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T O P I C    R E V I E W
GeneralsCoach Posted - 03/11/2013 : 09:05:33
Why does Triple Crown have pitching rules that aren't enforced? Both 14U champions in Division 2 (Gold and Bronze winners) had pitchers who violated the pitching rules in the 4th game this weekend at the Forsyth Slugfest. Why have them if the TD is just going to look the other way and allow the teams to continue?
25   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
nwgadad Posted - 04/24/2013 : 12:20:57
I just think it is crazy that coaches even attempt to do this. Who comes up with this stuff? They should be banned from coaching and any titles won should be forfeited. And I am sure some/if not all of the parents know about it. Turn yourself in! teach teh kids a real lesson. It is called the TRUTH.
BaseballMom6 Posted - 04/24/2013 : 11:27:09
soccer has used individual player cards with photos for more than 30 years. We had them way back when I played. If you changed teams or played for a different team for a tournament, you had to get your player card from your current coach and bring it to the other coach. You had 1 unique card for the entire year. No card, no play. Birth certificates were verified by the leagues and the cards were your proof of age, the photo was proof it belonged to the player. The referee checked each card to each player prior to each game. I have always been surprised that Baseball has not done the same.
PATbb Posted - 04/24/2013 : 10:34:31
NWGADAD, i am pretty certain Georgia Soccer has this where all of the kids have a photo ID with # that is kept with team manager and used prior to each game where the field referee will use as a roll call confirming eligibility for a game. It is not always looked at for each and every single game but for most tournaments the system is used and required to always stay with the team.


quote:
Originally posted by nwgadad

What do they tell the kids when this happens? Oh I want you to be able to pitch more because I don't have the confidence in anyone else? Win at all costs? If that has happened was it brought up? Do we need to start giving the kids ID's? Does the umpire not get the kids names and say, weren't you a different number earlier?

jacjacatk Posted - 04/23/2013 : 22:16:31
quote:
Originally posted by nwgadad

What do they tell the kids when this happens? Oh I want you to be able to pitch more because I don't have the confidence in anyone else? Win at all costs? If that has happened was it brought up? Do we need to start giving the kids ID's? Does the umpire not get the kids names and say, weren't you a different number earlier?



I can't tell half the kids on my son's team (all of whom I've known for a couple of years) apart from a distance, I wouldn't expect an umpire to be able to catch a number switch between similar looking players, at least not all the time.

That said, I have no clue what they tell the kids, or how they get them to play along well enough not to give it away unless they actually practice it from the very beginning of the season.
nwgadad Posted - 04/23/2013 : 10:44:39
What do they tell the kids when this happens? Oh I want you to be able to pitch more because I don't have the confidence in anyone else? Win at all costs? If that has happened was it brought up? Do we need to start giving the kids ID's? Does the umpire not get the kids names and say, weren't you a different number earlier?
ChinMusic Posted - 04/23/2013 : 10:19:23
excoach12, What age group was that?? Was this reported to the TD?? That's crazy!!
zwndad Posted - 04/23/2013 : 09:29:53
Excoach12, I think that coach should be banned from that governing body's tournaments. There is absolutely no excuse in the world for that.
quote:
Originally posted by excoach12

What do you do about a team who has a pitcher or two switch their jerseys so they get extra innings to pitch? In the pitching logs it looks like two different pitchers but in reality the same kid pitched.

ngred10 Posted - 04/23/2013 : 09:10:44
I think the team should be disqualified from that tournament and also from any future tournament for that season. The coaches should also be banned from coaching. That is shameful, and teaches the kids that cheating is OK to win. It amazes me what some coaches will do to win a trophy.
excoach12 Posted - 04/22/2013 : 22:20:24
What do you do about a team who has a pitcher or two switch their jerseys so they get extra innings to pitch? In the pitching logs it looks like two different pitchers but in reality the same kid pitched.
ngred10 Posted - 04/22/2013 : 10:29:49
We saw this happen again this weekend at the Triple Crown Tournament. The real question is how can Triple Crown have a rule where the penalty for the violation is at the discretion of the tournament director. I would think you would want the penalty spelled out so no one has any gripes after. Sounds like in the above scenario the team forfeited, in this scenario, player was ejected for same issue.
F2202 Posted - 03/27/2013 : 03:22:42
quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa

Papa thinks that Tony should appoint him the Pitching Police. That's the job that I have been waiting for.



LOL
GeneralsCoach Posted - 03/25/2013 : 08:09:43
Have also seen last 2 tournaments where there are pitching limits but no innings for pitchers are posted. What are you supposed to do then? This is a very grey area that needs to be addressed.
watchingbaseball Posted - 03/24/2013 : 11:15:39
quote:
Originally posted by Peanutsr

Wow. Two hundred and eighty six teams in the Slugfest and it should be the tournament directors responsibility to monitor innings kids have pitched. Why not make it their responsibility to make sure teams don't bat out of order, or to check every bat in every kids bags to make sure everyone is using a legal bat?
I'm just a baseball dad and I pull up pitching records for every team we play in bracket play before our games. Just pull up the stats before each game and see who is close on innings. Really not necessary to "pull out a laptop on every pitching change", I just use my phone. Takes about two minutes.


THE SYSTEM SHOULD SEND UP A RED FLAG WHEN A PITCHER IS OUT OF INNINGS,THAT WAY NOBODY HAS TO POLICE PITCHING.
IT HAPPENS IN U-TRIP TOURNAMENTS ALSO, NOBODY WANTS TO BE THE POLICE.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND PAPA WOULD BE A GREAT POLICE CHIEF FOR TC AND U-TRIP.
zwndad Posted - 03/18/2013 : 11:35:56
Agree with Peanutsr. If you're really concerned about your opponents' pitching limits, you can have the pitching chart pulled up on a browser window on your phone. You could probably check in under 2 minutes if you're prepared.

And there's no way it should be the TD's responsibility. Those are easy things for coaches to check before and during the game. And they don't come up that often.
Peanutsr Posted - 03/17/2013 : 18:40:12
Wow. Two hundred and eighty six teams in the Slugfest and it should be the tournament directors responsibility to monitor innings kids have pitched. Why not make it their responsibility to make sure teams don't bat out of order, or to check every bat in every kids bags to make sure everyone is using a legal bat?
I'm just a baseball dad and I pull up pitching records for every team we play in bracket play before our games. Just pull up the stats before each game and see who is close on innings. Really not necessary to "pull out a laptop on every pitching change", I just use my phone. Takes about two minutes.
luvbaseball49 Posted - 03/17/2013 : 17:14:59
Got it, so no forfeit like in USSSA. I like the ejection better than the forfeit.
in_the_know Posted - 03/16/2013 : 19:33:22
quote:
Originally posted by luvbaseball49

What is the Triple Crown penalty for violating pitching rules if one is discovered?



Read the thread above . . . .
luvbaseball49 Posted - 03/16/2013 : 11:15:55
What is the Triple Crown penalty for violating pitching rules if one is discovered?
bmoser Posted - 03/15/2013 : 15:31:31
Cherokee Thunder, thanks for your post. Well handled.
HeatCoach Posted - 03/15/2013 : 13:32:25
Signing the card only confirms the number of innings pitched for that one game. Internet access is needed to see what the pitcher did in all the previous games. An opposing coach may have checked pitching charts on the web, but what if you are playing back to back games, do you know what kids from the other team just pitched in their last game?
Cherokee Thunder Posted - 03/15/2013 : 12:51:46
Sorry it took so long to post but I have been in LA all week and just had a chance to read all of the comments. I know these forums can provide for great reading and education but they can also become forums of misinformation where folks stay on topic and then stray off topic.

As manager of the 14U Cherokee Titans we violated last weekend’s pitching rules by mistake. Our pitcher threw one pitch in the 7th inning and we the coaches started talking as we realized what had happened. No excuses to be made; as we were penalized and should have been penalized for this huge oversight.

No attempt was made to win at all cost or to use and abuse a pitcher. Just as players make errors, umpires blow calls etc... Coaches can make errors and mistakes and in this instance it was both a learning and embarrassing error.

After the game, I apologized to the umpires, the on site TD, the other team’s coaches / players and then apologized to my team and parents. This is my 4th year of coaching 14U baseball and this was the first time and hopefully last time an instance like this pops up. This mistake should not take away the play that both teams exhibited prior and after this instance.

Mistakes happen and not everyone is out to cheat or over use pitchers to win at all cost. I apologize again for this situation.
luvbaseball49 Posted - 03/14/2013 : 21:04:11
I dont think the Tournament Director should be responsible for any pitching infractions. The coaches sign the cards and TC post the results, thats enough. The problem is with the PARENTS who sit by and watch coaches throw the crap out of their kids arms.
GeneralsCoach Posted - 03/12/2013 : 11:47:26
quote:
Originally posted by TripleCrownAdministrator

Generals Coach and In the Know:

The violation was caught by Triple Crown in the 14u Bronze Bracket game during play. After the first pitch was thrown by the pitcher, the player and the coach were ejected from that game for the violation.

The violation in the 14u Division 2 Gold game was not brought to our attention until 2 games after the violation had occured. Had this matter been brought to our attention during the game or even shortly after the game concluded, we would have had the chance to rectify the pitching violation. This would have included ejections or even a forfeit of the baseball game.

We had over 286 teams participate in the 2013 event along with 587 games played across the board. We apologize for missing this one issue. We also post the pitching for all of the teams to view. Not one of the teams (including the team that they played) let us know that the violation had occured in the 14u D2 Gold Game.

Thank you again to all that played this weekend and we wish you luck this 2013 spring baseball season.

Tony VonDolteren
Triple Crown Baseball



Personally I think the infractions should be more spelled out. You run good tourneys, and its hard to believe coaches knowingly violated pitching rules in a 14U tourney, but "at the discretion of the TD" is really open ended. Off subject, but 7 innings for a 14U weekend tourney where a pitch is an inning is too strict. What is the goal here? If it's preserving arms that isn't doing it. A kid can pitch 50 pitches in 5 innings or 50 in 2 innings. If it's to ensure teams with deep pitching staffs and just 2-3 arms advance to the championship, then not catching the infractions when the data is input into the system is a failure on the TD. If Tiger Woods signs his scorecard showing a wrong score, he is DQd. Its not the responsibility of his opponent to catch the error, nor is at the discretion of the golf TD to decide whether he really meant to sign that score or not. Break the rules, face the consequences.
GeneralsCoach Posted - 03/12/2013 : 11:29:22
Looking at the outcome of game 4 for both teams, and having no insight as to when runs scored, etc., if would appear that the gold game 4 team was won handily and that the infraction likely had little effect on that game.

[/quote]


Actually at the top of the 7th it was 5-3. Had a different pitcher come in the 7th, who knows. Could have been a better pitcher, could have been a pitcher the other team could have pounced on. Hopefully everyone learns a lesson from this.
GeneralsCoach Posted - 03/12/2013 : 11:21:44
Newbie Baseball Mom is spot on.

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