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OpDvD
2 Posts |
 Posted - 06/18/2018 : 00:31:20
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As we approach the end of the summer season, I've had lots of conversations with disgruntled parents disappointed about the development of thier son, or the team not meeting thier expectations. But what exactly are people's expectations when joining an academy/team? I'm speaking in more of a development sense rather then winning tournament, but they may go hand in hand. After hearing about the things they want out of thier coach/training, I've tried to condense it into the following.
1.)Identifying and fixing fundamental mechanical flaws related to hitting/throwing
2.)good In game managing (e.g. Pitcher management, calling bunts/shifts/takes, substitutions, etc..
3.)Teaching the nuances behind your position (e.g. Approach,positioning, things to look for, calling games0
4.)Building team synergy/communication (e.g. Team positioning based on certain situations/plays)
If teams are practicing for 2 hours 2 days a week, and potentially holding 10-30 kids, how much should you expect to learn? I would say most teams are unable to achieve 2 of those categories, let alone all 4. So i ask all of you, based on your experience, what do you feel like the good teams do correct in terms of coaching/training? What to do they work on? And what should your expectations be of a team from a training/coaching perspective? |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2018 : 13:03:49
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| What age group? I don't expect a 15u+ team to fix mechanical flaws...or even really work on baseball IQ. |
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OpDvD
2 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2018 : 13:56:57
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
What age group? I don't expect a 15u+ team to fix mechanical flaws...or even really work on baseball IQ.
I was thinking a little younger. around the 12-14 age. But id like to hear your thoughts on older ages as well. |
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LKirc
13 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2018 : 14:08:21
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It depends on the age group. I would expect younger age groups to focus more on mechanical teaching. I would expect all coaches to have good communication and in game management.
I think the thing the "good teams" do correctly is recruit talented players to their organization. If you are truly looking for mechanical coaching help, go to a private coach for lessons. If you are looking for your team's coach to develop your individual player mechanically, you will probably be disappointed. |
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KentMurphy
96 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2018 : 14:17:48
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As CaC0 stated, a lot has to do with the age group... AND, the coach's selections of who's on the team. 1-4 would be non-issues if the coach would have put together similar-ability players. But, if a coach steps into a 'daddy/buddy-ball' team, then all bets are off. Or if coach puts some of his trainees on a team, and you have a wide array of talent (those who need help with fundamentals, while others just need honed in situational), then it'll be a LONG season because coach is having to gear practice towards the 'lowest common denominator' and frustration ensues.
If you're talking a AA team, sure everyone may need help with fundamentals, and maybe scratch the surface with situational...
A major team, need only 'workout' together just to get familiar with one another, and work on situational stuff to gel as a team.
Too many unknowns to answer. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2018 : 14:41:27
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From 15u+ perspective:
1.)Identifying and fixing fundamental mechanical flaws related to hitting/throwing
If these haven't been addressed prior to 15u the kid won't ve able to hit a 80mph fastball ,let alone 85-90 which is seen in 15u.
2.)good In game managing (e.g. Pitcher management, calling bunts/shifts/takes, substitutions, etc..
Pitcher management....it's such a loaded idea. Kid goes in there and walks the first two batters, do you take him out or let him work through it? Calling bunts/shifts/takes....that happens from 6u and up, sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not.
3.)Teaching the nuances behind your position (e.g. Approach,positioning, things to look for, calling games0
They should have this, especially MIF's. Catchers will likely have the hang of calling a game by now, but what I have seen is 14u and lower the coach calls the pitches. 15u-16u the catcher calls the pitches and the pitchers shake him off, 17u+ the pitcher listens to the catcher/coach calling the pitches.
4.)Building team synergy/communication (e.g. Team positioning based on certain situations/plays)
Team communication should be common by now. Pitcher, on a bunt you have first, no brainer. Ball goes left 2B has 2B, ball goes right SS has 2B....how to cover a pickle, how to cover a cut-off. Each coach might have a few twists but in one practice it's usually covered. as to what the coach wants.
If teams are practicing for 2 hours 2 days a week
Doesn;t usually happen 15u and up. You are expected to hone your craft on your time. Many of the tourneys are a week long, then there are hitting lessons, pitching lessons, weight room time, travel for next tourney...etc.
potentially holding 10-30 kids how much should you expect to learn?
None at 15u and up...it's BEYOND rare to have a coach that is good at hitting/pitching/fielding all in one guy. The good coaches know better than to mess with the kids.
what do you feel like the good teams do correct in terms of coaching/training? What to do they work on? And what should your expectations be of a team from a training/coaching perspective?
much of 15u plus coaching is entering the right tourneys for skill and age group. My son is on a good team, they are 15u but half the schedule is 16u, why...because he gets to play the best competition available. That is the true secret to team selection, you play on the best team that gives you significant playing time, going against the best competition.
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2018 : 06:11:58
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| The answers to these questions vary dramatically depending on the age group and what parents and players are looking to achieve. Hard to tell what age you refer to with a roster size of "10" (9U) to "30" (17U)..."Development" is always a key term thrown around. To me, that means your son is better at the end of the season vs making the same mistakes. To expect 2 or 3 coaches to "develop" a team of players on an individual basis is unrealistic. You need to be able to identify weaknesses and work on those outside. IMO the best programs are ones where you have multiple coaches working your son at any given practice. |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 06/19/2018 09:23:29 |
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lowandoutside
69 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2018 : 10:33:04
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| While some here may say mechanical flaws should be corrected prior to 15u, I would disagree. Mechanical flaws pop up and emerge at ALL ages. Even the guys in the Majors deal with mechanical flaws. Why else would the have pitching and hitting coaches? Take Folty for example. He's talked extensively about his issues when pitching and rushing and getting out over his front foot. I think he's a bit older than 15u and has issues. Same goes for the hitters. Adjustments and tweaking are should always be part of your game. I have seen kids who have struggled at older ages with hitting and their coach has made adjustments to their stance and/or swing and corrected the issue. So yes, I would expect a GOOD coach to be able to identify mechanical flaws at the older ages as well. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2018 : 08:43:55
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quote:
Originally posted by lowandoutside
While some here may say mechanical flaws should be corrected prior to 15u, I would disagree. Mechanical flaws pop up and emerge at ALL ages. Even the guys in the Majors deal with mechanical flaws. Why else would the have pitching and hitting coaches? Take Folty for example. He's talked extensively about his issues when pitching and rushing and getting out over his front foot. I think he's a bit older than 15u and has issues. Same goes for the hitters. Adjustments and tweaking are should always be part of your game. I have seen kids who have struggled at older ages with hitting and their coach has made adjustments to their stance and/or swing and corrected the issue. So yes, I would expect a GOOD coach to be able to identify mechanical flaws at the older ages as well.
I can agree with the pitcher needing more. His question was as it relates to hitting and throwing. So I was envisioning an outfielder throwing side arm, and a batter not knowing what his approach would be at the plate. He also said "fundamental flaws"...I think the fundamentals should be known by 15u. |
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lowandoutside
69 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2018 : 11:54:51
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by lowandoutside
While some here may say mechanical flaws should be corrected prior to 15u, I would disagree. Mechanical flaws pop up and emerge at ALL ages. Even the guys in the Majors deal with mechanical flaws. Why else would the have pitching and hitting coaches? Take Folty for example. He's talked extensively about his issues when pitching and rushing and getting out over his front foot. I think he's a bit older than 15u and has issues. Same goes for the hitters. Adjustments and tweaking are should always be part of your game. I have seen kids who have struggled at older ages with hitting and their coach has made adjustments to their stance and/or swing and corrected the issue. So yes, I would expect a GOOD coach to be able to identify mechanical flaws at the older ages as well.
I can agree with the pitcher needing more. His question was as it relates to hitting and throwing. So I was envisioning an outfielder throwing side arm, and a batter not knowing what his approach would be at the plate. He also said "fundamental flaws"...I think the fundamentals should be known by 15u.
I see your side regarding throwing. But their are flaws in players at all levels. Maybe the outfielder is throwing side arm and always has and has had success doing so. But even at 15u they might find and work with a coach who corrects the flaw or works to tweak it. I also wouldn't expect a 15u to have perfected their approach at the plate either. We may hope they have, but lets be realistic. Read articles on prospects and minor league hitters and you will constantly ready where they are working on "their approach at the plate." My argument is that even at 15u and older, I expect my son to be "coached" and that he will continue to grow, develop, and evolve. Unless you have a super prospect who has mastered all their skills at 15u, I would hope you'd feel the same way. |
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2018 : 06:49:43
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At 15u and up, you should pretty much have the fundamentals down. At that age, you should just be fine tuning.
As far as hitting, that is like a painting that you will never finish. All hitters tinker with their swing when they struggle at the plate, if you are not struggling now, you will be soon enough. The hardest thing to do in sports is to hit a baseball, so hitting is a constant evolution. |
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line_drive
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2018 : 08:38:12
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
From 15u+ perspective:
If teams are practicing for 2 hours 2 days a week
Doesn;t usually happen 15u and up. You are expected to hone your craft on your time. Many of the tourneys are a week long, then there are hitting lessons, pitching lessons, weight room time, travel for next tourney...etc.
what do you feel like the good teams do correct in terms of coaching/training? What to do they work on? And what should your expectations be of a team from a training/coaching perspective?
much of 15u plus coaching is entering the right tourneys for skill and age group. My son is on a good team, they are 15u but half the schedule is 16u, why...because he gets to play the best competition available. That is the true secret to team selection, you play on the best team that gives you significant playing time, going against the best competition.
What are we paying for then? Someone to enter tournaments for us? Anyone can do that - we all seem to know what level the team should be playing at, even if we want to believe they are better than they are. And at 15+ there are not as many options level-wise.
I consider myself an honest evaluator of my kid's ability. My son was not on a top team, but he played EVERY game, and there were many kids on the team who were no where close to that. Batted decent average even against top teams at PG WWBA. Pitched average speed (according to PG data). The team overall needed some serious batting work and many of the errors were shocking for the age group, but his team wasn't alone in that (so maybe the errors aren't really shocking for the age!) I figure my kid is average to above average, which appears to be a bad word these days, but he has potential and desire to be better. He improves every year. My son also really liked his coach and felt comfortable asking him what he should/needed to be doing to get better and he got honest feedback.
Back to the question - We all willingly pay several grand to play baseball for a paid coach who apparently isn't expected to develop a kid or a team as a whole (according to all the posts here.) So I'm asking, what are the paid coaches supposed to be doing if 1) our kids are supposed to be flawless by 15+ and 2) we're also supposed to be paying more money separately for regular hitting and/or pitching sessions? |
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SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2018 : 12:55:00
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quote:
Originally posted by bama21
At 15u and up, you should pretty much have the fundamentals down. At that age, you should just be fine tuning.
As far as hitting, that is like a painting that you will never finish. All hitters tinker with their swing when they struggle at the plate, if you are not struggling now, you will be soon enough. The hardest thing to do in sports is to hit a baseball, so hitting is a constant evolution.
I think it's pretty accurate what you said about hitting a baseball, but hitting a golf ball is right there with it.  |
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Expectations and factors that make good teams
