Sponsorship
Opportunities

Sponsored Links
Cherokee Batting Range
RBI Tournaments
NEXTLVL 3.5
Gwinnett County Baseball
Georgia Stars
Precision Baseball
Georgia Octane
Perfect Game
Training Legends
Jr Chiefs Baseball
Middle School Matchup
Out of the Park
Service Baseball
Georgia Jackets
Quick Links
Cooperstown
Tournaments
Georgia Travel Baseball - NWBA Links
To Indexes

Cooperstown
Tournaments
Join NWBA Team Insurance
Georgia Travel Baseball - NWBA
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Search | FAQ
 All Forums
 NWBA Forums
 15-18 General Discussion
 Pitcher Only

Note: You must be registered in order to post a reply.
To register, click here. Registration is FREE!

Screensize:
UserName:
Password:
Format Mode:
Format: BoldItalicizedUnderlineStrikethrough Align LeftCenteredAlign Right Horizontal Rule Insert HyperlinkInsert Email Insert CodeInsert QuoteInsert List
   
Message:

* HTML is OFF
* Forum Code is ON
Smilies
Smile [:)] Big Smile [:D] Cool [8D] Blush [:I]
Tongue [:P] Evil [):] Wink [;)] Clown [:o)]
Black Eye [B)] Eight Ball [8] Frown [:(] Shy [8)]
Shocked [:0] Angry [:(!] Dead [xx(] Sleepy [|)]
Kisses [:X] Approve [^] Disapprove [V] Question [?]

   
   

T O P I C    R E V I E W
line_drive Posted - 08/20/2017 : 13:36:42
What is the normal age to become a pitcher only? Hearing a lot about this at 15u. Seems early, but I'm new at this age.
25   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
NorcrossBBall Posted - 10/05/2019 : 08:53:54
.....and I will add to my post and part of this thread.....my son in now a D2 college P commit....he's very excited. He had offers for low-end D1 but we passed...playing/game-time is still the key....and too many D1 kids sit...probably my son at min would be "developed" in D1 for one-two years.....D2 he will clearly play.

Anyway.....to part of this thread on Velo....I can tell you with 100% certainty recruiters don't seriosly look at kids as P until they hit minimally 85...88 is real #/floor of interest. My son throws 3 TRUE pitches with command and it was only the combo of 86 and 2400 spin rate that got him thru door...he's now 88. Anyway, watching all his teammates and others on hitting if your kid cannot handle 85mph FB then there is little/no chance to scale into college. This is very evident watching kids who are hitters struggle/collapse at 85+...and to be honest my son wears kids out at 86-88 on mound with even his 2nd CB pitch @ 76. My point is this....if your kid is P #1 item/focus is get his velo up. If your kid is positional player his defense matters ONLY if he can hit...and unless you can throw 85 in cage take him to DBATS and get their unlimited monthly plan and set machine to 85+ and have him work on it. While tee work and toft toss are needed to refine mechanics they are worthless unless he is seeing/practicing reps at 85+. When to do this ?.....here is the reality check.....when he hits 16 he should be working on hitting 85+ in cage. My comments are about getting to play college ball and the window is the Summer of his graduating Junior Year, rising Senior HS year.....that Summer b-ball (17U) is the make or break for him and college recruiting....you have until then to get him to the above Pitching or Hitting levels.

You can agree or disagree......but what I am stating is absolute reality with little/no exception......harsh message but one myself and my son had to embrace to do the work necessary. I can back up my inputs not only with my experiences but talks with countless other parents/kids that succeeded and those that didn't....discussions with recruiters and colleges coaches.....these are the bars to get over. Hope this helps.
NorcrossBBall Posted - 11/30/2018 : 18:44:38
First WarEagle !!!! ....although tough Football year.

An update since my son is HS Junior and continues to progress as "plus" hitter for HS but no way college level.....plus player at 3B but #1 kid on his ECB team is D1 kid.....my son looks awesome until D1 kid plays. LOL

My son work ethic cannot imagine anyone harder and now that he's gone thru puberty it is him pushing me....Wow. Anyway, no matter how much he gets better hitting and fielding which is competitive for PG/TC he doesn't "jump out" there....one of the pack. His pitching however continues to scale and top percent of his age group and competes against top tier 18U (he's 17U) kids fairly well...dominates 17U kids.

Why am I giving this Bio ?.......because for last six months been doing the college recruiting thing...especially the prospect camps. Like all baseball things most are money grabs.....have to do it for sure but there is a "reality" I wanted to share. This "reality" is that if your son wants to play at next level you need to assess where/how he stands out now....and where he is average or even less. At 16+ you need to shift the focus/reps to whatever he stands out at. You'd think this is no-brainer....but you'd be surprised how many parents resist thinking their son is next Derek Jeter at SS or Cowboys next QB. Allow your son to show his best talents and YES...hide his shortcomings....even if those "shortcomings" are being good b-ball player. To get to next level it is not about being "good" or "competitive"....it's about being able to distance yourself from others.

My feedback is "if" your son wants to truly play college ball then 16U and above you need to think different about what that means and how he scales.....which are hard decisions....it has been for me. Again, this thread was about being a "PO" but this logic can apply to any position and my point is the decision and hard work associated with that decision needs to be made at 16U...why ?....because by Fall Junior HS you will start the journey of trying to get you son recruited. I can tell you from countless tryouts, prospect camps, games, etc. that my son did very good in field and at plate but only time any coaches truly pay attention is when you separate yourself from the pack....for my son that is P....other kids obviously different tracks. Point is ID that with your son early enough to give him a chance to scale to level TRULY needed.
wareagle Posted - 08/07/2018 : 18:03:27
I tried to tell our coaches that I wanted my son to be a P.O. this past summer. They laughed. He plays almost every inning in the field and is an average hitter but really doesnít even focus on hitting anymore. He is going to college as a pitcher and even though he likes to think he may play both ways, he was really recruited as a pitcher and we both know he will realistically be a P.O. in college. I felt that the extra work/ throws in the field would possible have him less rested as a starting pitcher. They did move him from 3rd to 1st a lot to help with that as well as other reasons. In the end it all will work out and the game/ coaches will tell you when to hang up the bat.

Nor cross- truly not trying to be critical of the work out plan. Each kid is different. My only point is to try and make sure it remains a game and not a job at 16. If he is having fun and willing to work that hard then go for it. Mine currently does not work quite that hard, but I have told him that when he goes off to school to be prepared for it to get tougher and be more like a job because at that point they are somewhat paying him to be there .
CaCO3Girl Posted - 08/07/2018 : 15:00:03
quote:
Originally posted by NorcrossBBall

Like ALL things in life it is a balance.
Again, this thread has gone WAY off topic.
It was asked when you should consider going PO ?
"My" additions/comments were on the metrics/levels needed to stay roster (call it Varsity or 17U/18u) "competitive" (call it D1/D2 track) baseball.
Like all things in life there are trade-offs, sacrifices.....all great discussion topics for Soccer Moms and Dads to ponder....but baseball parents know.
My comments are simple.......if you are 15U/16U and truly have your sights/goals set on a "competitive" baseball path then you really should understand those metrics....they change DRAMATICALLY.
If so, then you better figure out the training regimen that will allow your son to scale....not fail.
All kids are different, thus, so are all regimens......but the metrics are the metrics....you want to argue them then all you are doing is taking a blind eye to reality.
I'll keep posting on the thread to keep beating the drum.....but I know the buzz saw kids run into when getting to these levels....it's up to parents to understand and make informed decision on what is best for their son and with realistic goals.



Two sides of the same PO coin are represented in this thread.

Your PO is fighting hard to stay in the line up with a vigorous routine. Mine has dropped down a team level so he can still hit, it's not the elite majors he was on but it's still a decent team that will play the PG events.

No two paths are the same in baseball or in life. I think they will both get to college baseball.

According to the PG stats my kid only got 12 plate appearances this year on the super duper team, his average was a 0.300, OBP was a 0.417....it's not bad, but it's not great. For pitching PG has him pitching 22.1 innings, ERA 0.6, 12 hits, and only 2 earned runs across all 22 innings.

He's a pitcher, he knows he's a pitcher, but he's going to enjoy his last year as a 2-way player, he doesn't want to be a PO.
NorcrossBBall Posted - 08/07/2018 : 10:47:30
Like ALL things in life it is a balance.
Again, this thread has gone WAY off topic.
It was asked when you should consider going PO ?
"My" additions/comments were on the metrics/levels needed to stay roster (call it Varsity or 17U/18u) "competitive" (call it D1/D2 track) baseball.
Like all things in life there are trade-offs, sacrifices.....all great discussion topics for Soccer Moms and Dads to ponder....but baseball parents know.
My comments are simple.......if you are 15U/16U and truly have your sights/goals set on a "competitive" baseball path then you really should understand those metrics....they change DRAMATICALLY.
If so, then you better figure out the training regimen that will allow your son to scale....not fail.
All kids are different, thus, so are all regimens......but the metrics are the metrics....you want to argue them then all you are doing is taking a blind eye to reality.
I'll keep posting on the thread to keep beating the drum.....but I know the buzz saw kids run into when getting to these levels....it's up to parents to understand and make informed decision on what is best for their son and with realistic goals.
CaCO3Girl Posted - 08/07/2018 : 10:00:10
quote:
Originally posted by Bravemom


Sonís priority is school and school, yet again school and then baseball. I am comfortable with this path.


My son's priorities are school, being a teenager, and then baseball. Yes he trains, yes he has a pitching coach, but I'm more interested in him being a kid than a world class athlete.

I can't help but notice that the world class athlete kids are dropping left and right from injuries. There is such a thing as over training and there is for sure such a thing as UNDER training. My son wants baseball to be his career, but I'm not letting him sacrifice his childhood to reach a goal that very few will ever reach.

If people's kids want to have s strict routine then more power to them. I have baseball pictures of my son, and pool pictures and renaissance festival pictures and birthday party pictures, and new car pictures....it's been a great year, Junior year will be even better I think.
CaCO3Girl Posted - 08/07/2018 : 07:10:14
quote:
Originally posted by wareagle

Really depends on the kid. I have seen kids work that hard and it make no difference. I have seen it benefit kids. But I have also seen kids do very little and still outperform thier peers. Thereís a fine line to doing too much. To maintain a schedule like that just make sure the kid is truly enjoying it. While I love baseball as much as anyone, it ends for everyone at some point. Make sure it is not the only thing in your kids( and your) life. Some kids can handle that kind of routine but not many will do it long term unless theyy truly love it!! And even then they need to be well rounded


+1
Bravemom Posted - 08/06/2018 : 23:11:01

Sonís priority is school and school, yet again school and then baseball. I am comfortable with this path.
wareagle Posted - 08/06/2018 : 17:32:15
Really depends on the kid. I have seen kids work that hard and it make no difference. I have seen it benefit kids. But I have also seen kids do very little and still outperform thier peers. Thereís a fine line to doing too much. To maintain a schedule like that just make sure the kid is truly enjoying it. While I love baseball as much as anyone, it ends for everyone at some point. Make sure it is not the only thing in your kids( and your) life. Some kids can handle that kind of routine but not many will do it long term unless theyy truly love it!! And even then they need to be well rounded
CaCO3Girl Posted - 08/06/2018 : 09:26:44
quote:
Originally posted by NorcrossBBall

I think the "question" of this thread should not be "what age" to become PO.....but rather when you should consider it.....age agnostic.
Gloveside put it great "when you no longer have a starting job anywhere else on field".
However, my additions are what it "takes" to stay roster....long before you can no longer get the starting job.
My son is rising 17U/Junior and he has struggled his whole life on batting.....excellent fielder and his pitching has been top tier.
I looked/embraced what I saw it took to continue as a roster player.....15U and above....simple....hitting.
So, the real question here is not "what age" but what "skill" directs PO or roster ?
My feedback is very simple....if you son wants to continue as a roster player he needs to hit....and the very first filter on that is handling Fast Balls.
You can argue the speeds, the reps, etc......I know what "I" see and my son needs....but my point is your son needs to be in cages taking high speed swings off a machine....not 40mph soft toss.
If he is not doing this he is behind the curve and will NOT scale.
The flip side is also true, you want your son to be PO....by end Junior season he better be throwing 88mph FB, curve 75+. He also better have strike zone command with 3 "true" pitches. To accomplish these lofty goals you young son needs to turn into young adult...and his training regimen needs to reflect his goals. Again, I'm not talking about "participation" level baseball which there are many teams/leagues kids (and adults) can play in....I'm talking "competition" level baseball......meaning kids wanting to be on D1/D2 path...or even start on their HS Varsity....assuming their Varsity team is worth a flip.

Let me give you idea of my son's daily workout regimen...EVERY day.
Wake up.....for 16yr old this is tough to do...so YES, I put it on list as an accomplishment. LMAO.
Run to gym 2 miles, Weight training or speed and agility class with trainer, Run home from gym 2 miles.
Go to field late afternoon....hit him 200+ grounders....and you can bet they are DRILLED grounders...hard as possible.
Every evening go to DBATS and set machine to 88mph....hits 150-300 balls.....qty depends on how he feels and does....quality over quantity.
Every third day we take off fielding/hitting and do pitching lesson.
Once week we do long toss at field for arm strength improvement.
The above sound crazy ? ..........hate to break it to you but this is a training regimen outlined by many professional baseball trainers.
https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw69.htm

Agree.....disagree.....doesn't really matter to me....the facts are the facts and if you talk to any recruiter he will outline the above. If you doubt my viewpoint on skill levels/metrics.....just go to PG pay $10 and watch a 16U or 17U GA Jackets, ECB Astros, Yankees, Colt45, RoadRunner, 643, or equivalent team (not talking lame low-end teams) games and you'll see the level of play needed. It's a harsh reality....but the sooner you embrace it and gear your son in proper direction the better. After 14U your son is in the deep end of pool.......he'd better learn how to swim....not just tread water.



Good luck to you and your son....I really do hope it pays off for him.

My son and family are of a different mindset.
KentMurphy Posted - 08/05/2018 : 21:32:48
quote:
Originally posted by NorcrossBBall

...After 14U your son is in the deep end of pool.......he'd better learn how to swim....not just tread water.



Great wording! Love this.
NorcrossBBall Posted - 08/05/2018 : 09:27:36
I think the "question" of this thread should not be "what age" to become PO.....but rather when you should consider it.....age agnostic.
Gloveside put it great "when you no longer have a starting job anywhere else on field".
However, my additions are what it "takes" to stay roster....long before you can no longer get the starting job.
My son is rising 17U/Junior and he has struggled his whole life on batting.....excellent fielder and his pitching has been top tier.
I looked/embraced what I saw it took to continue as a roster player.....15U and above....simple....hitting.
So, the real question here is not "what age" but what "skill" directs PO or roster ?
My feedback is very simple....if you son wants to continue as a roster player he needs to hit....and the very first filter on that is handling Fast Balls.
You can argue the speeds, the reps, etc......I know what "I" see and my son needs....but my point is your son needs to be in cages taking high speed swings off a machine....not 40mph soft toss.
If he is not doing this he is behind the curve and will NOT scale.
The flip side is also true, you want your son to be PO....by end Junior season he better be throwing 88mph FB, curve 75+. He also better have strike zone command with 3 "true" pitches. To accomplish these lofty goals you young son needs to turn into young adult...and his training regimen needs to reflect his goals. Again, I'm not talking about "participation" level baseball which there are many teams/leagues kids (and adults) can play in....I'm talking "competition" level baseball......meaning kids wanting to be on D1/D2 path...or even start on their HS Varsity....assuming their Varsity team is worth a flip.

Let me give you idea of my son's daily workout regimen...EVERY day.
Wake up.....for 16yr old this is tough to do...so YES, I put it on list as an accomplishment. LMAO.
Run to gym 2 miles, Weight training or speed and agility class with trainer, Run home from gym 2 miles.
Go to field late afternoon....hit him 200+ grounders....and you can bet they are DRILLED grounders...hard as possible.
Every evening go to DBATS and set machine to 88mph....hits 150-300 balls.....qty depends on how he feels and does....quality over quantity.
Every third day we take off fielding/hitting and do pitching lesson.
Once week we do long toss at field for arm strength improvement.
The above sound crazy ? ..........hate to break it to you but this is a training regimen outlined by many professional baseball trainers.
https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw69.htm

Agree.....disagree.....doesn't really matter to me....the facts are the facts and if you talk to any recruiter he will outline the above. If you doubt my viewpoint on skill levels/metrics.....just go to PG pay $10 and watch a 16U or 17U GA Jackets, ECB Astros, Yankees, Colt45, RoadRunner, 643, or equivalent team (not talking lame low-end teams) games and you'll see the level of play needed. It's a harsh reality....but the sooner you embrace it and gear your son in proper direction the better. After 14U your son is in the deep end of pool.......he'd better learn how to swim....not just tread water.
line_drive Posted - 08/02/2018 : 12:20:42
I asked this question at tryout time before 15u because I kept hearing talk of pitcher only. To me it just seemed early as I had never been through it before. My son is not a PO. He may be some day, but he wasnít ready to nor did he need to give up playing the full game.

That being said, I like how the thread turned as it gave me some good info whether or not we all agree on the speeds or the number of daily swings needed. (I will say we played a team at the 15u PG who had 3 pitchers that all threw every FB pitch over 80 at us. One kids was always over 85. So it is out there.) Consistently hitting hard out of the infield is my sonís weakest area and he knows it and knows it is going to take constant work and growth. He went to hit at the HS regularly this summer as they leave the cages open and have a pitching machine for the kids. Like all sports, you always need to work to improve.
CaCO3Girl Posted - 08/02/2018 : 10:01:20
quote:
Originally posted by NorcrossBBall

There is no doubt there are kids/P that throw lower speeds.....BUT....the essence of this thread is when should my kid give up roster efforts.
Not to put too fine a point on this, or seem to harsh, but there is BIG difference not only in 16U to 17U....but also what I call "participation" baseball vs. "competition" baseball.
There are TONS of teams, leagues, tournaments on the former.....and it becomes more about kid having fun, etc.....but not to be too harsh....he last days will be thru HS....call it a hobby.
On other side, if you believe your kid is or wants to scale into HS Varsity and/or 17U/18U "competitive" and perhaps college and not be able to deal with 85mph (at min) FB you are in for a shock.
It really depends on the goals you have for your son to determine which apply.
My point.....and ONLY point....if you want you son to continue to scale in "competitive" baseball past 16U you better have him work on "at speed" hitting.
Unless you have neighbor who is x-P that can throw 85+ then the only real solution is machine BP.....I use DBATS....but have also bought own P machine among several of us Dads.
If you are arguing my logic/need then clearly you are not doing this training yet.....and my post is not going to convince you of it....to be honest I resisted as well.

So....I'll say it flat out......and those whom don't agree will not like the candor.
If you/son are targeting Varsity and/or 17U/18U PG level baseball and/or beyond....and you are not getting your son in cages at 80mph (goal really should be really 85mph) machine BP as rising 16U you are setting him up for failure.....that simple.



The question was what is the normal age to become a PO. Not how to avoid becoming a PO. Also, for MANY kids being a PO is their goal. I've seen many kids be very happy in that role, and I've seen kids try their hardest to remain on the roster, to their detriment. The bottom line is if you are considered to be one of the most valuable pitchers you are going to be a PO.

The idea that a D1 college will actively recruit a 2 way player for their roster is not present in this current recruiting reality. That player will be a PO or a position player. D2 it's more common, but I have to say if you have the chops to be a PO and you want to play in college then embrace the PO role! Most college rosters contain around 50% pitchers...do the math. Your best shot at getting to the next level is to be good at your job.

As for when it becomes common, it was common at 15u. However, if your kid doesn't want to be a PO and doesn't plan on playing in college then go to a lower team so the kid can have fun actually playing.
NorcrossBBall Posted - 08/01/2018 : 07:33:59
There is no doubt there are kids/P that throw lower speeds.....BUT....the essence of this thread is when should my kid give up roster efforts.
Not to put too fine a point on this, or seem to harsh, but there is BIG difference not only in 16U to 17U....but also what I call "participation" baseball vs. "competition" baseball.
There are TONS of teams, leagues, tournaments on the former.....and it becomes more about kid having fun, etc.....but not to be too harsh....he last days will be thru HS....call it a hobby.
On other side, if you believe your kid is or wants to scale into HS Varsity and/or 17U/18U "competitive" and perhaps college and not be able to deal with 85mph (at min) FB you are in for a shock.
It really depends on the goals you have for your son to determine which apply.
My point.....and ONLY point....if you want you son to continue to scale in "competitive" baseball past 16U you better have him work on "at speed" hitting.
Unless you have neighbor who is x-P that can throw 85+ then the only real solution is machine BP.....I use DBATS....but have also bought own P machine among several of us Dads.
If you are arguing my logic/need then clearly you are not doing this training yet.....and my post is not going to convince you of it....to be honest I resisted as well.

So....I'll say it flat out......and those whom don't agree will not like the candor.
If you/son are targeting Varsity and/or 17U/18U PG level baseball and/or beyond....and you are not getting your son in cages at 80mph (goal really should be really 85mph) machine BP as rising 16U you are setting him up for failure.....that simple.
BREAMKING Posted - 07/31/2018 : 17:43:24
caco I just did same as you 15u kid played 16u teamed played mix of 16u and 17u tournaments. big difference between the two for sure. The rising sr. I would say avg speed was 78-81. 16u was exact what you said around 74 sure there were some in the 80's but not a lot of them. Last week did see a 16u 87 which was impressive but most of the time it was anywhere from 71-81. Big arms do not grow on trees for sure no matter what parents want to think. I guess after years of coaching and watch bottom line is there are more teams than pitchers in our area for sure.
CaCO3Girl Posted - 07/31/2018 : 09:58:26
I just sat through a summer of PG games at 15u and 16u with both bracket play and not. Are there teams with 15u kids throwing 80+ yes, but the majority of 15u kids are throwing more like 70-75, only the elite are throwing more. Yes, the Astros and such have kids throwing 80+, maybe even 90+, but what I said was that the majority of kids won't see it. If you are playing a team that has a horrible record are you throwing your 80mph pitcher...nope, you are throwing your 70mph kid to save the 80+ kid for the astros and such.

PG stats: Average speed for 2022 = 71, 2021 = 74, 2020 = 77, 2019 = 79

My son also goes to a 7A school that goes deep into the state playoffs. What he saw at JV was 75mph, one time he saw 87, but it was an anomaly. Yes, you can see 90 on Varsity.

I'm of the opinion that each player has to ask himself, "Am I better than 90% of the hitters on this team?", then "Am i better than 90% of the pitchers on this team?"...it's rare the answer will be yes to both. If your gift is pitching I say go with it. My son is learning fast that he's a much more valuable 80+ pitcher than a middle to end of the batting order guy.
wareagle Posted - 07/31/2018 : 07:12:10
If you watch a lot of the games at the 16, 17u level. It becomes obvious to me that the pitching is better than the hitting in general. Not only the velocity, but especially the breakingg stuff. So, I agree, you better be ready to hit the fastball cuz the other stuff gets nasty at times. Not always, but if you look at most scores, the pitching is beating the hitting between good teams.

I think this changes somewhat at the college level and the hitting catches up to the pitching on average
NorcrossBBall Posted - 07/30/2018 : 22:10:39
My thoughts on the hitting is that you are probably better off taking 30-40 quality

Agree....somehow the thread got sideways on the 300 swings. Quality is always better than quantity. The point of my comment was to relay what it takes to no longer be a "roster" player....ie., start down that PO track. I know of what I speak because my son is right now in that grey area. Watching how this progresses it's clear the metrics...call it filters....that get tighter and tighter for kids to walk thru to next level. When you hit 16U little boy ball is over....at least at the "competition" level....not the "participation" level....plenty of mid level to low level teams and in-kind tournaments serving those efforts. BUT...for kids wanting to make it to true Varsity HS level......Junior/Senior....and or 17U/18U competitive travel....the "bar" to stay a roster player centers/moves heavily to hitting. The problem/reason is the guys on the mounds are no longer "throwers" but true pitchers....with true off speed, breaking balls all with command of the zone. NOW...add the fact of increased speed you can see why this year is first year MLB has more strike outs than hits. My point is a very grim reality check for those 15U kids (and parents) that are wondering if their son can continue competitive baseball. I find it that the understanding of the first filter of what 16U/17U/18U kids will see just on FB velo is surprising....in fact shocking to kids....and parents. I can tell you my son played 16U this past summer at TC tournaments and he saw 76-81...in line with arguments above. He also played PG....bracket play....and at 16U he saw nothing less than 85...to be honest mostly 88mph. These were not PG max velo posts but registering pitch after pitch on the board. I watched many 17U games during down time between our games....88mph was a min...some low 90s. Take a look at Landon Sims who is rising senior at South Forsyth....just hit 97mph this Summer....as Junior was 94mph.
https://www.perfectgame.org/players/playerprofile.aspx?ID=408527
BTW...he JUST decided to go "PO"...gave up his OF/hitting dream.

My point ?....answering the question of this thread....you want your son to have chance to stay "roster" ?....he better be in cages off machine taking hacks at 80/85/88....30 or 300 take your pick...but if this is not the level he is working at his days are numbered as 16U/JV kid and forget about roster player in competitive Varsity/17U-18U. Those are the harsh but true facts........not my "opinion"...but facts. Don't believe me....go to PG team site and start looking at P for top teams...those are kids that will move forward. Still not convinced ?...pay $10 and sit one afternoon at PG for 16U and/or 17U bracket play games. Other option, do nothing, glide along but the reality check will hit you like it did me. However, I've embraced the reality and my son is working hard on it (daily)...not sure if he'll make it or not...work in progress...but it is crystal clear level he needs to attain.

BTW....War Eagle !!!!
wareagle Posted - 07/30/2018 : 18:07:31
As far as Being a P.O. we were always told that when it gets to the point that you couldnít hit against yourself pitching, the itís time to retire the bat and just pitch. Until then, keep swinging it
wareagle Posted - 07/30/2018 : 17:58:01
I think the speeds are not far off in the better tournaments from my experience. Keep in mind that sites like PG list top velocity. Most kids average 3-5 mph lower but can ramp it up at times.
My thoughts on the hitting is that you are probably better off taking 30-40 quality, game type swings against pitchers or machines. Any reps beyond that should only be soft toss or tee work to tweek mechanics. No way a kid can take 300 game type swings and maintain mechanics. Probably does as much harm as it does good.
Jmho
NorcrossBBall Posted - 07/30/2018 : 16:02:31
"I would estimate you are about 5-10 mph off from what most teams see during those ages."

No offense but this is simply not true. I'm not sure what "teams" you are "seeing"....but I can tell you that if you aren't prepping your kid at 80mph for 15U, 85mph 16U, and 88mph+ at 17U then you are behind the curve. Sure.......tons of kids/team that aren't at those levels......but they soon will no longer continue and face the harsh reality of what truly competitive 15U/16U/17U baseball is.
I'm not telling anyone here to have their kid take 300+ BP swings a day.....what I'm saying with 100% confidence and accuracy...is you better be able to handle speeds I've listed by age group or your kids days are numbered as a batter.......which means as a roster player....which means PO or go find another sport. If you want to argue those facts....it is easy.......just look on Team Pages on PG site...go to GA Jackets, RoadRunners, Astros, Colt45, etc. and click on their Pitchers....check out their speeds. Facts are facts.....but people don't want to see this reality.....more like "hey my little Johnny has been excellent batter since he was knee high"......Great, terrific, congratulations to you......but THIS thread was about being PO or not and what inflection point drives that.

Bottom line, everyone has their opinion but Atlanta Travel and high end HS baseball is filled with elite players.....and past 14U the filter who can hit and who sits is quite easy to see....just sit thru couple of PG tournaments (especially bracket play) or AAAAA+ HS baseball and you'll get the reality check.
CaCO3Girl Posted - 07/30/2018 : 13:27:18
I would encourage you to calm it down. Not all teams are seeing those speeds, I would estimate you are about 5-10 mph off from what most teams see during those ages.

I know many top ranked kids, they aren't swinging 300 times a day, most aren't even swinging it 100 times a day. There is more to swinging a bat during a game than just doing it 300 times a day for practice.
NorcrossBBall Posted - 07/30/2018 : 12:26:27
Anything can cause injury. I was triple sport (Football, Baseball, Basketball) in my HS days.........long time ago in galaxy far-far away. However, with the TONS of hits I took at QB and delivered at CB you know where I broke bones ?......basketball. My son's HS the #1 injury sport is LaCrosse. I'll bet you more kids get pushed out of BB from concussions at catcher by foul balls to face mask than the "repetition shoulder injury"....obviously, the BIG one in BB is P and elbow. Point is....you must be careful...no doubt. My post above was not about the "reps" but for this thread what it takes to become a hitter....so to not get off topic.....I know, too late.......here is my point.....

Don't care if your son 14U and below is a Bronx Bomber...doesn't mean squat. Put him in a cage at 14U are 75mph....at 15U at 80+, 16U 85mph+. If he can't learn to hit at those speeds he will not go far in HS and beyond. A lot of great wonder kids at 14U and below at plate when pitches are sub 70mph and no one has real breaking stuff. Bottom line, it is a skill and art to hit in Varsity or high level travel baseball.....and unless you have neighborhood friend that can throw off mound to your son at 80+ then get a machine or go to DBATS. So, in summary.....you want to know if your kid needs to move to PO ?......Gloveside2 put it great.....I make it simpler...too many kids can field......it is all about hitting.....if your kid at 15U+ can't hit 80mph either get working on it !!!!!....or get reality check on his ability to "roster".
CaCO3Girl Posted - 07/30/2018 : 09:16:06
quote:
Originally posted by NorcrossBBall

Gloveside2 put it perfectly but I recently had a coach tell me........keep playing all that you can until you are not good enough to play that portion any more.

One note, been working my son's batting......he's way above average 16U P, average MI.....and was horrible batter thru 14U.
Anyway, I've seen it over and over and over with my son and all kids.
Bad Mechanics that work at 65mph do not at 75mph, 85mph needs good mechanics AND timing. 90+ needs both of those, tons of game time reps, AND also ability to "see" the pitch.
The ONLY, and I mean ONLY, way to have kid scale (that isn't just a freak) is to have them hit off high speed....85+....batting machine.
If you are not doing this almost daily the kid has no chance to scale.
Coaches & Turtle BP is never going to replicate this...or even close.
I've seen so many "BP" hitters that my son on mound makes look stupid I can't tell you.
My point.....rather than give up on your kid....when he is going 14U upward...are you really giving him the training to succeed ?
I can tell you from my own experience my son has gone from "terrible" batter at sub-70 to exceptional at 80, and can handle almost 90 with no fear and aggressiveness.
This comes from the reps and confidence of hitting 300+ balls day off 88mph machine.

My two cents.



300 balls hit daily?

I'd like you to read something written by Ryan Monti, PT, DPT, SCS Sports and Orthopedic Physical Therapy, Nationwide Children's Hospital, Columbus, OH.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4675191/

EXCERPT:

Due to the high axial trunk velocity that occurs during the baseball swing, injuries can occur at the lumbar spine and abdominal musculature as well. Ten percent of the injuries among Major League Baseball players occurred in the trunk, and of these, half occurred in the abdominal musculature.8 Other literature has shown that out of the reported 69 cases of symptomatic lumbar disc herniation, 58% of these injuries at the professional level were related to hitting.15 Even though throwing causes most injuries in the upper extremity, the high velocity produced by the shoulders during the baseball swing combined with repetition can cause injury. A syndrome known as batter's shoulder occurs due to continual exposure to the baseball swing producing posterior instability of the lead shoulder; but the incidence of this injury is comparatively low.16,17 Even though most baseball and softball injuries are not a direct result of hitting, there is not a segment in the body that does not play a significant role in the player's swing. Much of the clinicians thought process is using regional interdependence to restore proper throwing mechanics as well as a controlled return to throwing. What many clinicians forget is that those injured players will have to return to hitting as well.

Georgia Travel Baseball - NWBA © 2000-20 NWBA Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000