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 East Cobb, 643, Home Plate
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offspeed4

169 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2014 :  11:36:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
These three organizations seem to be the cream of the crop. What's the pros/cons of each 8-12 and then 13 and up? All three usually have multiple team options 8u-18u. Why would you pick one organization over the others?

East Cobb: most name recognition, elite teams, lack of field space to practice, more than one major team per age class

643: organized, focus on development, clearly has an A B and C team each age level, usually has at least one strong major team per age class

Home Plate: know for lots of field time with paid instruction, no clear A B and C teams, usually has at least one major team per age class

Diamond_dad

16 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2014 :  16:34:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't want to knock any organizations, but my experience with those organizations are as follows: EC, name recognition and a good organization with a couple of great teams at every age and the rest are average.
643: Good organization as well with fewer teams, but most teams are good.
HP: Good organization with a couple of good teams per age group.
Ok, my sons just turned 16 and have been playing baseball since they were 4. I've coached against and my kids have played against all 3 of those organizations. I don't see anything wrong with playing for either of those organizations, but I just think that there are a lot of organizations that are just as good nowadays. They can be found all over the metro area North, South, East and West. I just wouldn't limit my kids because they get noticed without playing for those 3. My philosophy was always to play against the best instead of trying to deal with the traffic and the distance to get to certain places for practice. My kids get professional instruction as well and nowadays you can get quality instruction in other places as well.
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Buckner

44 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2014 :  23:23:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a 16U as well and agree 100% with Diamond Dad. By the way, the best team at the Rising 16U level is not the Astros or the Cougars.
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in_the_know

985 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2014 :  12:24:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Buckner

I have a 16U as well and agree 100% with Diamond Dad. By the way, the best team at the Rising 16U level is not the Astros or the Cougars.



This is an interesting point Buckner makes. I certainly won't argue with him as I agree, and won't just limit his comment to the 16u group, but the OP's question has nothing to do with being on the best team. Frankly, by the time you hit 16u, most of the best "teams" are groups put together to compete for scouts at Perfect Game events and are a far cry from what we all considered "teams" at the younger ages. Many of these teams will have multiple PO's who will only come into town for their one or two starts, and not even stick around to see the tournament finish.

Speaking to the original question, there are pro's and con's to all three, many of which are easily found by searching this very question over the years. I'm not overly familiar with HP, so I won't comment. East Cobb acts almost like a franchise in that teams wear the name and pay the fees but the actual experience and quality will vary greatly based on team and coaching staff. 643 is much more consistent in what they teach and you'll frequently see coaches from multiple teams/ages coaching across any of their teams. Likewise with their practices which frequently may have players ranging between 11u to 17u on the field simultaneously working with multiple coaches.

Do your research and find what works best for your son. What quantity and type of instruction are you seeking and what environment fits him. Good Luck.
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patent pending

66 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2014 :  13:30:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My son has played for 2 of the 3. Has not played at 643. Pros and cons comes down to your needs and wants in a organization. Playing time for your son should be at the top of that list. Would he get a lot of playing time ? Or even make one of the top teams at these organizations ? Positions are usually hard to come by on these teams. They all have good players rising every year. So positions and roster spots on the top teams are hard to come by. At the older ages 16U and above all the teams are good. It will come down to pitching depth and extreme knowledge of how to manage a week long tournament. Remember At Perfect Game if you don't win your pool 99% of the time your done. Who is the best 16U team anyway ? I would be surprised if the coach of the team your talking about has more experience than the Astros coach. Or the ability to get any player they want to come play for them at any given time.
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ryaajus

23 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2014 :  16:00:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Patent pending, there are a lot of coaches that have a lot of experience, but anyone can coach a team of great players. I respect a coach who can win with the players who couldn't make those teams.
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BREAMKING

323 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2014 :  16:09:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would say roadrunners and Georgia Jackets are tough to beat for best team on northside. I thought Georgia Jackets was best 15u last year in the nation but that is just my .02 cents worth. Roadrunners have a heck of a group at 16u.
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patent pending

66 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2014 :  17:33:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ryaajus . I was referring to specific 16U National Championship experience. Same age group every year. Believe me it makes a difference. Anyone can not coach a team of great players and consistently get great results. The 16U Astros coach has done that for many years. Im not a Astro guy but do have a lot of respect for 16U Astro teams.
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Tribe

82 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2014 :  23:27:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This question comes up frequently. I'll give my take, but please don't consider it an endorsement or critique of any of the three.

East Cobb: has become a generic term. Their flagship teams are elite, and feature some of the best talent in the country (i.e. 18U Yankees). The top teams are all about the trophies, and will recruit nationally to win them (nothing wrong with that). Expect very little development, instruction, etc...that's your responsibility on the side. The talent level drops dramatically from there. They have diluted the heck out of their brand. Come one come all, with a saturation of teams at some age brackets it starts to look like a money grab. At ECB, you may find the best travel team in the country as well as the worst travel team in the country at any given age. Having said that, ECB has blazed the trail for everybody else.
Estimate: 100% of 18U Yankees are signed

643: All about development at the younger ages, all about player exposure at the older ages. Always competitive but seldom dominant...because they're not built that way. Highly qualified coaching. Expensive (they all are, I suppose). Less emphasis on promoting 643, more emphasis on promoting the individual player. DP is the most respected baseball guy in town. I hope they don't start fielding 4 teams at every age level. Estimate: 90% of 18U Cougars are signed

HP: Don't know as much about them, but I know they field competitive, well-coached teams consistently. Smaller, more attention to players. Good facilities. Good reputation. Always a threat to beat you in a big tournament. Wish I knew more about these guys.


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bballguy

224 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2014 :  09:19:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It seems like over the past few years that ECB is losing their key management. Academy personnel left to start Titans last year and one left to go to Team Ga this year. Any comments on this trend???

Edited by - bballguy on 08/20/2014 10:28:16
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momstheword

12 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2014 :  09:53:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
tribe, interesting info and good breakdown...you mentioned DP as most respected guy around, who are you referring to...would like to research that further.
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bballman

1432 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2014 :  11:05:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Something to add in regard to ECB vs 643. At ECB, development will depend totally on the coach you get. At 643, they are more of a program and from the top age groups to the young age groups, they all preach the same philosophy - development of skills. At the older ages, 17 & 18 really, you have a choice to go to practices or not, but if you go, you will work on reps and get coaching. Tribe is also correct in that you will see practices being held with multiple age groups and multiple coaches from different age groups. They may have a 2 hour practice with teams from 15-18 and all the coaches from those age groups there. All practicing together. I think this is really good for the younger ages as they get to interact with and see the older kids in action. Kind of an inspiration for them.

At ECB, all the teams are really independent. They won't practice together, they may only have one hour a week of field time assigned to them. And if a tournament is scheduled during that time, you lose your practice time. In the older ages on the top teams, they recruit polished kids. They don't really practice, they just play in tournaments. We're talking the 16 Astros, 17 Braves and 18 Yankees as the top teams. Anything under those teams are just regular travel teams and you may or may not get a good coach. You may get on a team that is very good, but the coaches aren't. Or you could get on a really bad team, but the coaches are very good in terms of development. Much research is needed before picking a team. If you are offered a spot on one of the top teams, be ready to have them bring in kids from anywhere in the country as the year goes on. They are really into trying to win the big tournaments and have the top talent in the country on the team. Play time will be very hard to come by. 643 will pick their teams at the beginning of the year and that's who they stick with. In the fall, they generally combine the 17 & 18 year old teams for tournaments, but they don't bring in any outside people.

Anyway, I agree with what Tribe said, just want to add some detail to it.

HP has a pretty good reputation, but just the fact that no one on here knows a great deal about them says something in and of itself. There are other good programs out there as well. Nelson Baseball is well respected, Windward Baseball, Big Stix down in McDonough, Team Elite in Gwinnett. There are many more and there are many independent teams out there. There is certainly no shortage of teams to choose from.

Hope all this helps some.
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bama21

278 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2014 :  11:43:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You have many great choices on where to play in Ga and for the kids that is great. If your on one of the top teams at EC, you want have any problem getting field time, the 16u Astros get field 1 all the time. 643 is growing and I would imagine field time is getting tight there as well, maybe they have to practice multiple teams on 1 field. As far as other choices: Team Ga, Nelson Baseball, Team Elite, HP, Game On are all quality programs that produce results.

The most important thing to consider is playing time, playing time, and playing time, if your not playing then your not getting better, especially for 13u and up, you should already know how to play the game and now your just fine tuning and polishing your skills. Also, I don't care how much you practice or who your coach is, you just can't simulate that game pressure in practice.
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CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2014 :  15:46:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Home plate baseball is in Peachtree city.

6-4-3 DP Athletics is in Marietta, near the 120 loop, exit 263 off of 75.

ECB's primary facility is technically in Marietta, but you can almost throw a rock into Woodstock from the field.

What is it that they say.....location, location, location?????

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AA17Dad

211 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2014 :  09:55:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My kid played on the Major HP team for 3 years. Good folks, Great facility. Lots of oversight from the Lloyd, Rodney and the others. That said, anyone can write a check and play at HP. Your experience will differ greatly.

From there we made the jump to the #1 team at EC, and then to another top tier team the following year.

Then to 643.

I would rate them in this order

643 by a LONG way......no close second, for all the reasons Tribe and BBallmom stated. plus I will add that it is DP's ( And he is one of the most respected guys in the game ) mandate that they coach in a positive environment. Unlike EC. They make a commitment to their teams. They do not recruit after they pick teams. Best development program around Period.

From there HP would be second. Great guys and facility.

EC. If your son is 16 or older and can earn a starting position on one of their top tier teams it may be a good option. Under 16 I would stay clear. Too much stress and drama.

None of the other listed are real programs.....a warehouse with cages does not a program make. You need fields and philosophy driven oversight.
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bama21

278 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2014 :  13:59:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is not one organization in the U.S., let alone Ga, that will have a 100% satisfaction rate. It is personal to each kid and family and their own personal experiences. You will find happy families and not so happy families at every organization.
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Diamond_dad

16 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2014 :  19:55:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in again since my kids have played at Home Plate and East Cobb. Even though, my kids played on some of the top teams at EC and HP. I actually liked both organizations, but I like HP much better. I think there are a few quality organizations that no one has mentioned that provide excellent training and opportunities in my opinion...Gamers, Myscoutday,OTC, and the up and coming foundation sports. These are great organizations that all have professional training and play against the best competition and are alternatives to those who cant make teams like the Astros and the Cougars etc and those that want quality training and visibility.
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billbclk

164 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2014 :  12:31:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by offspeed4

These three organizations seem to be the cream of the crop. What's the pros/cons of each 8-12 and then 13 and up? All three usually have multiple team options 8u-18u. Why would you pick one organization over the others?

East Cobb: most name recognition, elite teams, lack of field space to practice, more than one major team per age class

643: organized, focus on development, clearly has an A B and C team each age level, usually has at least one strong major team per age class

Home Plate: know for lots of field time with paid instruction, no clear A B and C teams, usually has at least one major team per age class



This all depends on what you are looking for. Some parents/players appear to be interested more in winning Perfect Game Tournaments and World Series games (none of which really matter when trying to get to the next level). True you can get more exposure in those high profile games but that’s only if you are on the field.

Focus on playing time, mound time and at bats. If your son needs/wants instruction then get it on your own or find a team where the coach’s philosophy matches you son’s playing style. The best recruiter for your son is you and your son. If your player is a 9 to 10 on the Prefect Game scale then teams will find him. If he is a 7 to 8 you have to find them.

Every year players get a chance to play at the next level who did not play for the “elite team” for each of the three organizations listed in this thread. What they did do was play these teams and others in showcase and tournament games. They were able to still get the exposure but also they got the valuable playing time they needed to develop.

By the way my son played for Jim Lovejoy’s ECB Patriot organization. After a year at Prep school in Alabama he is now a freshmen and playing at the US Coast Guard Academy. Jim Lovejoy played a huge role in making that happen.
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LittleDawg

91 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2014 :  10:14:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aroundthehorn88

There seem to be more and more training "Academies" Don't know much about Gamers or MyScoutday but looking for feedback on some of these closer to me. I am hearing a lot of talk about Next Level which is at Lake Point and Titans now in Cartersville.

Pros / Cons of each? Looking for honest feedback on the training aspects of the academy and as well as the instruction on some of the teams that come out of those.

Thanks in advance.



Agree with billbclk. It really depends on what you are looking for, for your son. I can't speak to the teams coming out of all of these programs but I do know they are always competitive. My older boys have been involved in some better known Programs and they enjoyed their time and they won a lot. However, winning does not mean development and when they get to high school, it will show.

For my youngest, he's played in some big name programs early on and now taking this season to focus on true development.

We recently attended one of the Next Level sessions at Lake Point and were thoroughly impressed by the coaches. I can't speak to how competitive their teams will be, especially given it's their 1st year in the area but if the coaching is consistent throughout, they will be successful.
That's what hurt my middle son. He played for the big programs and unfortunately the coaching philosophy seemed to differ year to year. Something else to look out for when getting private lessons. Consistency is key. Good Luck
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JackieRobinson

2 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2014 :  11:52:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gotta call BS on the 6-4-3 myth. I agree that DP is a marketing genius, but his program is no more a player development haven than the the top tiered teams at ECB. I have never had a kid at Home Plate, but I have at ECB, 6-4-3. With 3 boys who have played at varying times with these programs and others, it has been my experience that your interview with the coach may be your best bet for determining what kind of an experience you're going to have. I've seen 6-4-3 teams add players for Cooperstown just like alot of the other teams. I've also heard 6-4-3 reward their winning teams for WINNING not for player development. I'm not saying that's wrong, but it is contradictory to the vibe that 6-4-3 puts out there. ECB has it's pitfall like anywhere else as well. Do your due diligence and talk to people who know about a team from FIRSTHAND knowledge and then hope for the best.
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DecaturDad

619 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2014 :  19:45:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JackieRobinson

Gotta call BS on the 6-4-3 myth. I agree that DP is a marketing genius, but his program is no more a player development haven than the the top tiered teams at ECB. I have never had a kid at Home Plate, but I have at ECB, 6-4-3. With 3 boys who have played at varying times with these programs and others, it has been my experience that your interview with the coach may be your best bet for determining what kind of an experience you're going to have. I've seen 6-4-3 teams add players for Cooperstown just like alot of the other teams. I've also heard 6-4-3 reward their winning teams for WINNING not for player development. I'm not saying that's wrong, but it is contradictory to the vibe that 6-4-3 puts out there. ECB has it's pitfall like anywhere else as well. Do your due diligence and talk to people who know about a team from FIRSTHAND knowledge and then hope for the best.



I guess we will each have our own opinion. My son played for ECB and had a great time. But now in high school, we are VERY happy with his move to 643. The constant development and focusing on what it will take for these boys to play in college has been incredible. While I think a top player will do fine at any of the top organizations around town, my personal opinion is that 643 does a great job of developing older players.
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AA17Dad

211 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2014 :  11:50:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JackieRobinson

Gotta call BS on the 6-4-3 myth. I agree that DP is a marketing genius, but his program is no more a player development haven than the the top tiered teams at ECB. I have never had a kid at Home Plate, but I have at ECB, 6-4-3. With 3 boys who have played at varying times with these programs and others, it has been my experience that your interview with the coach may be your best bet for determining what kind of an experience you're going to have. I've seen 6-4-3 teams add players for Cooperstown just like alot of the other teams. I've also heard 6-4-3 reward their winning teams for WINNING not for player development. I'm not saying that's wrong, but it is contradictory to the vibe that 6-4-3 puts out there. ECB has it's pitfall like anywhere else as well. Do your due diligence and talk to people who know about a team from FIRSTHAND knowledge and then hope for the best.



I'll call BS on your BS. I would venture to say you have never been on a " Top Tier EC Team " nor made the cut at 6-4-3.

Marketing genius?? could you share an example? Danny and his program are so low key they don't even like the attention they get from this forum.

So they picked up some kids for Cooperstown? Big deal. They may very well have had some families that chose not to participate. It is a very long and very expensive trip. I seriously doubt that ANY of the regular players were short changed. Cooperstown is not exactly the pinnacle of competition. It is all about the baseball experience. I would commend 6-4-3 for including as many young ball players as possible in this experience. And considering 6-4-3 does not over load their rosters ( unlike some other ) they had plenty of room to add a few.

6-4-3 does make a commitment to their team. EC programs do not. They can and will take your money and put your kid on the bench or cut him out-right. That simply doesn't happen at 6-4-3.

On our 6-4-3 team. EVERY Player played and EVERY player sat. They moved players around and played them in different positions ( For Development ) My kid got to play some innings in the outfield for the first time in his life. Their practices are the most dynamic I have seen. Add to it that they do EVERYTHING in a positive atmosphere. They don't do all the stupid stuff like, run poles for losing, errors, or called 3rd strikes.

Rewarded the team for winning???? really???? It is a competition, nobody said they don't try to win. But they to place player development ahead of winning.

How exactly do you reward development???

I will agree with your last statement. Talk to someone that has FIRSTHAND experience. NOT someone on a forum that claims he heard something about a program.

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CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2014 :  09:35:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"They don't do all the stupid stuff like, run poles for losing, errors, or called 3rd strikes. "

Um, I don't think it's stupid to have kids, after the game, run poles for losing (if it was based on errors), errors or called 3rd strikes.

Ever been in the military? The term "drop and give me 20" sounds familiar!

The coaches are out there to TEACH, why not punish the children in a constructive manner for not performing the way they were taught? Isn't that what us parents do as well?

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AA17Dad

211 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2014 :  10:53:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl

"They don't do all the stupid stuff like, run poles for losing, errors, or called 3rd strikes. "

Um, I don't think it's stupid to have kids, after the game, run poles for losing (if it was based on errors), errors or called 3rd strikes.

Ever been in the military? The term "drop and give me 20" sounds familiar!

The coaches are out there to TEACH, why not punish the children in a constructive manner for not performing the way they were taught? Isn't that what us parents do as well?





Ever seen a college team or pros running poles? For punishment???

Mistakes are part of the game. EVERYONE makes them...even pros. Punishing kids for making mistakes on a baseball field is not coaching...or parenting, any clown can stand around beating his chest,screaming at kids, and some folks may be impressed. I'd rather see a coach, well coach: train and guide. Be thoughtful and constructive, hold them accountable, set a good example. Foster the love of the game.

There is not an adult alive that cannot punish a kid. It requires no skill at all. It invokes the "fear of failure" which leads to more mistakes and less effort and shuts down more teams than any other single factor I can think of. Kids that play loose and without the fear of failure will out perform a more talented team that is so uptight with fear that they stand on the field hoping the ball isn't hit to them.

That said....things like bad attitudes, not hustling...not paying attention and any errors associated should be disciplined. Playing time is a great tool.

As long as the effort is there punishing mistakes is counter productive.

Military....why yes...1st 75th Rangers. It's the military, lives are on the line. It isn't youth baseball . But thank you for asking.
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DecaturDad

619 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2014 :  12:33:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl

"They don't do all the stupid stuff like, run poles for losing, errors, or called 3rd strikes. "

Um, I don't think it's stupid to have kids, after the game, run poles for losing (if it was based on errors), errors or called 3rd strikes.

Ever been in the military? The term "drop and give me 20" sounds familiar!

The coaches are out there to TEACH, why not punish the children in a constructive manner for not performing the way they were taught? Isn't that what us parents do as well?



This past weekend, I watched another team loss the game before my son played. As I was sitting in the stands waiting for our game to start, I listened to the coaches from the losing team spend 20 minutes telling the kids everything they had done wrong. This was a 17u team. The kids knew what they had done wrong. Their main mistake (If you want to call it a mistake): They played a team that was more talented then they were.

I am sure that after 5 minutes, every kid on the team had shut out what the coaches were saying. I did not see anything constructive come out of that conversation.
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CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2014 :  14:45:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I will admit there are coaches out there that use fear, intimidation, and humiliation to get their point across and they wind up with kids that have ulcers...I'm not talking about THOSE coaches.

I'm talking about the coach that is teaching, the coach that is drawing the best out of every player that he/she can, and yes I'm talking about youth baseball. College and Pro's are the best of the best, and how did they get that way? They were drilled over and over and over until they were nearly flawless. Will they make mistakes yes, but at that level they have already been subjected to running the poles, they took pride in running the poles the least amount, or running it as the leader of the pack.

Should 6 year old's have to drop and give the coach 20, no. Should 12-13-14-15...YES! If they are consistently not performing to expectations what is the solution...just bench them...kick them off the team?

Our society is based on expectations...fall short of the expectations and there are repercussions. Maybe the kid has to write lines, maybe the kid got spanked, maybe the kid had to wear a sign proclaiming what he did....maybe the adult got fired, maybe the adult got arrested...

Fall short of expectations and there are suppose to be consequences, but not a lot of kids from this generation are actually getting that...maybe they should go run some poles.
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