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GAFarmer
90 Posts |
 Posted - 06/04/2012 : 13:43:57
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| Saw a lot of argued calls and some constantly challenging umps at the TC this past weekend. When is too much too much? |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 17:52:02
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| So you probably witnessed the horrible officiating as well?!?!?!?....There was one umpire(young guy) who let everyone know they entire game the he was in charge..(acted like a goon more than once) and the other umpire who would let out the Ric Flair WOOOOOOOOO!!!!! everytime there was a strikeout(he probably thought we wanted to see him)....Strike zones were inconsistent and I can't remember a tourney with as many blown calls this season.....Every game I watched had SEVERAL really really bad calls... |
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Bob Balker
456 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 21:55:04
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| Not in this age group but the one constant across all age groups in a great TC Ga State tournament was: CONSISTENTLY HORRIBLE UMPIRES !!! |
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yankeedad
133 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 22:07:24
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| It was really bad on Field 1...Old guy on Field 4 was pretty good though |
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GAFarmer
90 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 22:18:16
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I am a retired ump. Games I saw were good, not perfect but descent. Nothin is perfect. Tend to be issue swith the youngins.
ERveryone has to deal with the umps. Some teams get a raw deal having to have bad crews for mult games but that is baseball. Many teams make adjustments and coaches, catchers and players butter the biscuit.
quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
So you probably witnessed the horrible officiating as well?!?!?!?....There was one umpire(young guy) who let everyone know they entire game the he was in charge..(acted like a goon more than once) and the other umpire who would let out the Ric Flair WOOOOOOOOO!!!!! everytime there was a strikeout(he probably thought we wanted to see him)....Strike zones were inconsistent and I can't remember a tourney with as many blown calls this season.....Every game I watched had SEVERAL really really bad calls...
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 22:48:44
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| I don't expect them to be perfect, I don't think many do. The amount of money we spend on the tourneys I at least expect the umpires to be consistent. We have actually had a majority of our games well officiated this season, but this weekend was below avg to say the least. Glad none of the calls really hurt us, just a shame we can't get some better guys out there for our age groups. |
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aginga
25 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 00:40:04
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Our team (and our opponents) had to make the adjustment of a large strike zone with one particular umpire consistently calling strikes on outside pitches a foot outside to right handed batters. Had this umpire crew early and late on Saturday. Homeplate umpire never rotated out to be a field umpire all day....6 games behind the plate. quote:
Originally posted by GAFarmer
I am a retired ump. Games I saw were good, not perfect but descent. Nothin is perfect. Tend to be issue swith the youngins.
ERveryone has to deal with the umps. Some teams get a raw deal having to have bad crews for mult games but that is baseball. Many teams make adjustments and coaches, catchers and players butter the biscuit.
quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
So you probably witnessed the horrible officiating as well?!?!?!?....There was one umpire(young guy) who let everyone know they entire game the he was in charge..(acted like a goon more than once) and the other umpire who would let out the Ric Flair WOOOOOOOOO!!!!! everytime there was a strikeout(he probably thought we wanted to see him)....Strike zones were inconsistent and I can't remember a tourney with as many blown calls this season.....Every game I watched had SEVERAL really really bad calls...
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GAFarmer
90 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 00:49:56
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You sound like an independent league head coach and half of the minor leauge and mlb guys I know. It does sound like you want perfection. It is 12 yo baseball if you want them to be better and or perfect go to church or the beach on Sunday instead of a baseball tournament. I would be happy to give you a great GA beach that displays perfection. 
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Originally posted by Spartan4
I don't expect them to be perfect, I don't think many do. The amount of money we spend on the tourneys I at least expect the umpires to be consistent. We have actually had a majority of our games well officiated this season, but this weekend was below avg to say the least. Glad none of the calls really hurt us, just a shame we can't get some better guys out there for our age groups.
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Edited by - GAFarmer on 06/05/2012 09:14:52 |
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ivpartner
80 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 07:36:30
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| I have watched both my sons play travel ball for 4 years now from AA to Major. Umpires vary so widely it is really amusing. We have some very good TD's out there who want to run good tournaments with quality umpires. It would be nice if for major state tournaments, TD's could get more of the cream of the crop in umpires. We played at the TC state tourney this past weekend. Our team had 4 games with the same crew unfortunately for us. One of the crew was a very young man who consistently just flat missed calls for BOTH sides. The older umpire behind the plate had a good command of the game BUT refused to allow our coach to discuss or approach him with questions. Just ridiculous. He walked a batter once on 3 balls. Everyone in the stands on both sides had the count but the umpire. That batter was ours so the other team was punished for that miss. |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 12:10:26
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quote:
Originally posted by GAFarmer
I am a retired ump. Games I saw were good, not perfect but descent. Nothin is perfect. Tend to be issue swith the youngins.
ERveryone has to deal with the umps. Some teams get a raw deal having to have bad crews for mult games but that is baseball. Many teams make adjustments and coaches, catchers and players butter the biscuit.
quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
So you probably witnessed the horrible officiating as well?!?!?!?....There was one umpire(young guy) who let everyone know they entire game the he was in charge..(acted like a goon more than once) and the other umpire who would let out the Ric Flair WOOOOOOOOO!!!!! everytime there was a strikeout(he probably thought we wanted to see him)....Strike zones were inconsistent and I can't remember a tourney with as many blown calls this season.....Every game I watched had SEVERAL really really bad calls...
I agree that nobody is perfect, but if the umpire was acting like Ric Flair on Strikeouts that is 100% uncalled for. And as for coaches wanting perfection, I doubt they want that, but they DO WANT US to do our best. The kids, regardless of age, deserve that we give them our best on every pitch and every play. If an umpire cant do that, we should not be doing it.
The 12 YO is my absolute favorite age to call...and I hate it that I have yet to be able to call any games... I miss it and I am chomping at the bit to be able too again. |
Edited by - christheump on 06/05/2012 12:38:36 |
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michael payne
19 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 13:57:07
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| Spartan4 comments more on umpires than any other poster. He complains about East Cobb umpires all the time. Sometimes when I am dressing for a game and I look down to see who the other umpires are working that day, and I see current and former minor league umpires, college and certified high school officials it makes me wonder "who the heck is Spartan4 to get on this forum and call umpires goons and horrible". I am sure he talks the same way about officials in front of his team the way he does on this forum. And we wonder why some kids have no respect for officials, there is your answer. |
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resumetoproveit
85 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2012 : 11:01:36
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Michael I feel your pain. Too many parents and coaches openly blame the umps and that creates major problems. We have one or two that do it every play pitch.
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Originally posted by michael payne
Spartan4 comments more on umpires than any other poster. He complains about East Cobb umpires all the time. Sometimes when I am dressing for a game and I look down to see who the other umpires are working that day, and I see current and former minor league umpires, college and certified high school officials it makes me wonder "who the heck is Spartan4 to get on this forum and call umpires goons and horrible". I am sure he talks the same way about officials in front of his team the way he does on this forum. And we wonder why some kids have no respect for officials, there is your answer.
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5220 Fans
112 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2012 : 14:14:12
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| I`ll tell ya, recently when we were in the T/C tourny in Savannah we had an umpire that was super. I didn`t catch his name, but after the game I, as well as other parents went to shake his hand and tell him "THANK YOU" for the outstanding job he had done. I even told him, he should hold clinics on how to be an umpire, both for current and future umpires. Very, very fair behind the plate, and at one point when the opposing team started to get a lil` to vocal and verbally abusive, he called "Time" in a professional and in respectful way talked to both sides of the stands and resumed play. |
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GAFarmer
90 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2012 : 16:58:48
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That was me. You guys were great. Did not question calls and very positive with your team and the other. Class acts.
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Originally posted by 5220 Fans
I`ll tell ya, recently when we were in the T/C tourny in Savannah we had an umpire that was super. I didn`t catch his name, but after the game I, as well as other parents went to shake his hand and tell him "THANK YOU" for the outstanding job he had done. I even told him, he should hold clinics on how to be an umpire, both for current and future umpires. Very, very fair behind the plate, and at one point when the opposing team started to get a lil` to vocal and verbally abusive, he called "Time" in a professional and in respectful way talked to both sides of the stands and resumed play.
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2012 : 22:30:40
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quote:
Originally posted by michael payne
Spartan4 comments more on umpires than any other poster. He complains about East Cobb umpires all the time. Sometimes when I am dressing for a game and I look down to see who the other umpires are working that day, and I see current and former minor league umpires, college and certified high school officials it makes me wonder "who the heck is Spartan4 to get on this forum and call umpires goons and horrible". I am sure he talks the same way about officials in front of his team the way he does on this forum. And we wonder why some kids have no respect for officials, there is your answer.
I would like you to ask Christheump how "respectful" I am to official in games he has umpired. I don't think he could say anything negative, and we have played his games a few times over the years. When an official does a good job neither side notices(not a glamorous job).....However, when officials try to put on a show(Ric Flair, taking 4 steps towards a kid who is injured at 2nd just to get some air when they ring him) up it becomes a problem(I know the parents are the problem but they are also the ones who pay for these games to happen) as NOBODY wants to pay to see an official call a game(especially as poorly as last weekend). Again this isn't an attack on ALL officials, if you read my posts(which you clearly do) you will see where I have commented how good the officials have been a few times over the years. Some officials go the extra way to ensure that we get their best, and we do appreciate that....The same umpire who I thought was really really pitiful last weekend was an extremely nice guy and the following day we were joking back and forth about some pro basketball players who flop when barely touched. But when a coach says, "hey blue, what did he do to balk??"....I don't think turning from second base and screaming, "IT IS A BALK BECAUSE I SAID IT WAS" is an appropriate response....Also, there are some umpires that as soon as they touch the field you hear the entire crowd(both sides) start cussing under their breath. That comes from YEARS of watching the same select few officials perform their job. There are absolutely zero repercussions for officials who perform their job poorly(unlike the poor disrespectful kid who gets rung up looking at a pitch 18inches off the plate and then gets benched)...Bud Selig used the term "human element" but I wonder how many coaches have been fired or players sent down over human element???? Never see an umpire(Joyce was a good example of a great guy who blew a fairly easy call) get sent down or publicly reprimanded.
Not being tough on all officials just the ones who feel the need to make themselves visable to the crowd or the ones who have for YEARS been pretty pitiful....Again, I have asked Chris many questions regarding calls during games and I don't believe I have ever been disrespectful...He hit the nail on the head that all the coaches/parents/players want is to know without a shadow of a doubt that they are getting a 100% effort from the officials. Not too much to ask IMO.... |
Edited by - Spartan4 on 06/09/2012 22:46:36 |
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michael payne
19 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2012 : 10:22:59
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Its early Monday and I should be working but let's go over your email, and for those really bored just go back and pull Spartan4's history and I challenge anyone to find someone more critical of the officials.
1. So if Christheump (do not believe he works for East Cobb but I could be wrong) or any ump is doing a good job you are respectful, here is the thing you are always suppose to be respectful. Your kids are watching you.
2. Show boating officials are a problem and they will be weeded out. It would be nice to get a name on these umpires you see putting on a show, the umps give you their names at the beginning of each game, call them out, maybe by initials (Stan may let that fly).
3. If you want to know why something was a balk yelling a question across the field is not the way to get an answer. The best coaches are like the best umps (never noticed), and conversations from 100 ft away on a judgment call are a recipe for disaster.
4. That is an amazing talent to know a pitch is 18 inches off the plate from the dugout view.
5. There have been a couple of MLB umpires suspended this year for poor customer service (a long time coming we do agree on that).
6. "Pitiful for years" strong statement, you can't turn on and turn off respect you either have it or you do not. First class programs like 643 and others lay down the law when it comes to behavior towards officials. "The crowd cussing under their breath" before a pitch is even made again that starts with the coach setting a bad example and the crowd following his lead. |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2012 : 13:09:58
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Spartan has always been respectful, along with 95% of the other coaches. The other 5% were not so much, but in some cases it was self inflicted wounds on my part.
I still stand firm in my belief that regardless of what age group I am calling, the kids deserve the best from the umpires. This includes looking professional, clean shirt, clean shoes, and hustle on every play. For many of these kids, travel or rec, these games will be the highlight of their baseball youth. Nothing makes me more angry than a PU that never moves from behind the dish or ones that show up for their first game with yesterdays brick dust still on their shoes. So what Spartan is asking for is not too much. We, as umpires, should expect that ourselves.
I can give you my best example of when hustle pays off, and I dont think that Jeff and Chris with Diamond Bears Baseball would mind me telling this story from last year:
Last year 11AA State Tourney in Social Circle, TIGHT TIGHT TIGHT game between them and another team. D-Bears were down and batting late in game.. I remember the exact play, they have one on 1st and 1 out so I am in B position..Batter lines one to outfielder that misses and ball goes to fence. They had speed on base and speed in the box. Both R1 and BR were flying. Great throw from OF to cut-off and cut-off to catcher gets the runner at home on a banger...BR makes it all the way around to 3rd and the catcher throws to 3rd for another banger for the 3rd out.
Now, I could have very easily kept my rear right where it was and made that call at 3rd from where I was standing on the other side of the field, even though I was not that far away. But I didnt, I moved. Chris and Jeff both didnt agree with the call and thought their guy was safe at 3rd, but Chris even said well even though I dont agree, you were right there on top of the play to make the call so I cant argue with that. He didn't like it, but knew I was in the best position to make that call. |
Edited by - christheump on 06/12/2012 14:21:30 |
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coachtony
236 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2012 : 14:49:33
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Chris....wasn't that the same tournament where this game actually was suspended and resumed the next day due to the rain and all of this happened the next morning? I just remember it flooding that night as the games were winding down and our game was far enough to be a complete game but that game still had to finish. Or am I confusing it with a different tournament? It was a nail biter for sure with two very good teams.
To expand on what you were saying, I tell umpires all the time that I might tell them that I disagree with a call and that I saw it differently, but if the umpire is in the proper position to make a call what basis do I really have to tell him that he is wrong when I am 30 or 50 or maybe even 100 feet away? What I will scream about is that the umpire was out of position to make the proper call or if the umpire does not know the rules....anything else is just not worth it.
--T
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2012 : 15:32:40
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quote:
Originally posted by coachtony
Chris....wasn't that the same tournament where this game actually was suspended and resumed the next day due to the rain and all of this happened the next morning? I just remember it flooding that night as the games were winding down and our game was far enough to be a complete game but that game still had to finish. Or am I confusing it with a different tournament? It was a nail biter for sure with two very good teams.
To expand on what you were saying, I tell umpires all the time that I might tell them that I disagree with a call and that I saw it differently, but if the umpire is in the proper position to make a call what basis do I really have to tell him that he is wrong when I am 30 or 50 or maybe even 100 feet away? What I will scream about is that the umpire was out of position to make the proper call or if the umpire does not know the rules....anything else is just not worth it.
--T
That was the same tourney!! |
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Just-in
13 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2012 : 15:49:46
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The reality of things is that a coach acting like a jackass when you disagree with a call is not the way to go about it. Going into the game you have to understand the situation you are in...Is it the 1st 2nd, or 3rd game for this crew…Hopefully you have had a chance to watch them work the game prior to yours…Yes you have to scout the umps.
Also you have to understand going in that with a two man crew, they will blow calls it’s that simple. My suggestions are simple, first forget about yelling on balls and strikes, you will never win and it makes you sound like a cry baby. Just talk with your batters and let them know how he is calling the game. Plays out in the field are where respect and calmness can gain you an advantage over a coach (s) that is hostile to umps. I love playing against coach (s) that is constantly on the field ump, because eventually that ump will allow his emotions to enter his judgment and I will get the benefit of a couple close calls. Most recent example was two weekends ago we had a force at 3b the other teams kid’s foot had slipped off the bag right before he got it and blue call our kid out. No way blue saw his foot off the bag so from his point of view that kid was on the bag. Now why argue? No one is changing their call, so what I did was to wait until the next inning walk up to him and say that I understood it was hard to see, but the kid was off the bag. Blue stated his case, my response was “no worries tough call” and that was the end of it. Later that inning we were the recipients of a close call.
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mstimpson
57 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2012 : 22:05:06
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Here are my two shinny pennies! I've been around travel ball and this great game for a while now. I do have to say that I have had more "disrespectful" umpires this year than in years past. My issue is when we politely ask an umpire for help or the location of a pitch. We state to our team that umpires never cost us a game, they are a non factor to me and we preach making adjustments. However, an increasing number of umpires are extremely confrontational and combative. I was talking to the plate umpire in between innings this year and the base umpire took it upon himself to put his hands on me and try to usher me into the dugout until the other umpire told him, "it is okay, we're just talking!"
Now, the scrutiny and angst these gentlemen have endured may lead to being chippy, but the attitudes with some of these umpires is my biggest issue. Those who know me, know I don't mince words, raise my voice or try to show up umpires. That being said, a lot of these umpires anticipate conflict and try to stop it by being way over the top. Good call or bad, as someone stated earlier and I agree 100%, be in position to make the call and be definitive. If it is both ways, I have no issue with a tight or large strike zone. Been around long enough to know not to question the strike zone. I do disagree with it changing based on the score.
Lastly, as someone posted earlier, we should thank umpires when they do a good job and show all umpires a tip of the cap when the game is over. As for old Spartan4, I have known him for years and he never shows an umpire up! I've heard and seen people conduct themselves way worst than he. I am glad he does his venting here and I have seen him thank a crew when they have done a good job! |
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Ribbinski
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2012 : 12:06:04
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Our umps were great this past tournaments. They were really in the 'know' and were on top of every call. I have 2 umps in my family. I have seen both sides. Thanks to all the umps that put their heart and time into the game. And to our last ump...the call on the third base steal was safe...Especially if the other team said our player was safe! 
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DoubleJ
5 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 16:52:00
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| My point of view: Never argue a call in front of the kids in a manner that the kids can hear you. If you have a question about a call or would like to ask for help, ask for time and if granted, turn your back to the crowd and have a conversation without everyone hearing you. Treat an umpire with the respect he deserves whether he makes a bad call or not. I agree with just-in, I love to coach against teams that are constantly on the umpires. By the way, there were four umpires down in Brunswick this weekend that were some of the best I have ever had the pleasure to be on the field with. One group was a Father and Son team that were great and the other two we had on Sunday were just as good. I think both groups were from the Leesburge-Tifton area and I wish they were more like them. I believe a good umpire or coach are the ones you never seem to notice regardless of the situation. |
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SCOOBY42
17 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2012 : 15:19:04
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| Well being an umpire for almost 20 years keeps me pretty level headed towards the ole blue. If I disagree with a call, I'll voice my opinion, then keep it moving. Coaches we need to understand that if a call is not a PROTESTABLE call, you are wasting valuable gametime! Now on the other hand the umpires must get better with the knowledge of the rules. It takes us coaches to the moon when the blue is dead wrong when it comes to the knowledge of the rule book. Having said that the umpiring has been overall pretty good this year. In closing, no umpire has won or lost a game for TEAM GEORGIA-KING BASBALL. |
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