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AllStar
762 Posts |
 Posted - 03/26/2015 : 08:07:55
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...watch HS games and if they do, they just watch the kid they came specifically to see...
http://www.forsythnews.com/archives/24362/
A couple of lessons here.
1) Bring it every minute you're on the field. You never know who's paying attention.
b) Don't believe everything you read on an internet message board. 
Great kid, great family, great story. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 10:28:26
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| I cried just reading it! |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 11:43:05
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| Great story but I don't know who would tell someone that. They get paid to find talent and are always looking for talented kids who maybe below radar. Thanks for sharing! |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 13:46:16
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quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
Great story but I don't know who would tell someone that. They get paid to find talent and are always looking for talented kids who maybe below radar. Thanks for sharing!
It's been a standard line on this board, or at least it used to be, mostly from people who don't like HS ball. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 14:42:57
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I think what most people have said - myself included - is that scouts will usually only come to a HS game to see a particular player. And that is true. Even in this case, the scout was there to see a particular player. That is NOT to say that if some other player stands out to that scout, the scout won't pursue that other player. It does happen. Not all that frequently, but it does happen. Note that in the article, the player was subjected to many more evaluations before the team actually drafted him. That doesn't take away from the fact that he was "discovered" at this HS game.
Also note, I have found it far more frequent that scouts - from MLB - will attend HS games than recruiters - from colleges - will. Once again, that is not to say that it doesn't happen, but far less frequently. Either way, I would not depend on a scout or recruiter showing up to one of your HS games in order to reach the next level. Most kids must do much more promotion work and there are FAR more kids recruited and scouted at the big summer events than at HS games. More than likely, that pro scout was at the HS game in the first place to see a kid that he saw at a summer tournament and wanted to see him another time prior to the draft.
None of that is to take away from the heartwarming story being told here. It really is a pretty cool thing to have happen. But, I just wouldn't depend on something like this happening to your kid.
Allstar, your rule number one - Bring it every minute you're on the field. You never know who's paying attention - certainly applies. And it applies where ever your ballplayer is. Both on and off the field.
Oh yeah - I loved HS ball when my son was playing!!  |
Edited by - bballman on 03/26/2015 14:51:22 |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 15:09:25
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Great Article!
C'mon Rippitt - "There's no CRYING in baseball!"
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 15:12:39
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The short story is if you took a poll right now 90+% of the College ball players were contacted because of their Travel Ball teams. You may even be able to go 99+%!
These are the harsh truths of baseball. Here is an excerpt off of a website:
********
The following is a compilation of the odds for a high school player to either get drafted by a professional team or play college baseball.
Making the Pros
We will make some assumptions on the total numbers of players eligible each draft year.
High School Players @ 114,159 seniors
NCAA (4 year schools) @ 12,581 juniors & seniors
NJCAA (2 year schools) @ 11,520
COA (@ year schools) @ 2,175
That gives us 140,435 "draft eligible" players.
140,129/1,500 = 94
1 player in 94 will be selected in the Major League Baseball Draft
Playing in College
High School seniors = 114,159
College "seniors" (or sophomores when related to juco's) = 13,137
That means their are 114,159 graduating high seniors versus 13,137 slots open
114,159/13,137 = 10.1
1 high school player in every 10 has a chance to play in college
These numbers are not completely accurate, due to several reasons (foreign born players, players dropping out of school, etc.). But it is a fun look "At the Numbers."
******
Now if you are a scout or a head coach are you going to spend your time at a High School Baseball game with 2-3 very talented kids, or are you going to see the 18 Very talented travel ball players all on one team?
Is it possible to get recruited right out of HS for College and MLB without doing travel ball, yes of course! Is it likely, no, no it isn't. But I would agree that a player should play EVERY game with the same amount of effort and heart, no matter who they think is watching. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 15:20:14
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I think what most people have said - myself included - is that scouts will usually only come to a HS game to see a particular player. And that is true. Even in this case, the scout was there to see a particular player. That is NOT to say that if some other player stands out to that scout, the scout won't pursue that other player. It does happen. Not all that frequently, but it does happen. Note that in the article, the player was subjected to many more evaluations before the team actually drafted him. That doesn't take away from the fact that he was "discovered" at this HS game.
Also note, I have found it far more frequent that scouts - from MLB - will attend HS games than recruiters - from colleges - will. Once again, that is not to say that it doesn't happen, but far less frequently. Either way, I would not depend on a scout or recruiter showing up to one of your HS games in order to reach the next level. Most kids must do much more promotion work and there are FAR more kids recruited and scouted at the big summer events than at HS games. More than likely, that pro scout was at the HS game in the first place to see a kid that he saw at a summer tournament and wanted to see him another time prior to the draft.
None of that is to take away from the heartwarming story being told here. It really is a pretty cool thing to have happen. But, I just wouldn't depend on something like this happening to your kid.
Allstar, your rule number one - Bring it every minute you're on the field. You never know who's paying attention - certainly applies. And it applies where ever your ballplayer is. Both on and off the field.
Oh yeah - I loved HS ball when my son was playing!!
Agreed on all of the above and you are dead on the money. This was basically lightning striking.
They had done all the due diligence and Belmont certainly probably saw him during the summer on one of his travel teams, or at their showcase if they had one. It's just that there is a lot of slagging HS ball on this board, not so much now as in the past, and that was one of the main digs at it that some, obviously present company excluded, used. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 15:34:17
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I think what most people have said - myself included - is that scouts will usually only come to a HS game to see a particular player. And that is true. Even in this case, the scout was there to see a particular player. That is NOT to say that if some other player stands out to that scout, the scout won't pursue that other player. It does happen. Not all that frequently, but it does happen. Note that in the article, the player was subjected to many more evaluations before the team actually drafted him. That doesn't take away from the fact that he was "discovered" at this HS game.
Also note, I have found it far more frequent that scouts - from MLB - will attend HS games than recruiters - from colleges - will. Once again, that is not to say that it doesn't happen, but far less frequently. Either way, I would not depend on a scout or recruiter showing up to one of your HS games in order to reach the next level. Most kids must do much more promotion work and there are FAR more kids recruited and scouted at the big summer events than at HS games. More than likely, that pro scout was at the HS game in the first place to see a kid that he saw at a summer tournament and wanted to see him another time prior to the draft.
None of that is to take away from the heartwarming story being told here. It really is a pretty cool thing to have happen. But, I just wouldn't depend on something like this happening to your kid.
Allstar, your rule number one - Bring it every minute you're on the field. You never know who's paying attention - certainly applies. And it applies where ever your ballplayer is. Both on and off the field.
Oh yeah - I loved HS ball when my son was playing!!
+1
We've had multiple pro and D1 scouts as several of our home games this year. Between all of them they were there to watch three of our players. So 18+ players had an opportunity to play in front of scouts in those game. Did they take advantage of AllStar's 1 & b above? Who knows, but suffice it to say that the reason the story he linked is so inspiring is because it's the exception and not the rule.
I wouldn't rely on HS as the only avenue to the next level. Likewise, I wouldn't discount the value of it either. I think the story linked serves to make both points. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 16:03:50
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And by the way, by doing a quick search, you will find that this kid attended 5 Perfect Game tournaments and one Perfect Game Showcase in which he scored a "9". He also played for 2 of the bigger "academy" teams. Take it for what it's worth (probably not much coming from me  ).
And for the record, I think every kid should play for his HS if at all possible. Not because they want to get recruited from there, but because he wants to play for his school and with his friends. There is something special about it. I also can't help but think that there will be some difficult questions to answer from scouts/recruiters as to why you didn't play on the HS team. |
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SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 16:23:21
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| Congrats to that young man!!! You never know when it can turn in your favor. |
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T13
257 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 22:31:38
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| Seriously folks...if your kid is good enough, they will find him no matter who he plays for or where he plays! And if you are really concerned about your kids future - academics should be your top priority nut some travel team... Geez |
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brball
615 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 23:26:57
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quote:
Originally posted by T13
Seriously folks...if your kid is good enough, they will find him no matter who he plays for or where he plays! And if you are really concerned about your kids future - academics should be your top priority nut some travel team... Geez
Agreed... But a lot of these kids want academics and baseball at the next level. Geeez! |
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brball
615 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2015 : 23:34:35
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| To be honest, my 13U takes his school work more serious than his baseball and just happens to be a really good ball player (loves pitching). We'll see which one pans out! |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2015 : 07:59:22
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
And by the way, by doing a quick search, you will find that this kid attended 5 Perfect Game tournaments and one Perfect Game Showcase in which he scored a "9". He also played for 2 of the bigger "academy" teams. Take it for what it's worth (probably not much coming from me ).
And for the record, I think every kid should play for his HS if at all possible. Not because they want to get recruited from there, but because he wants to play for his school and with his friends. There is something special about it. I also can't help but think that there will be some difficult questions to answer from scouts/recruiters as to why you didn't play on the HS team.
All true. They had done their due diligence and the plan was to play in college.
And while he played travel ball at a young age, he didn't do any of that "big time" stuff until he was 16. His 15U team was an independent team put together by word of mouth, no tryouts, and made up of Cobb, Forsyth, Hall and Barrow county kids.
13 players, I think, almost all of whom could pitch. 3 dad coaches (not me or his dad) and a lot of success. We were fortunate (Preparation + Opportunity) to be a part of that team. I kept score and kept my mouth shut. It was awesome. As much fun as our son (and his parents) had in 8 seasons of travel ball.
Definitely the rare exception to the rule. It will be fun to follow him. And the kid from Sprayberry that the scout went to see and is now in the Red Sox organization.
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Edited by - AllStar on 03/27/2015 09:30:42 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2015 : 08:56:42
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quote:
Originally posted by T13
Seriously folks...if your kid is good enough, they will find him no matter who he plays for or where he plays! And if you are really concerned about your kids future - academics should be your top priority nut some travel team... Geez
Once again T13 I think you are dead wrong about this...a player will be "found" if he promotes himself TO BE found! If you sit back on your heels and wait you will be waiting a LONG TIME in 99.999% of cases.
Don't leave it to chance, if a player is good enough to play in college and beyond and that is his dream then why not promote the crud out of them to increase his chances of being found?
We are in GA home of East Cobb, 643, the Team Elite's and several other well known and respected travel teams...there are plenty of these high level teams for scouts and coaches to look at they don't need to "waste" their time at small town high school games to discover "the one", they already have 300 very talented players lined up! |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2015 : 09:46:04
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In all fairness to T13, he does have a point. The reason this kid stood out is because he was talented and could play. It was not like he didn't have any offers. So, T13 is correct in that regard. He was a talented kid and to his point, he was found.
Could the kid in this article have been 'lost in the crowd' because there are so many players at a PG Showcase? I don't know the answer to that question but it's a thought. I hear people talk about a players having a bad tournament and it hurts them. Maybe, but scouts still look for bodies and tools. Would you take a 5'8/140lb decent athlete who hit .600 in tournament but didn't have the best mechanics over a 6'3" kid who has great mechanics and was a great athlete but hit .200 for the tournament? Slumps happen in baseball and scouts understand that. Tools and upside still rule in the world of scouts but there are exceptions.
My college coach/current Yankees scout is constantly in the car this time of year watching high school games. The key is not discovering kids who everyone know about, it's finding those diamonds like the scout in this story did.
Lastly, a national champioship winning coach was just at local high school game Wednesday night so it happens. |
Edited by - hshuler on 03/27/2015 10:13:34 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2015 : 09:52:26
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quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
And by the way, by doing a quick search, you will find that this kid attended 5 Perfect Game tournaments and one Perfect Game Showcase in which he scored a "9". He also played for 2 of the bigger "academy" teams. Take it for what it's worth (probably not much coming from me ).
And for the record, I think every kid should play for his HS if at all possible. Not because they want to get recruited from there, but because he wants to play for his school and with his friends. There is something special about it. I also can't help but think that there will be some difficult questions to answer from scouts/recruiters as to why you didn't play on the HS team.
All true. They had done their due diligence and the plan was to play in college.
And while he played travel ball at a young age, he didn't do any of that "big time" stuff until he was 16. His 15U team was an independent team put together by word of mouth, no tryouts, and made up of Cobb, Forsyth, Hall and Barrow county kids.
13 players, I think, almost all of whom could pitch. 3 dad coaches (not me or his dad) and a lot of success. We were fortunate (Preparation + Opportunity) to be a part of that team. I kept score and kept my mouth shut. It was awesome. As much fun as our son (and his parents) had in 8 seasons of travel ball.
Definitely the rare exception to the rule. It will be fun to follow him. And the kid from Sprayberry that the scout went to see and is now in the Red Sox organization.
I love that kind of story. I have ALWAYS said that it doesn't matter where you play until you get into HS as long as you are getting good coaching and playing good competition. My son played for a group of dad's until he got to HS and he turned out fine. But I've always been pretty much ridiculed that times have changed and things are different now than when my son grew up. This is a perfect story that playing on one of the big high profile teams and winning all these tournaments isn't important in the younger ages. Sounds like this kid got taught the fundamentals from a good group of dads and they kept the game fun, which helped keep him playing. Both my son's an my best baseball memories come from the 12,13 & 14 years with a group of 4 dads coaching. We were competitive and played all the best teams, but weren't a "superstar" team. Just a bunch of kids from Roswell. At 14 we made it to the semis or finals of 7 major tournaments in a row. Didn't win any, but we competed. We just didn't have the pitching depth to make it thru the last game. But we had one heck of a lot of fun!! |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2015 : 10:00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
......And while he played travel ball at a young age, he didn't do any of that "big time" stuff until he was 16. His 15U team was an independent team put together by word of mouth, no tryouts, and made up of Cobb, Forsyth, Hall and Barrow county kids.
13 players, I think, almost all of whom could pitch. 3 dad coaches (not me or his dad) and a lot of success. We were fortunate (Preparation + Opportunity) to be a part of that team. I kept score and kept my mouth shut. It was awesome. As much fun as our son (and his parents) had in 8 seasons of travel ball.
One thing this shows me is that below 15/16, the team is not as important as some people think. The kids should be having fun and improving. But having fun is the most important part. My son never played for a team with a paid staff until the fall of 10th grade. He was lucky enough to have great dad coaches and private lessons along the way. Now, in 10th grade, he plays for a top team, has done a PG showcase and a few collage showcases. No one has looked back and asked why he played for XX at age 12, 13, 14.
I truly believe 10th grade is when people start to notice kids. Before that, it is building the foundation and love for the game. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2015 : 10:35:24
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quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
In all fairness to T13, he does have a point. The reason this kid stood out is because he could play. It was not like he didn't have any offers. So, T13 is correct in that regard. He was a talented kid and to his point, he was found.
OK, lets look at some numbers. You can take a look at CaCO3Girl's numbers, but I think there is one number that is off. The draft was just recently lowered to 40 rounds, so with 32 MLB teams, there are 1280 kids drafted each year. Generally about half of them are HS kids. So that's about 600 HS kids drafted each year and there are around 114,000 HS seniors. That is a rate of 0.5% of all HS senior baseball players. How many of them do you actually think were "discovered" at a HS game? My guess is not that many. Since this is the only story that has surfaced about this happening this year, could this be the only one? My guess is that nearly all of the 600 HS kids were NOT discovered at a HS game. I don't know about you guys, but I would not want to leave the fate of my child's future to a chance that is around a 0.0009% chance of happening. Can it happen? Yeah, it did. But it is pretty darned unlikely.
CaCO3Girl also mentioned about looking at all the teams around here that have superior baseball players. Wait until you start playing in some of the PG tournaments and see how many kids are out there trying to make to the next level from across the country. There are tens of thousands of kids from across the country that all want to play baseball at the next level. College coaches and pro scouts have SO many kids to choose from, it is mind boggling. Look at some college rosters. Nearly all have kids from all over the country playing for them. Most colleges do not just recruit locally, they recruit regionally or nationally. It is VERY competitive. Once again, I would not leave my kid's future up to a chance encounter at a HS game.
Now, if your kid is a pitcher throwing 98 mph, chances are good he'll be in the "if you're good, they'll find you" category. But even then, you will need someone coming to a HS game to see someone else that they saw in the summer in order for that kid to be seen. Once he's seen, he'll get offers, but he needs to be seen or heard about before he signs somewhere.
I don't believe in the "if you're good, they'll find you" philosophy. If you're good, go someplace where someone can see you, and then they'll find you. You're not going to be "found" sitting on the couch at home no matter how good you are. Chances of being "discovered" at a HS game by a pro scout are in the 0.0009% range. Why take that chance???
And by the way. This kid did NOT get his college offer by being "discovered" at a HS game. He went out and got himself noticed playing summer ball. Probably went to some college camps. I saw some YouTube videos of him that he probably sent to some schools to promote himself. I also saw that he was interested in some schools like Georgia Tech, Clemson, Kennesaw and South Carolina among others that obviously took a pass on him. Even though this pro scout saw something he liked in this kid, these top level colleges did not see the same thing. I'm not saying he isn't good. He's obviously very good, but that is how competitive this whole recruiting thing is. Passed up by major D1 colleges, but picked up an MLB team. It really is a luck of the draw thing that I would not count on for sure.
If you want to live by that philosophy and your kid is not statistically (not just your opinion) in the top 1%, he'll wind up ending his baseball career on the HS field. Just sayin". |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2015 : 11:18:45
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@bballmam - I agree with your advice of all the work that needs to be done to promote maximum exposure. I am not saying don't play in showcases. All I am saying is that a kid was talented and a MLB noticed it at a high school game. I am sure that his Belmont offer was a result of his PG participation. He would have gotten his share of looks if he would have chosen Belmont (a good program) as well. They play lots of heavyweights like Vandy and UT every year.
The kid could obviously play so I glad that he's getting his shot, no matter the reason. As far as the top 1%, I am not delusional. He needs all the help he can get to be considered in the top 50%...lol! |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2015 : 11:40:45
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I could have just shared the link and said here's a nice story, but that wouldn't have been nearly as fun.... 
Speaking of fun, what ever happened to baseballpapa? |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2015 : 11:57:56
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quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
@bballmam - I agree with your advice of all the work that needs to be done to promote maximum exposure. I am not saying don't play in showcases. All I am saying is that a kid was talented and a MLB noticed it at a high school game. I am sure that his Belmont offer was a result of his PG participation. He would have gotten his share of looks if he would have chosen Belmont (a good program) as well. They play lots of heavyweights like Vandy and UT every year.
The kid could obviously play so I glad that he's getting his shot, no matter the reason. As far as the top 1%, I am not delusional. He needs all the help he can get to be considered in the top 50%...lol!
Hey, I'm glad for the kid. It's an awesome story!! All I'm saying is that you REALLY cannot depend on something like that happening. If this scout got sidetracked on this day and decided to go see the other kid at a different game, this kid would be going to Belmont, not the Dbacks. Shoot, if he was in a bad mood or got in a fight with his wife and was on the phone with her when this kid made his first throw to second, he may not have made the recommendation. You just never know. And I'm sure this kid did a lot of work to get seen by Belmont.
And think about this. There were at least 16 other kids that played in that game that did not get picked up by this Dbacks scout. Just because someone shows up, it doesn't mean you are going to get an offer.
Once again, I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm saying you can't depend on it happening. Most of our kids are not quite as good as we like to think they are. It's natural as parents. The vast majority of our kids are going to have to get in front of as many people as possible to try to find the right opportunity for the chance to play at the next level.
What if your kid wants to play for Georgia and that's all he wants to do? What if he definitely has the talent to play at Georgia - no question. But, what if your son is a catcher and Georgia already has 3 catchers? He won't be playing at Georgia no matter how good he is. He's going to have to find another team to play at that has a need for an up and coming catcher. See, it's not just about talent, but matching that talent with a team that has a need for your skill set. It's not easy.
So, if your son gets recognized by a pro scout at a HS game and gets drafted, that's awesome!! But I just wouldn't count on that happening. Build yourself a safety net to have somewhere to play baseball after HS just in case you don't get struck by lightning. |
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zwndad
170 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2015 : 12:53:33
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WELL DONE, ALLSTAR!
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
I could have just shared the link and said here's a nice story, but that wouldn't have been nearly as fun....
Speaking of fun, what ever happened to baseballpapa?
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2015 : 13:18:29
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@bballman - Agreed!
I was at a high school game last year and was chatting with a few scouts who came to see a pitcher and two of them had no idea who the best hitter in the state was. The kid was ranked top three in his class and they had no clue...lol! |
Edited by - hshuler on 03/27/2015 14:54:28 |
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BaseballMom6
233 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2015 : 14:12:34
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bballman I completely agree with this "What if your kid wants to play for Georgia and that's all he wants to do? What if he definitely has the talent to play at Georgia - no question. But, what if your son is a catcher and Georgia already has 3 catchers? He won't be playing at Georgia no matter how good he is. He's going to have to find another team to play at that has a need for an up and coming catcher. See, it's not just about talent, but matching that talent with a team that has a need for your skill set. It's not easy."
I wonder though why you and others don't recognize that this may be the same reason some players don't make/play for their HS teams? The only difference is that in HS you can't just select a different HS that has a need that you can fill. So before putting down kids as not worthy of college because they didn't play for their HS, consider that the reason why may simply be a glut at their strength position that keeps them off the field. It may have nothing to do with how good a player they are if the players ahead of them are also excellent. And yes, several comments in this thread and others imply directly and indirectly that a player that can't make their HS squad must not be any good. I don't buy into that. |
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The next time someone tells you scouts don't...
