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rippit
667 Posts |
 Posted - 04/24/2015 : 12:03:06
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| As a position that is...not the actual square bag. Just curious. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 12:42:40
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| I think the perception is that you can put anyone over there. You don't really realize how valuable a good one is until you have a bad one. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 13:31:10
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quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
I think the perception is that you can put anyone over there. You don't really realize how valuable a good one is until you have a bad one.
AGREE!
The bad rep is due to the fact that 1B is only "important" for a short period of time. If it's a hard hit ball 1B may not even be in the play, once the runner passes it there is nothing else going on there. Also, with the majority of batters being righties there are going to be 10 times as many balls hit to 3B than 1B, so fielding is not much of an issue either.
The general populous thinks with those limitations you don't have to put an especially skilled player there, it is usually reserved for a heavy hitter. But, as hshuler said, once you see a good one it's hard to go back to just having a body there with a glove.
Not everyone is born with the ability to be a good hitter/pitcher/catcher/fielder.....and not everyone is born with the skills to be able to be a good "picker"...it's a much harder tool to learn, in my opinion, than even hitting. You either have that hand eye coordination and reaction time to track a ball coming in while you remain stationary on that bag or you don't, and it is SOOOO obvious when 1B just doesn't have it! |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 14:27:59
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quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
You don't really realize how valuable a good one is until you have a bad one.
Ain't that the truth! |
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NF1974
62 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 15:15:09
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| I agree with the comments. I would further add that having a good first baseman instills more confidence in your infielders. As a former 3rd baseman,with not the most consistent arm, it was a big confidence booster knowing I had a good glove at first. There is a lot to the position such as footwork, pick-offs and bunt coverages that goes unnoticed until you have someone over there that does not have the skills. A good first baseman can cover up a lot of errors. |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 18:10:12
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| I don't know that it gets a bad rap, but the plain fact of the matter is that there are a lot more people capable of playing a competent 1B than say SS or C or CF. Because of that, you generally have to be a better hitter to make it as a 1B than at those other positions as you move up the ladder age wise. |
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AUBB
73 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2015 : 14:46:17
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To me a 1st baseman has to have these three defensive qualities:
1. Ability to snag/scoop..... poorly thrown balls.
2. Ability to stretch..... for poorly thrown balls.
3. Ability to catch....... poorly thrown balls.
Question on the table......is the error on the poorly thrown ball by the 3rd baseman that is potentially catchable.....2 feet short/2ft over their head,etc or the 1st baseman for not picking it/snagging it/catching it?
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gtown71
86 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2015 : 14:55:47
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| The sad thing is that a good first baseman can make all infielders look great. They are expected to catch everything including short hops but rarely get the respect of a shortstop. Put a bad one over there and watch the field percentages drop. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2015 : 09:08:06
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quote:
Originally posted by gtown71
The sad thing is that a good first baseman can make all infielders look great. They are expected to catch everything including short hops but rarely get the respect of a shortstop. Put a bad one over there and watch the field percentages drop.
This is evident by a little clip on Twitter currently floating around. Andrelton Simmons goes deep in the hole then makes an off balance throw that everyone is in awe over. The receiving end of that throw was Freddie Freeman in a full split meeting that throw to beat the runner. No one says anything about that. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2015 : 09:57:06
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quote:
Originally posted by AUBB
To me a 1st baseman has to have these three defensive qualities:
1. Ability to snag/scoop..... poorly thrown balls.
2. Ability to stretch..... for poorly thrown balls.
3. Ability to catch....... poorly thrown balls.
Question on the table......is the error on the poorly thrown ball by the 3rd baseman that is potentially catchable.....2 feet short/2ft over their head,etc or the 1st baseman for not picking it/snagging it/catching it?
The error goes to the thrower. The only time a 1B is attributed an error is if the ball is HIT at him and he misses it.
And yes, when you have a 1B that won't come off the bag, can't identify a pick-off move, can't stretch out and read the erratic ball as it is coming in, well it can bring down the entire game...much like a catcher who can't keep the ball in front. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2015 : 10:34:05
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
The error goes to the thrower. The only time a 1B is attributed an error is if the ball is HIT at him and he misses it.
Just to clarify, any time a ball is thrown in the dirt, error goes to the fielder. If a ball is thrown in the air and dropped by or missed for some reason and the scorer feels that the ball should have been caught, the error could go to the 1B on the throw.
Generally speaking on the OP, I'm not sure I've ever heard the position of first base getting a bad rap. Not exactly sure where that is coming from. Maybe a player who plays first getting somewhat of a bad rap at times. The only reason I can think of for that is that there are times a player is put at first because it is the only place to put that player. Maybe the player is too slow for the outfield or middle infield. The player can hit, so coach wants him in the lineup, but not fast enough to play another position. Maybe he can play at 3rd, but for some reason the coach feels his options are limited to 1st base. If he's bad at scooping balls, he may eventually get moved to DH.
So, I don't think it's the position that may get a bad rap - everyone knows a good 1B can salvage a lot of outs, but maybe the player is getting a bad rap because of limited options of where he can play.
Just a thought. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2015 : 10:45:03
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
The only time a 1B is attributed an error is if the ball is HIT at him and he misses it.
This isn't true. A ball thrown to the 1B that is a routine catch, i.e., 2b throws a batted ball to 1B, chest high and in position that it would be a routine catch in time to retire the runner, and the 1B misplays the ball to the extent that the runner reaches safely, it is an error on 1B. Official scoring rule is below (note that the age old myth that the ball MUST be touched by the fielder to be an error is proven incorrect in the official scoring rule as well):
10.12 Errors
An error is a statistic charged against a fielder whose action has assisted the team on offense, as set forth in this Rule 10.12.
(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:
(1) whose misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) prolongs the time at bat of a batter, prolongs the presence on the bases of a runner or permits a runner to advance one or more bases, unless, in the judgment of the official scorer, such fielder deliberately permits a foul fly to fall safe with a runner on third base before two are out in order that the runner on third shall not score after the catch;
Rule 10.12(a)(1) Comment: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error. For example, the official scorer shall not charge a fielder with an error if such fielder fields a ground ball cleanly but does not throw to first base in time to retire the batter. It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through a fielder's legs or a fly ball falls untouched and, in the scorer's judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, the official scorer shall charge such fielder with an error. For example, the official scorer shall charge an infielder with an error when a ground ball passes to either side of such infielder if, in the official scorer’s judgment, a fielder at that position making ordinary effort would have fielded such ground ball and retired a runner. The official scorer shall charge an outfielder with an error if such outfielder allows a fly ball to drop to the ground if, in the official scorer’s judgment, an outfielder at that position making ordinary effort would have caught such fly ball. If a throw is low, wide or high, or strikes the ground, and a runner reaches base who otherwise would have been put out by such throw, the official scorer shall charge the player making the throw with an error.
10.13 Wild Pitches And Passed Balls
(a) The official scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball is so high, so wide or so low that the catcher does not stop and control the ball by ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. The official scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball touches the ground or home plate before reaching the catcher and is not handled by the catcher, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. When the third strike is a wild pitch, permitting the batter to reach first base, the official scorer shall score a strikeout and a wild pitch.
rkbenn
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2015 : 11:30:49
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The question was...and I should have included it in my reply:
"Question on the table......is the error on the poorly thrown ball by the 3rd baseman that is potentially catchable.....2 feet short/2ft over their head,etc or the 1st baseman for not picking it/snagging it/catching it?"
My answer was based on the premise of a "POORLY THROWN BALL" ...but I agree I should not have used the word "ONLY"...but in the example given the ball is in the dirt, way over their head, and coming in a tumbled mess...I have never heard of a 1B given an error on a ball that was poorly thrown to those extents.
But hey, please correct me if I am wrong. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2015 : 12:19:49
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
The question was...and I should have included it in my reply:
"Question on the table......is the error on the poorly thrown ball by the 3rd baseman that is potentially catchable.....2 feet short/2ft over their head,etc or the 1st baseman for not picking it/snagging it/catching it?"
My answer was based on the premise of a "POORLY THROWN BALL" ...but I agree I should not have used the word "ONLY"...but in the example given the ball is in the dirt, way over their head, and coming in a tumbled mess...I have never heard of a 1B given an error on a ball that was poorly thrown to those extents.
But hey, please correct me if I am wrong.
My reply was simply to clarify. Many people read this forum with varying levels of experience and knowledge. Read as written, someone might have taken it as fact that the only time 1B is charged as an error is on a ball hit to him, which isn't the case. Wasn't a personal attack on you, apologies if it came across that way. Was just trying to make sure information posted is accurate. |
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tbaillie2
120 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2015 : 13:01:13
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Anyone who thinks one can 'hide' a kid at 1B doesn't get the game.
I guess I haven't even been aware that this 'perception' of 1B is out there. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2015 : 15:00:16
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No problem in_the_know, like I said I shouldn't have used the word "only"...and should have included the question I was addressing.
tbaillie2...sadly I have heard that at 9u and below you put one of your best infielders at 1B...at 10u and above you put the kid who can't move well (maybe he's overweight, or just uncoordinated), at 1B as long as he can hit. There must be many coaches buying into this because if you go to any 11/12 or 13u tourney and take a look on the fields I would suspect 9 out of 10 times the biggest kid on the field is at 1B.
Unless people can think of another reason to put a big guy there...other than the height advantage for the high misses????? |
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SOGAS
143 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2015 : 16:55:36
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| Not sure they get a bad rap however, they do get very little respect from many Coaches who do not know the real value of having a great 1st baseman. A lot of Coaches think they can just throw anyone over there and get the job done after all, anyone who can catch can play 1B. I must warn you, those are the Coaches that are not very good. That would be like saying anyone can make a lineup and flash a bunch of signs. My point is that every position on the field is important. On defense other than catching and pitching, there are more plays involving your 1st baseman than any other position. |
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UPPERDECKER
34 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2015 : 13:32:13
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If anyone thinks you can "hide" a player
at First Base take a look at Game 6 of the '86 World
Series!! Sorry, Red Sox fans! |
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SOGAS
143 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2015 : 07:24:13
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| Ouch upperdecker, he's my good friend. |
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UPPERDECKER
34 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2015 : 09:27:44
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I grew up watching Mr. Buckner play, no disrespect
intended. I'm not a Sox fan, but even I
felt terrible. Just saying, that even at 1B,
agility and footwork is a must. |
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Why does 1B get a bad rap?
