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 Gate Fee's at Public Park
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RickJohnson

1 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2019 :  10:46:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello I have a question regarding gate fee's at a public park. I understand the gate fee's are for fundraising but can a tournament or team actually charge you gate fee to enter the public park legally? Also the last tournament had a sign no outside coolers. Can I legally ignore this and just walk in with my cooler and pay nothing? After all I pay taxes that pay for the City park the tournament is being played at. Thanks

Renegade44

211 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2019 :  13:17:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ha! You're just there to walk, picnic, whatever park activity......other than their rented baseball. Tell them at the gate.

By the way? Don't you love the business model? Rent-a-park probably with a facility cost of a million $ to build, rent it for weekend for $250 a field. Charge admission to public facility. No capital in the game.

Entire business model rely's on ability to reserve the public built and paid for park assets for your personal business venture.
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South GA Baseball

27 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2019 :  15:55:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is my understanding that these tournaments lease the park for the duration of the tournament. Even though it is a public park you will have to pay the entry fee and obey the rules of the tournament or be required to leave. If the park is operated as it should, the money made from the leasing of these type events help to reduce the amount of public funding necessary to operate said park.
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baseball713

60 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2019 :  18:12:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't mind it as much for the rec All Star tournament as the gate fees and concessions normally go to the local rec all star team. It is not being done for profit but for fund raising. But the travel tournaments is a different story.
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KentMurphy

96 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2019 :  18:49:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It’s been a while since I’ve done the all-star circuit , but when I did, I could remember parks like Barnett (Cherokee co, Whetherby, Shawnee Mtn and Hunter Park always having someone at the park entrance taking fees. It never occurred to me that people would be out there for any other reason than ball, but I’m sure if you were just going to walk/picnic they couldn’t stop you.

Now for travel, there are plenty of county/city parks used, that you can enter the park without coat, but you get close to the field entrances and they want the admission. Fowler, Midway, Patriots, Hobgood, etc.. They tourney orgs do not lease out the entire county park (re: picnic areas, walking trails, frisbee golf, etc). They rent the fields. They can’t control who comes into the park, but rather just try to charge admission for a game that you already paid for (tourney entry fee).

I will say, some orgs cut smaller parks or high schools great deals for use of their field(s). I’ve heard as much as $1000 per day, per field and let the school or org that is the primary leasee of the field keep all gate and concession profits.
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12uCoach

357 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2019 :  19:26:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you really want to make someone crazy, ask for a copy of their business license so they can collect admission.
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dgersh22

169 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2019 :  20:18:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Most of the county parks bid out their concessions stands to private individuals on a yearly basis, that is one of the big reasons you see the no cooler policy. That's even the typical policy for the rec ball leagues sponsored by the counties. on the gate fee policy, that is how most of the teams that hold fundraising tournaments make their nut. Most of the entry for the fundraising tourneys go to field rental, umpires, field maintenance and awards. Now the actual tournament companies that charge large entry fees and then charge x amount to get in that's another thing. I do know that cost vary from HS to HS as well as park to park. Our HS gets $90 per game plus concessions from the large tournament group.
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CobbBaseball

13 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2019 :  09:15:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,
As a tournament director, please let me put these fees in perspective.

The tournaments (all star and travel) are run by organizing agencies who charge registration fees (Training Legends, Grand Slam, Perfect Game).... These registration fees are used to pay 3 expenses: 1.) Agency Comission (usually 12-20%)... 2.) Umpires 3.) Tropies..... The park gets what is left over (usually very little)... However, the baseball organization is responsible for buying the chalk, lining the fields, cleaning the park, trash disposal, dugout and bathroom supplies..... This is where the gate fee comes into play.... We ask the parents of ONE or TWO teams to volunteer for the weekend to do all of these tasks.... Get there early, buy and haul concession supplies to the park, clean bathrooms, sweep dugouts, rake fields.... In exchange, any profit from gate fees goes to THEIR TEAM BUDGET..... The gate fee supports the team that has been assigned by the Baseball Organization at the park in exchange for cleaning the park, staffing the park, etc..... So objecting to a gate fee is equivalent to expecting a team to service the park for free..... The gate fee never goes to the Organizing Agency.... It always goes to the team whose parents showed up all weekend long, sat in the hot sun, hauled leaking trash, and cooked food in a 110 degree concession stand.... It is your call if you want to create a stink at the front gate and demand your access to the publicly funded parks.... My guess is most baseball teams will let you in to avoid the hassle of dealing with you..... You will be $5 richer, enjoying all the benefits of someone else's labor without paying for it, but you have become a smaller person for it... Pay the $5, support BASEBALL TEAMS, and be a good citizen of the community.... Corporate America is not profiting from these gate fees.... Volunteers are using them to fund their BASEBALL BUDGETS.....
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baseball713

60 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2019 :  23:17:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
CobbBaseball,

Agree on what you say for most (or all) of rec ball all star tournaments. But for the vast majority of travel tournaments (think PG, PBR/TBS, USSSA, Grand Slam), are the gate fees still going for the benefit of a park team or does it all go to the profit of the tournament organizers?
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CobbBaseball

13 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2019 :  11:16:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes... These organizations allow the home park teams to participate in the revenue, even for travel teams..... And it is a great financial boost to these teams, rewarding them for executing the plans and implementing the fan experience....My overall point is that no one is sitting on a yacht somewhere, making a small fortune running these tournaments off of the taxpayer's dime.... Your taxes funded the construction, maintenance and carrying costs of the park.... Organizing activities at the park is a monumental task, requiring lots of hours of work.... If you want to go to a park and listen to a concert, someone had to find the musician, build a stage, arrange for security, manage clean up, and take financial risk.... It is not unreasonable to ask the spectators and participants to pay for this activity, regardless of your tax burden.... Without these efforts, you would have unlimited access to a big empty park with no centralized activities.... Want to participate in these activities?.... Pay your fair share at the gate.... Otherwise, sit at an empty picnic table and listen to the birds and marvel and what a fantastic experience your tax dollars have provided....

These organizations could easily do away with the gate fee and just raise the entry fee while hiring workers to work the event, thereby keeping all of the revenue.... Rick Johnson would have nothing to complain about, but the teams would be worse off..... Currently, they share the revenue with youth teams and parks.... That should be applauded....
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Renegade44

211 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2019 :  17:59:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bullhockey.

I've prepared the tax returns for some of the promoters in different areas. I know exactly what the cash flow is. It isn't ocean going luxury yacht level. But it is million dollar lake home level with 4 jet ski's and both a pontoon party boat and top line bass boat level.
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Punishers

688 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2019 :  08:36:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shhhh. Can't talk about the money. Might get banned.

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44

Bullhockey.

I've prepared the tax returns for some of the promoters in different areas. I know exactly what the cash flow is. It isn't ocean going luxury yacht level. But it is million dollar lake home level with 4 jet ski's and both a pontoon party boat and top line bass boat level.


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CobbBaseball

13 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2019 :  11:48:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Let's not get off topic..... The question here is about gate fees.... Training Legends and Grand Slam (two that I have worked with) give the gate fees to the park or team that works it.... I have no idea how much revenue the proprietors declare on their 1099..... I doubt that you know either....

I see from your many posts (194 and counting) that you do not like the $ associated with Travel Baseball..... It seems that this hobby provides you no joy or satisfaction, based on your other posts... My question is simple: Why not set up a non-profit to compete with these guys.... Seems like the margins are high enough where you could easily be able to fill up your tournaments by doing it cheaper.... Tournaments are a commodity.... I would sign on and ask the park to host one of your not-for-profit tournaments...

Then again, there is always Badminton....

Who is John Galt?
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wareagle

324 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2019 :  11:50:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That probably only amounts to a small percentage. I somehow doubt that all that cash at the entry gate, concessions, etc gets reported
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Renegade44

211 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2019 :  22:14:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I enjoy the game enough to know EXACTLY what and who is ruining it at the youth level and where its heading at the high school level and beyond. The game certainly isn't what it used to be from a competitive level. Moneyball and the promoted element of 'play here, pay here, or be left behind' has ruined that.

Oh the non profit tournament idea....... see that's been thought of and tried in some areas............doesn't work real well for younger age groups. Cause part of the For Profit business model involves locking all the public fields up by contract priority and then deciding on the last day 'yeah we don't need that park this weekend, but we still are wink wink coming next weekend'. Otherwise known in the industry as field blocking, to limit alternatives.

Now at high school level and size field it becomes easier to organize a non profit or fundraiser for the school type tournament. But you aren't doing it at the local rec quad field setup.

Yeah I don't like what I see, so I guess baseball as a game isn't for me anymore. Cause I guess we all should just pay up and be quiet?

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CobbBaseball

13 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2019 :  08:06:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Complaining on these forums isn't a solution..... But, I guess misery loves company.... Best wishes...

Who is John Galt?
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Punishers

688 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2019 :  10:42:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually, that's what this form is for. More people read this than you would think of.
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Renegade44

211 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2019 :  18:02:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm fairly certain my answer to who is John Galt has most likely already been inferred. Fictional Ayn Rand capitalist hero. Took ball and went off with like minded individuals to the land of 'I'm entitled, you're not'. To live in some uptopian world where taxes are not necessary to invest in public infrastructure to facilitate commerce for all.

Baseball tournament promotion is no John Galt. That character would build his own fields with his own capital risk and conduct his own tournaments. Much like East Cobb initially did. Unlike what PG/Lakepoint did wallowing like pigs at the public funding trough, in a predesigned bankruptcy P3 partnership scheme.
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CobbBaseball

13 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2019 :  08:58:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sooooo, I am just going to get on with living my life now..... Good luck with your anger issues.... Best wishes to Renegade 44 and Punishers.... Keep calm and complain on.....
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Punishers

688 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2019 :  13:05:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
#CobbBaseballMatters
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