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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
 Posted - 09/22/2014 : 11:12:48
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I ran across a similar thread on another baseball site and wondered if this is something people are doing in North Georgia?
In short, the poster said something like High School Baseball wasn't going to get his kid a scholarship. Devoting time to HS ball only took away time from PG events and showcases that would get his kid noticed.
Thoughts?
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jmac83
46 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2014 : 14:38:11
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| God forbid a kid should play ball with his schoolmates, enjoy some good times, make some lasting memories. It might distract him from the laser focus needed to attain that one-quarter scholarship offer from Backwater University. |
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mikepayne
173 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2014 : 15:33:56
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jmac83,
Options are never a bad thing. Maybe the kid and his parents do not want to be full time fund raisers on a team with 24 players with playing time scarce. It is an honor to wear your schools colors no doubt but there are plenty of good times to be had playing for a non-school team. You may even get better coaching where the coaches have to compete for players. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2014 : 15:35:05
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So the PG events and showcases for high school aged kids don't really begin until summer and continue through fall. PG recognizes that most 16-18 yr old kids are playing for their high school teams Feb through May and there isn't much density of high talented players available for the caliber tournaments they host to make.
Unless the real interest is that a player would train and take lessons during the high school season, I don't see a huge advantage. Any real advantage would likely be lost as the player would be a few months behind his peers in taking reps and seeing live pitching during that time.
Definitely a lot of truth to the landscape changing with respect to using the PG & summer circuit to be seen and make visits during the fall recruiting season. You can get scholarship opportunities without playing HS, but I certainly don't see HS preventing anyone from being recruited. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in a single poster who likely has some sour grapes with the high school coach. I'm with jmac. The high school season and summer circuit can both be a lot of fun. Both are very different, but I wouldn't exclude HS ball or ever consider that it hinders an athlete from playing at the next level. That said, these days, I wouldn't rely on ONLY HS ball if you want to play at the next level.
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Edited by - in_the_know on 09/22/2014 16:33:14 |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2014 : 19:36:52
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I also can't see not playing for a high school team, if your reason is lack of prep and exposure. While that may be true, playing for your school is just a great memory. I was talking to a dad who's son has played with my son a few times over the years. His son is nationally ranked by PG, but he plans to play for his very weak, single A school this year. Now, he is also on one of the big name travel teams, so he not counting on his high school experience to take him to the next level.
My son played for his high school last season as a ninth grader at a new school. He has now made some great friends who have made the whole high school transition easier. We never looked at high school ball as his path to the next level. We see it as a way to enjoy the game and make some great friends.
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2014 : 10:26:22
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quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
I also can't see not playing for a high school team, if your reason is lack of prep and exposure. While that may be true, playing for your school is just a great memory. I was talking to a dad who's son has played with my son a few times over the years. His son is nationally ranked by PG, but he plans to play for his very weak, single A school this year.
We never looked at high school ball as his path to the next level. We see it as a way to enjoy the game and make some great friends.
This^1000 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2014 : 09:27:05
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| So...has anyone out there gone this route of not playing HS ball in favor of just travel ball? How did/does that work for you? |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2014 : 11:10:12
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
I ran across a similar thread on another baseball site and wondered if this is something people are doing in North Georgia?
In short, the poster said something like High School Baseball wasn't going to get his kid a scholarship. Devoting time to HS ball only took away time from PG events and showcases that would get his kid noticed.
Thoughts?
Here's the thing CaCO3Girl. HS ball is played in the spring. Very little recruiting is done in the spring by colleges because they are in the midst of their own season. In addition to that, PG does not put on many events during the spring because of this. They may have one or two national individual showcase type events, but nothing on any kind of big scale.
My son plays college baseball. They are doing baseball stuff 6-7 days a week during the spring. The first 6 weeks of his season last spring, they went 7 days a week without a break. They got a day off after 6 weeks and everyone was so excited, it was crazy!! They are playing or practicing no less than 6 days a week from January when they get back to school until sometime in May. There really is no time for the coaches to go out and recruit unless they happen to be playing somewhere close to a kid they know about is playing. And the chances of that are pretty slim.
So, the reality is, there is no advantage to playing somewhere other than high school during the spring for recruiting purposes. Summer and fall is a different story. Most recruiters are out attending tournaments (mostly PG) during the summer and many colleges put on prospect camps in the fall that may be useful to attend. In these cases, playing on a travel team in the summer is advantageous as HS teams usually don't play in these events. And for the fall, a player can usually get away from the HS team (if they even have a fall team) to go to the showcase type events.
With all that being said, I agree with others here that there is much more to be gained, on a personal level, with playing for your HS than with some other organization. There are some extreme situations where someone might be motivated to not play with their HS team, but for most kids, playing with their HS is what should be done in my opinion.
JMO and observation. Hope this helps some. |
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agent21
97 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2014 : 16:42:21
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| if summer is the main recruiting season and most showcases are held in the fall, do any players ever get recruited out of a showcase? |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2014 : 17:41:40
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| Sure they do. Probably a good idea to go as a junior and get on the radar. But since NLIs aren't signed until November of senior year, some schools may want you to come to give them a final look at you before making an offer. As I'm sure you've heard, the process gets started earlier and earlier, especially for the studs, but there are usually plenty of spots open going into fall of senior year for this to make sense. Especially for schools other than the top 25 - 50 D1 schools. |
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ryaajus
23 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2014 : 11:08:05
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| I've personally talked to college scouts that say they do not come to high school games because they are involved with their teams during the winter and spring, but on the flip side, I've talked to pro scouts who've told me that they mostly go to the high school games. Maybe it really depends, because I've seen some of the college sites have questionnaires that only request your high school information. Also, I would really love to know if prospect camps are worth it, because I really don't really have much faith in Perfect Game. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2014 : 14:30:50
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First of all, there is a huge difference between getting looked at by college recruiters and by pro scouts. Most kids getting looked at by pro scouts have already committed to a college. These guys are the elite of the elite. If you don't have a college commitment by HS season in your senior year, you are not going to have pro scouts coming to look at you during your HS season. I have seen pro scouts at HS games and they were there to watch seniors who were eligible for the upcoming draft. One was committed to Georgia and the other to Clemson.
As far as prospect camps are concerned, some are worth it, some are not. It also depends on the player. If you are going to stand out above all the other participants, then it is worth it to go. The biggest part of moving on to the next level is exposure. If coaches don't know about you, they are not going to recruit you. Exposure comes in many ways. First thing you need to do is assess the level at which your son is capable of playing. Whether it be high level D1, mid level D1, high level D2, low level D2 or high or low level D3 (don't forget about JUCO and NAIA). All of us want to think our kids can play high level D1, but there are only so many slots and the guys who play there are very good and have the physical size those programs are looking for. If you've ever been to a 17 yr. old PG event, you will begin to realize how many good players are out there competing for a spot on a college recruiter's radar.
It is not a bad idea for your son to sit down and make a list of all colleges he may be interested in going to. Some for each level. Then begin sending emails out. Maybe with a you tube link to a short highlight video. Maybe they will see something they like. One advantage of PG is you can send your summer schedule out to the coaches. Give them an idea of when you are playing so they can come see you. Just going to the PG events is not going to get you recruited - unless you are a 6'3" pitcher throwing 95 mph. You have to generate the interest. It is a lot of work and a lot of stress and worrying.
If you are on a good summer team that has coaches with college contacts, that will help greatly. These coaches will often reach out to their contacts and promote your son. The college recruiters will come out to their games just to see the players on that team. Sometimes they will like what they see, but the reputation of the travel coach will determine whether the colleges will recruit from his team. Often times, the summer teams will put on a "scout day" at particular colleges to let their players play in front of that college's coaches. Many time opportunities arise out of those.
Bottom line is, there are TONS of kids who are capable of playing college baseball. Especially in the baseball hot bed around Atlanta. College coaches have a lot of kids to pick from. So you need to get out and promote yourself. You have to play in the PG tournaments, if for no other reason than to allow college coaches that are interested you see you play.
My son got interest from attending a few select prospect camps. Even got a decent offer from attending one. So choose carefully where you attend and make sure that you stand out when you do. Attend PG events and let colleges that you are interested in know when you are playing. Whatever you can do to increase your exposure and let these guys know you are out there and can help their program you need to do. |
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ifly1989
771 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2014 : 15:55:40
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I think any player that can play for thier HS team should do it. As has been said there is great pride in wearing your school colors and playing with friends. That being said unless you are Top level D1 or Pro talent you are likely not going to get "seen" playing ONLY for your HS. Most recruiting is being done in the Summer and Fall travel ball seasons and thus your likelihood of being "seen" is much greater in doing that. Again there is NO reason not to play HS ball if you can as there is virtually NO recruiting in the spring that you would miss out on. I see this as a personal choice of each player. The thing is if you dont play HS ball then where are you going to play. Competitive travel ball is not active for this age group during the spring. WE all know that with this sport you MUST play as much as possible to stay sharp. This leaves you with few choices during this time...but There are options...Southern Prospect, ECB, and WGB to name a few all have spring programs that are not the typical Rec ball calibre.
On the flip side of this, it IS possible to get recruited without ever playing on your HS team. Our program has succeeded in getting several players scholarships who never suited up for the HS teams. Those players just need to be open minded about their options for play at the next level as we believe there is a school for every one of the kids in our program. |
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ryaajus
23 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2014 : 15:18:34
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| I took my kids to a prospect camp yesterday and they had a Q&A session with one of the coaches and the question I asked was do they come see their possible recruits playing high school ball or travel ball. He said it is extremely rare that they will come to a high school baseball game to scout. He said all of their recruiting is done at scouting events or fall and summer travel ball tournaments. There are also pro scouting days and a few occur in the metro area and a those, you can get your kids seen by pro scouts especially if they aren't on the radar. |
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billbclk
164 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2014 : 16:53:10
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We pulled our son off his HS team during the summer before his senior season. You can call me and I will talk to you about it as much as you want to hear. (678) 538-7336
The bottom line is because of his playing on his travel team he was able to get an appointment to the US Coast Guard Academy to train to become an Officer (and play baseball). We should not forget that the end game for the vast majority of boys is to go to a college that has the academic program that they want to continue their development. Someone mentioned that
“It might distract him from the laser focus needed to attain that one-quarter scholarship offer from Backwater University.” . . .
. . . well if that backwater school just happens to be the one that has your program and that ¼ scholarship for baseball plus whatever else money you can qualify for will get you there, then mission accomplished.
By leaving his HS team events were set in motion that allowed our son to get a $400,000 education for free. Otherwise he was accepted to the Citadel and we were planning on trying to off-set the $41,000 per year tuition cost.
We had that “extreme situation” that bballman mentioned that made us make the decision to pull him from his HS team. Oh and by the way he wanted to stay but it was a parent decision. If you stay true to the end game of getting to your college of choice and not just playing baseball in college then you might see that the choice is easier than you think.
Some of you keep mentioning the pride of playing for your school but you don’t seem to mention the responsibility that the school and coaching staff has to do right by its players and parents. Our HS coach loved to say that he was going to do what was right for the program so that he could paint on the fence the success that the program had in the post season. So after selling all the christmas trees, letter writing campaigns and other fundraisers to get money for the program that made players run for missing practice and games to attend church and family member funerals we said enough is enough. Fortunately for our son we realized that the road to the getting to college has multiple paths.
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2014 : 09:45:28
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billbclk,
Congrats to you and your son and best of luck to him. Your post is certainly an example that you don't have to play high school ball and many may have situations similar to your where you don't want to play for the high school and would be very justified not too.
The OP was specifically questioning the logic behind not playing HS because it was a distraction on being seen and recruiting. Most of responded to that logic, and the general consensus is that it doesn't really make any sense to not play HS if that's the ONLY concern.
I'm not about to defend that HS coaches are the best or are doing what's in the best interest of the players and families. Sorry to hear that your situation was bad enough to have to leave the program. As for the pride of playing with your classmates and for your high school. My sons all had varied experiences, but no regrets of playing for their high school.
Finally, I'd definitely argue that your son is getting a "free" education at the CGA. All of us typing here today are paying his tuition (as well as you) every April 15th.
In all seriousness, congrats to your son and I hope he enjoys the Academy. |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2014 : 14:35:31
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quote:
Originally posted by ryaajus
I took my kids to a prospect camp yesterday and they had a Q&A session with one of the coaches and the question I asked was do they come see their possible recruits playing high school ball or travel ball. He said it is extremely rare that they will come to a high school baseball game to scout. He said all of their recruiting is done at scouting events or fall and summer travel ball tournaments. There are also pro scouting days and a few occur in the metro area and a those, you can get your kids seen by pro scouts especially if they aren't on the radar.
I bet we'll have plenty of pro scouts at our games this year....colleges will be playing ball so i doubt many will/can show up. |
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Diamond_dad
16 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2014 : 19:04:26
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I bet we'll have plenty of pro scouts at our games this year....colleges will be playing ball so i doubt many will/can show up.
Critical Mass does have a point. We had pro scouts at our travel ball practice and they did actually tell us that they go to the high school games. My question...how many HS players will get drafted from one school? Normally, they're at a HS game because they are looking at someone specific. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2014 : 20:23:55
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| I would love for my son to play high school baseball and football IF he still has a desire to do so when the time comes but some high school coaches frown upon two sports. In a case like this playing travel ball and no high school ball may be the best/only option. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2014 : 10:54:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Diamond_dad
My question...how many HS players will get drafted from one school? Normally, they're at a HS game because they are looking at someone specific.
If you have one kid on your HS team that is a draft prospect, you are lucky. If you play a team that has a draft prospect sometime during the year, you are lucky.
Think about it. There are approximately 130,000 HS senior baseball players. The MLB draft is now 40 rounds x 32 teams and that equals around 1280 kids that will be drafted. Say 2/3 of them are from 2 year or 4 year colleges, that leaves 400-450 HS kids nationwide that will be drafted. Say it's 500 HS kids, that is a grand total of 0.38% of HS seniors that will get drafted. That's a pretty small amount. So, like I said, if your team has one guy - or if you play one team that has a guy during the season that is a true draft prospect, you are lucky.
quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
I would love for my son to play high school baseball and football IF he still has a desire to do so when the time comes but some high school coaches frown upon two sports. In a case like this playing travel ball and no high school ball may be the best/only option.
hshuler, sounds like your son needs to make a decision about what he really wants to do and what the priority will be for him. If he's not in HS yet, no problem. But once he gets to HS, there's really no reason he can't do more than one sport, but at some point he will need to come to the conclusion of which is more important to him. I would think there would be very little to gain by not playing baseball in the spring. I imagine that your son's other sport is football. The only conflict would be spring training. And in HS, there is not much baseball going on outside of HS. No tournaments, no showcases, not much of anything. So, he would be losing out on a lot of reps and practice by not playing in the spring so he can attend one week of spring football practice.
Not trying to preach, just putting some perspective out there. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2014 : 11:47:20
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@bballman - First of all, I didn't take it as preaching and appreciate the feedback. Playing multiple sports seems to be the exception now, at least for the larger schools...not saying never happens.
He's a 7th grader so he has a couple of years before he decides. It will be interesting to see because the high school program is a perennial contender, and from what I hear, the coach likes full participation in the summer workout program. So, there may be a conflict but we'll cross that bridge eventually. |
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agent21
97 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2014 : 13:27:50
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| Impressive calculations ballman. they do put things into perspective. thanks! |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2014 : 11:53:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass
quote:
Originally posted by ryaajus
I took my kids to a prospect camp yesterday and they had a Q&A session with one of the coaches and the question I asked was do they come see their possible recruits playing high school ball or travel ball. He said it is extremely rare that they will come to a high school baseball game to scout. He said all of their recruiting is done at scouting events or fall and summer travel ball tournaments. There are also pro scouting days and a few occur in the metro area and a those, you can get your kids seen by pro scouts especially if they aren't on the radar.
I bet we'll have plenty of pro scouts at our games this year....colleges will be playing ball so i doubt many will/can show up.
What I've seen is that they come to see one or two players. If they go out of the game, the scouts beat feet to the exits. |
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Playing Travel ball only and avoiding HS Team?
