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wareagle
324 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2018 : 16:39:09
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Some schools will allow it and some may not.
punisher
It really sounds like you must have had a bad personal experience with this. Who knows. Anyway I will chalk the D3/D4 comment up to you just don’t know what you are talking about. It only takes a few minutes to look up D1 commits on PG to see an awful lot of D1 commits that were “held back”. Even when we talk about holding kids back for sports, it doesn’t mean that I think that they will be superstars or go to the MLB. But they may get to play varsity HS ball as a sophomore or junior instead of a senior. I don’t personally see many people holding kids back to win 12 year old trophies. Most that I know played up in tournaments or played in top tournaments with similar kids. For me personally it was more about not wanting him to be the youngest in his class instead of trying to gain an advantage for being the oldest |
Edited by - wareagle on 09/19/2018 16:49:33 |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2018 : 17:01:11
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| Ok, so I'm confused.. someone plz clarify. You all are saying if I have an 8th grader who is already taking high school classes and I want him to have a chance at college baseball..I should make him repeat this whole year at a private school and then re-enter at 9th grade with a child who is now 16 at the beginning of his freshman year? And that would make him 6 months shy of his 20th birthday graduating high school??? I graduated from COLLEGE at 21!!! Call me crazy but this sounds ridiculous! Is it really going to improve his chances of making it to the show? It seems if they are THAT good they'll get picked up regardless. Maybe I'm missing something? |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 09/19/2018 17:11:28 |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2018 : 17:31:33
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Crazy for b-ball
I think you are adding an extra year. Most of the kids I am talking about woul still be 18 or possibly just turned 19 at graduation. If you have an eighth grader that will be 15 when he starts his freshman year then many consider him held back. You may be one of the “bad” guys and didn’t even know it!! |
Edited by - wareagle on 09/19/2018 19:00:54 |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2018 : 23:27:09
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| War eagle..yes he has a fall birthday so will be 15 the beginning of freshman year. So not held back, just started at the standard time for his birthday. So the notion of someone like us repeating a year was absurd. But he is a smaller kid, maturity ahead of the pack, but physically behind. I was trying to ascertain whether people like us would actually do that. |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 09/20/2018 09:18:39 |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2018 : 15:59:54
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Crazy.
I am sure that there are a few examples of fall birthdays like your son being held back but in my experience , it pretty uncommon. Usually starts with kids with birthdays in the Feb range and becomes pretty prevalent with June/ July / August birthdays.
Both my boys are lsummer birthdays and while some people choose to say that I held them back a year, I look at it as I held them back a month or two. If they had been born a month or two later then they would be where they are now.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2018 : 07:09:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Ok, so I'm confused.. someone plz clarify. You all are saying if I have an 8th grader who is already taking high school classes and I want him to have a chance at college baseball..I should make him repeat this whole year at a private school and then re-enter at 9th grade with a child who is now 16 at the beginning of his freshman year? And that would make him 6 months shy of his 20th birthday graduating high school??? I graduated from COLLEGE at 21!!! Call me crazy but this sounds ridiculous! Is it really going to improve his chances of making it to the show? It seems if they are THAT good they'll get picked up regardless. Maybe I'm missing something?
The holding back thing is common for kids like mine with an August birthday. The first week of his junior year he was still 15. Thankfully he's 6'3 and has no problems competing at 17u or 18u, but if he was smaller I probably would have held him back, heck I probably should have anyway. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2018 : 10:10:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Ok, so I'm confused.. someone plz clarify. You all are saying if I have an 8th grader who is already taking high school classes and I want him to have a chance at college baseball..I should make him repeat this whole year at a private school and then re-enter at 9th grade with a child who is now 16 at the beginning of his freshman year? And that would make him 6 months shy of his 20th birthday graduating high school??? I graduated from COLLEGE at 21!!! Call me crazy but this sounds ridiculous! Is it really going to improve his chances of making it to the show? It seems if they are THAT good they'll get picked up regardless. Maybe I'm missing something?
I’m definitely not saying that you or anyone “should” do anything because that not my place. I was basically answering someone’s question about how kids are held back a year. As I said before, I think every parent should do what they think is best for their own children.
I also started my senior year of high school as a 16 year-old and actually tried (unsuccessfully) to get my son (October birthday) moved up a year because he basically did two years of Pre-K.
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KentMurphy
96 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2018 : 15:19:49
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| I have a 2024 (Aug b-day) and 2025 (May b-day). 2024 will graduate a few months shy of his 19th birthday. The 2025 will be right around his 18th birthday. So one is always nearly the oldest, and the other, always the youngest. I don't consider that I held the oldest back, as much as started on time. The younger, I wish we had started him later. NEVER ONCE did it dawn on me about athletics. Moreso the thought was maturity and cognative development. I think if they graduate at 18 years old (no matter how close to 19 it is), they would be considered 'on track'. In some cases, hearing that a kid is 'held back' actually just means he's gotten more 'on track' than where he was before (assuming he won't reach his 19th b-day by graduation). |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2018 : 09:41:11
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"someone plz clarify. You all are saying if I have an 8th grader who is already taking high school classes and I want him to have a chance at college baseball..I should make him repeat this whole year at a private school and then re-enter at 9th grade with a child who is now 16 at the beginning of his freshman year? And that would make him 6 months shy of his 20th birthday graduating high school???"
Yes that is it. And beat the radar slinging wild fastballs to premature 14U's for another year. Get hype ranked by PG and you are mostly golden. Colleges seem to love this crud. And PG goes bonkers over the 2 year older kid using his more mature body to look cool vs. little boys. All about the image, and the money. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2018 : 12:35:02
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| For some this is a sensitive subject that they are attempting to defend. Like wareagle said, his kid wasn't the best, so he was held back to beat up on younger kids. The problem is that no matter how long you hold them back, they will not be the best at a year below or even 2 years below. They are where they are. Instead of adapting to the game with the hand dealt, hold back for every little so called advantage possible. May work for some, but not for many. Still, they are not all in on the game. |
Edited by - Punishers on 09/25/2018 14:38:49 |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2018 : 18:15:48
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Yep. You got me. I held him back so he could beat up on those seniors on varsity when he was a freshman.
Again, find me a couple of people that held thier kids back and what a big mistake they made. I still have not seen a negative for my boys. From driving, dating, academics, maturity, social and yes, Athletics. It has all been a plus for mine. And yes I will defend it and even recommend it if it fits someone’s situation. |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2018 : 19:28:13
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| At the younger ages the cutoff dates for baseball were the end of March. So at the younger ages it really doesn’t affect what age group you play with so it had no advantage of “playing down” against younger kids anyway. |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2018 : 20:21:22
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[quote]Originally posted by wareagle
At the younger ages the cutoff dates for baseball were the end of March. So at the younger ages it really doesn’t affect what age group you play with so it had no advantage of “playing down” against younger kids anyway.
The main problem I saw was coaches that would put illegal aged players on the rosters And the parents, kids and organizations that allowed it. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2018 : 23:31:01
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quote:
Originally posted by wareagle
Yep. You got me. I held him back so he could beat up on those seniors on varsity when he was a freshman.
Again, find me a couple of people that held thier kids back and what a big mistake they made. I still have not seen a negative for my boys. From driving, dating, academics, maturity, social and yes, Athletics. It has all been a plus for mine. And yes I will defend it and even recommend it if it fits someone’s situation.
You got yourself on this one. Being a 17yo freshman is nothing to brag about. 95% of my class graduated at 17yo. I'm guessing he will not be playing his senior year cause he will be tool old and almost legally able to by alcohol. |
Edited by - Punishers on 09/26/2018 09:14:34 |
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2018 : 07:51:21
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No one should have to, nor should they feel compelled to defend a decision that was made with the intent to benefit THEIR kid.
If you think it would be beneficial to hold your kid back, then do it and let the ones that don't feel that way continue on their path as well. To each his own.
Also, if this offends anyone, then maybe their parents should have held them back too because it sounds like they are emotionally insecure.
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2018 : 10:15:38
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Punisher
I am only going to respond because I enjoy a spirited debate as much as anyone! Some of your comments are laughable, and maybe you should have been held back yourself. You could have used that extra year of reading and arithmetic!
If you read my comments and use basic math, it is easy to see that my son had an August birthday, and was 15 as a freshman. He has started varsity since he was a freshman. Made the 1st team All-Region as a freshman, and has made 1st team All-State as a sophomore and junior. Pretty sure he will be playing his senior year.
His education is 75-80% covered by a combination of academic and athletic money at a pretty good D1 university.
If you had a bad experience with your son because of other kids being "held back" please share it. It may help keep others from making a similar mistake. If you don't have any actual experience to share, I can only assume that your are just full of it. |
Edited by - wareagle on 09/26/2018 10:18:45 |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2018 : 14:28:04
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Never had a hold back experience with me or my son. As someone who is bit older than most of you all, holding back meant short bus. My kid is on track to graduate at 17yo just like his parents. While kids his age are playing 12u, he is playing 14u and holding his own.
You played your kid up, errr, down. Good for you, it's working out, not every case is the same. I know many that have did the same with different results as there is a peak point some reach earlier than others. It just seems like yours was slow to develop with his original class in more categories than just athletically (your words, not mines), so holding him back was the best option. |
Edited by - Punishers on 09/26/2018 15:00:15 |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2018 : 15:26:39
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Punisher
My unsolicited advice on 12U playing up to 14U (from my experience with older sons). In general, Don't be in too big a hurry to jump on the big field. I have seen numerous kids injure themselves trying to throw the ball farther and swing bats that their bodies are not ready for yet. Without knowing your son, it is impossible for me to say, because it depends more on physical maturity and size than on age. There are certainly advantages to playing up, if they are early bloomers and/or physically ready. Good luck to your son. |
Edited by - wareagle on 09/26/2018 15:46:59 |
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oneZone
117 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2018 : 17:41:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Never had a hold back experience with me or my son. As someone who is bit older than most of you all, holding back meant short bus. My kid is on track to graduate at 17yo just like his parents. While kids his age are playing 12u, he is playing 14u and holding his own.
You played your kid up, errr, down. Good for you, it's working out, not every case is the same. I know many that have did the same with different results as there is a peak point some reach earlier than others. It just seems like yours was slow to develop with his original class in more categories than just athletically (your words, not mines), so holding him back was the best option.
Punisher, you can and should do whatever you think is best for your kid.
As for me, I would rather have my 12-year-old kid play for a 12U team that: 1) competes at a high level (AAA+), 2) wins more than loses, and 3) isn't coached by me. But like I said, you do whatever you think is best for your kid.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2018 : 10:39:26
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quote:
Originally posted by wareagle
Punisher
My unsolicited advice on 12U playing up to 14U (from my experience with older sons). In general, Don't be in too big a hurry to jump on the big field. I have seen numerous kids injure themselves trying to throw the ball farther and swing bats that their bodies are not ready for yet. Without knowing your son, it is impossible for me to say, because it depends more on physical maturity and size than on age. There are certainly advantages to playing up, if they are early bloomers and/or physically ready. Good luck to your son.
Agree 100% |
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RUSemiPro
95 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2018 : 01:29:49
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What if it doesn't work, what if they are still mediocre and these younger players show them up, now you've wasted a year and a lot of money in private school.
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
"someone plz clarify. You all are saying if I have an 8th grader who is already taking high school classes and I want him to have a chance at college baseball..I should make him repeat this whole year at a private school and then re-enter at 9th grade with a child who is now 16 at the beginning of his freshman year? And that would make him 6 months shy of his 20th birthday graduating high school???"
Yes that is it. And beat the radar slinging wild fastballs to premature 14U's for another year. Get hype ranked by PG and you are mostly golden. Colleges seem to love this crud. And PG goes bonkers over the 2 year older kid using his more mature body to look cool vs. little boys. All about the image, and the money.
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RUSemiPro
95 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2018 : 01:37:14
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Same boat here, smaller sized kid, but he can hold his own, IF and When he finally does hit puberty, he will get his advantage then, I would never think of playing him down or holding him back, instead I think the challenge of having to overcome the size issue will make him stronger and better for the long term.
What we are seeing are over zealous parents trying to gain another advantage for their child, instead of letting the child go out and do it on their own.
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
I don't think anyone disputes holding a kid back in the early years for maturity purposes. Is anyone really doing it for sports then? That would be a pretty bold assumption by a parent that a kindergartner or 1st grader was destined to be an athlete. At that age if you are doing it strictly for sports that says a lot about the parent's approach to their child's destiny. What if you get the artist or musician instead? We see enough kids on the field who don't want to be there at younger ages, please let's not add to the mix. If it works out, then great.
As far as a middle school, decent sized kid with great grades, would anyone here seriously consider making such a kid repeat a grade just to be bigger? As the parent of a smaller such kid with great grades, I would feel my priorities were seriously screwed up if I made him repeat classes he aced to size up. They will all hit puberty eventually, if there is a lag year where he has to grind it out to wait and grow so be it. If he's got the right stuff it will shake out by 16, if not, then he can focus on academic excellence and move on. But as others have pointed out just whats right for us.
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2018 : 11:35:19
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I believe we all would agree that there has to be some degree of talent and the potential to play college sports.
This is not for everyone, some kids hit puberty early, so no advantage for them. As far as the what if it doesn't work out, there are no guarantees in life about anything, but at least you won't look back and wonder "what if".
Personally, I am not in the business of telling other people what is best for them, too many of those as it is, whether you do it or not do it that is a personal family decision. |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2018 : 12:53:04
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Real Life example.
Friend of mine has a son that is a really good ballplayer, above average student, etc..
His sons birthday is very close to my younger sons birthday. He is currently a 15 year old sophomore, my son is a 15 year old freshman. He is in the terrible position of having numerous good juniors in the program that play his position and he may struggle to see playing time until he is a senior. He will compete and we will see what happens but he is at a disadvantage because of when his parents decided to reproduce and he was born a month too early. I believe that at least one or more of the juniors are summer birthdays that started late, so now he is more than 2 years younger than his competition. Too late to hold him back now, but that extra month or two or three can make a substantial difference in some cases.
In general I think most boys with summer birthdays should wait and begin school later, they simply are more immature mentally and physically than their female counterparts. There really is no downside that I can find. Once they begin school it becomes a more difficult decision. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2018 : 13:27:13
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| I would agree we should all do what's best for us. Again I'm addressing strictly those who would make a middle schooler repeat a grade. I just hope those boys are ultimately the ones making that choice and not overzealous parents. I asked my son about his thoughts...as much as he lives breathes and eats the sport, the look of horror he gave me over the prospect of repeating even a class he passed, let alone a grade, gave me everything I needed! |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 09/28/2018 14:14:55 |
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Holding Kid Back a Grade for Athletic Purposes
