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SMASH
253 Posts |
 Posted - 07/06/2018 : 22:16:59
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I have never understood the argument "baseball should be fun" ???
The game of baseball 'IS' fun. There is nothing that parents or coaches need to do to make the game fun. Create and maintain a positive environment and then let the kids play. It's overbearing parents and coaches that take the fun out of the game. It's never the game's fault.
If your truly passionate about baseball, all aspects of the game are fun. From practicing to playing...hours of BP to a thousands of groundballs...you gotta love it. If your son is not having fun you might want to check your behavior. Or maybe he doesn't truly love the game. Maybe I was lucky. I always had fun playing it, coaching it, watching it, umpiring it...didnt matter. Baseball is the greatest game ever invented. No need for juice boxes or after game snacks or walk up music..just baseball!
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2018 : 12:49:57
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| Yes. It IS fun. The only things that can make it not fun are overly angry, competitive or manipulative parents and/or incompetent, angry, or degrading coaches or ones who can't handle those same manipulative and overly competitve parents. Bad coaching can be solved with a new team. Those parents who brow beat their kids off the field, yell from the stands, expect more than their kids can produce, or who manipulate coaches to meet their expectations are another matter. They can suck the joy right out of the game for their child and their actions sadly follow the kid like a black cloud, so that behavior can definitely make baseball "not fun." |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 07/07/2018 14:47:25 |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2018 : 08:23:28
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| Hard to be fun when these orgs got parents shelling out $3000 or more all the while they getting beat down by $1200 teams. |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2018 : 11:32:30
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Fun, fun, fun, fun
also reads $5 here, $55 there, 2 hour drives, 110 degree turf, $3 water, $200 hotels X 6, and white concrete jungle.........with a whole another double row line of clowns wanting your money on the way in.
Fun is money!
And crap is crap. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2018 : 07:09:14
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quote:
Originally posted by SMASH
I have never understood the argument "baseball should be fun" ???
The game of baseball 'IS' fun. There is nothing that parents or coaches need to do to make the game fun. Create and maintain a positive environment and then let the kids play. It's overbearing parents and coaches that take the fun out of the game. It's never the game's fault.
If your truly passionate about baseball, all aspects of the game are fun. From practicing to playing...hours of BP to a thousands of groundballs...you gotta love it. If your son is not having fun you might want to check your behavior. Or maybe he doesn't truly love the game. Maybe I was lucky. I always had fun playing it, coaching it, watching it, umpiring it...didnt matter. Baseball is the greatest game ever invented. No need for juice boxes or after game snacks or walk up music..just baseball!
Playing is the key. Playing with a coach who actually knows what they are doing is amazing. The way the older tourneys are set up you need about 15-20 kids just to hang. That is 6-11 kids sitting PER INNING....that's not really fun. Get a coach that won't rotate in the back up kids when you are up 10-0 in the second, that's not fun either. Being told you are a PO when you are good at hitting, that's the least fun.
There are many things adults can do to make baseball no longer fun. As a parent we just have to roll with it and do our best to find them a place where they will have fun. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2018 : 10:56:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Hard to be fun when these orgs got parents shelling out $3000 or more all the while they getting beat down by $1200 teams.
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Fun, fun, fun, fun
also reads $5 here, $55 there, 2 hour drives, 110 degree turf, $3 water, $200 hotels X 6, and white concrete jungle.........with a whole another double row line of clowns wanting your money on the way in.
Fun is money!
And crap is crap.
These are parent issues that MAY make watching the game NOT fun for them. Should not have ANYTHING to do with the game being fun for the player, unless the parent makes it that way.
Baseball should be fun and is fun as long as the parents and coaches don't do something to make it not fun. It's always more fun to win, but my son was on some losing teams, he never lost the love of the game and never stopped having fun. Playing is a bonus, but I saw where my son did not play as much as he would have liked in college, but he still had fun. Loved the practices, loved the games, loved the atmosphere, loved his teammates, loved the competition, loved everything about the game. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2018 : 12:59:11
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Hard to be fun when these orgs got parents shelling out $3000 or more all the while they getting beat down by $1200 teams.
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Fun, fun, fun, fun
also reads $5 here, $55 there, 2 hour drives, 110 degree turf, $3 water, $200 hotels X 6, and white concrete jungle.........with a whole another double row line of clowns wanting your money on the way in.
Fun is money!
And crap is crap.
These are parent issues that MAY make watching the game NOT fun for them. Should not have ANYTHING to do with the game being fun for the player, unless the parent makes it that way.
Baseball should be fun and is fun as long as the parents and coaches don't do something to make it not fun. It's always more fun to win, but my son was on some losing teams, he never lost the love of the game and never stopped having fun. Playing is a bonus, but I saw where my son did not play as much as he would have liked in college, but he still had fun. Loved the practices, loved the games, loved the atmosphere, loved his teammates, loved the competition, loved everything about the game.
Right. These are parent issues, which I think a lot of parents have lost their minds in youth sports. But it is a major factor that trickles down the pressure put on the kids to make it not fun.
We all know that youth sports is a billion dollar non taxable business that's better than selling drugs and people have bought in to it like opiod addicts in what i call a weird sense of what value really is. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2018 : 15:04:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Hard to be fun when these orgs got parents shelling out $3000 or more all the while they getting beat down by $1200 teams.
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Fun, fun, fun, fun
also reads $5 here, $55 there, 2 hour drives, 110 degree turf, $3 water, $200 hotels X 6, and white concrete jungle.........with a whole another double row line of clowns wanting your money on the way in.
Fun is money!
And crap is crap.
These are parent issues that MAY make watching the game NOT fun for them. Should not have ANYTHING to do with the game being fun for the player, unless the parent makes it that way.
Baseball should be fun and is fun as long as the parents and coaches don't do something to make it not fun. It's always more fun to win, but my son was on some losing teams, he never lost the love of the game and never stopped having fun. Playing is a bonus, but I saw where my son did not play as much as he would have liked in college, but he still had fun. Loved the practices, loved the games, loved the atmosphere, loved his teammates, loved the competition, loved everything about the game.
Right. These are parent issues, which I think a lot of parents have lost their minds in youth sports. But it is a major factor that trickles down the pressure put on the kids to make it not fun.
We all know that youth sports is a billion dollar non taxable business that's better than selling drugs and people have bought in to it like opiod addicts in what i call a weird sense of what value really is.
I did it and enjoyed every minute. I would not trade the times and experiences for anything. My son and I are still close and we both still enjoy baseball and each other.
You had a choice. You should live with your choices and not be so negative. There are plenty of alternatives out there for parents to choose from. If you are not happy with your choices, blame yourself, not baseball. If you let your personal feelings for your choices effect your son's love for baseball, that's on you - not on baseball.
I hate to be confrontational, but I get tired of people blaming baseball for their choices. Take some responsibility. Either change your attitude and look back at whatever positives you may have gained from the experience or look back and learn from your mistakes... |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2018 : 19:13:35
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Hey I have a fun idea................
Baseball is fun. The baseball industry selling dreams is a pack of vultures. And those constantly circling vultures suck every bit of fun out of this great game.
Now who's blaming baseball itself?
And by the way my kid pays his own way. And he thinks he's being robbed blind by the vultures. But wants it bad enough that he feels there is little choice but to go along with the prey, because everyone else is running off the cliff he's got to be there too in the same pack. Maybe he stops just before jumping, or gets what he wants before the looming cliff dive. But he knows 95% of the fun crowd is going to land roughly at the bottom. I kinda doubt the process feels fun to him.
Now if the checkbook is oblivious to the expense heck yeah I guess traveling from here to there for a few weeks at a time, shacking in new hotels, and touring the southeast could be a blast. What more could an entitled kid desire?
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2018 : 19:42:57
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| The parents shelling out money to buy the advantage only goes so far. At some point the kid can either play or they can't. Who has ever been drafted that can't play but had parents with some loot? So at some point, teams aren't benching the rock stars. If you are paying the big bucks to watch your son wear a jersey and ride the bench, that's on you, or your son, if the jersey means more to either of you than the game. Plenty of options. To actually play is to have fun. |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 07/09/2018 19:55:44 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2018 : 09:49:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Hey I have a fun idea................
Baseball is fun. The baseball industry selling dreams is a pack of vultures. And those constantly circling vultures suck every bit of fun out of this great game.
Now who's blaming baseball itself?
And by the way my kid pays his own way. And he thinks he's being robbed blind by the vultures. But wants it bad enough that he feels there is little choice but to go along with the prey, because everyone else is running off the cliff he's got to be there too in the same pack. Maybe he stops just before jumping, or gets what he wants before the looming cliff dive. But he knows 95% of the fun crowd is going to land roughly at the bottom. I kinda doubt the process feels fun to him.
Now if the checkbook is oblivious to the expense heck yeah I guess traveling from here to there for a few weeks at a time, shacking in new hotels, and touring the southeast could be a blast. What more could an entitled kid desire?
Then I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona for you. Interested?
And your son is paying his own way? How old is he and where is he coming up with $3,000 plus travel, hotels, meals, etc to pay his own way? And if your son is paying his own way, why are you so pissed off? Seems like he's making his own choices and you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
Nobody has to be part of a pack, jumping off a cliff. Part of a parent's responsibility is to teach and guide their children. I wouldn't coach or guide my son to do something that I saw as jumping off a cliff with a bunch of prey... |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2018 : 10:19:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
The parents shelling out money to buy the advantage only goes so far. At some point the kid can either play or they can't. Who has ever been drafted that can't play but had parents with some loot? So at some point, teams aren't benching the rock stars. If you are paying the big bucks to watch your son wear a jersey and ride the bench, that's on you, or your son, if the jersey means more to either of you than the game. Plenty of options. To actually play is to have fun.
My point exactly. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2018 : 11:05:01
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| My son's job is to be a kid and train for baseball. I can't see how he would have time to do anything else. During the school year he also has the job of being a student, again, no time for anything else. I gladly pay for baseball, but I do impose limits. |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2018 : 22:38:29
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How pay?
Baseball lessons at $25 an hour for younger players adds up. As does summer duties as a baseball camp instructor during the day.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2018 : 09:12:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
How pay?
Baseball lessons at $25 an hour for younger players adds up. As does summer duties as a baseball camp instructor during the day.
Does he plan on going D1? Hope you checked that with the NCAA...too close for my comfort:
These guidelines can be found in the NCAA Division 1 Manual, which is updated on a yearly basis and has been utilized since the organization’s inception:[2]
12.1.2
athletes are stripped of their amateur status and thus their right to participate within NCAA sporting events if they receive payment for their athletic skills.[7] |
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lowandoutside
69 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2018 : 14:49:01
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| "payment for their athletic skill".....sorry but I don't believe getting paid to give a younger kid lessons is payment for "athletic skills" that is referencing getting paid somewhere to play, hence losing amateur status. Their are plenty of D1 players who give lessons and coach during the summer months, my son took lessons from several who were college athletes and gave lessons during the off-season. And believe me, knowing the players and one of their families well, they wouldn't have done anything that would've jeopardized their ability to play at the collegiate level. |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2018 : 17:14:01
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| LOL mis-application of rules. |
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SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2018 : 21:18:58
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| Yeah I must say, if I had a good chance to play D1 ball, I don't think I would take a chance of messing things up by getting paid for my athletic skills. I would really have to be sure. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
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Elijah
26 Posts |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2018 : 21:24:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Elijah
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
LOL mis-application of rules.
Because the NCAA ALWAYS makes sense in their decisions. How about the kid who did videos of himself kicking, NCAA was all over him so the school finally said he was ineligible. I can 100% agree that when the NCAA tells you to stop, you either stop or face their wrath. But how is what he did different than teaching baseball at a camp, or getting paid for lessons?
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/ucf-knights/knights-notepad/os-sp-ucf-kicker-video-conflict-0613-20170612-story.html
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2724894-ucf-kicker-donald-de-la-haye-ruled-ineligible-by-ncaa-over-youtube-channel
Wow. Good info. But would this apply to kids pre-college? Kids get help from teams concerning fees. Some have sponsors, etc. Teams fundraise for their teams. Certainly a kid could fun raise for himself, right?
Most know, that if I kid is 'scholarship' on a travel team, it IS a benefit received. Sure, someone, or the rest of the team, 'floated' that kid, but if ever in print ("no fees", or "fees are covered"-- especially by someone of 'authority' on a team-- the "GM" or 'coach'), then the kid IS in risk of losing amateur status for NCAA. |
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Elijah
26 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2018 : 13:12:45
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https://www.rallyme.com/
I would assume these guys looked into the question. Crowdfunding for teams and individuals. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2018 : 10:03:24
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When you fundraise there are usually two ways. You get sponsors for JUST you, that is youth travel ball, and those people aren't really sponsoring you they are cutting a check to the team that gets credited to your dues because you got the sponsorship, it has zero to do with if your kid is good or sits the bench. Therefore, I don't see how it is profiting from your skills.
In High School it does towards the team, with a percentage to the players family who did the work to get the sponsorship. It's not the kid receiving the money.
There are fundraisers, where a percentage of the profits go to the kid who sold the goods. Again, nothing to do with his skill.
Now, receiving money from videoing your skill...yup, that's all about you. Receiving money from teaching your skill, I think again it would be all about you....or at least too close to your skill for me to let my kid do it. He's a lifeguard, pay is good, work is stupidly easy. |
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NorcrossBBall
55 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2018 : 09:42:26
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Interesting thread........a lot of good points and perspectives....and emotions....well justified.
The "reality" is the "game" becomes different based on the expectation of the parents and the kid...versus what the perception and/or reality of how Coaches view your son.
My advice is enjoy tee-ball thru 12U.....above that 13U/14U you will start to get a taste of how nasty/unforgiving the game "can be".....but obviously not always will be.
Now enter HS...15U/16U....then to Varsity 17U/18U and only for the not so faint of heart parents.
If you want "participation" baseball there are TONS of avenues....called Rec ball....or low end Travel....which has specific non-TC/non-PG tournaments servicing those "levels".
These "participation" teams/levels are very reasonable...from few hundred $$$ to $1K.
Now....you want your son to play/scale TC and PG.....whole different ball game guys.
This is not longer "participation" ball but competitive pre-college or draft ball....that is what folks/kids are gunning for there.
If you are parent shelling out $3K+hotels+etc. and you think because of that your son will get equal playing time then it's on you.....your mistake.
Those teams are for kids who are targeting scholarships to college or draft. In addition those "teams" (Academies) are businesses and they are building a brand....which simple means....more they win, more money they can make....pure and simple.
You have to understand the deep end of the pool you are playing in and also reality check if your son is really at or scaling at those levels.
The frustration comes when those expectations and reality collide.
Baseball should be fun.....but with all professions when you reach levels where people are now looking to extract $$$ from it...or on path to....you have to ask yourself your true goals.
Don't complain about what you freely sign up for....your $3K+ is not a ticket for playing time.....if you feel it is then you are being very naive.
When going down this path you need to really have awareness of your/son goals and his ability to achieve those.
Failing can be good lesson as well........but setting your child up for failure because your expectations & his don't align with reality is a recipe for disaster.
As everyone says.....it is ALL about playing time 15U and above.....find a team that allows your son to have considerable playing time...whether lowest end Rec or highest end travel.
If you don't set this as your main goal and align accordingly then I guarantee it won't be "fun" and you will feel you've thrown money away. |
Edited by - NorcrossBBall on 07/31/2018 09:46:21 |
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Baseball should be fun
