Author |
Topic |
Panther21
30 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2018 : 17:48:30
|
I have noticed each travel team - program charges different rates. I understand the money goes to gear, bags, etc , Plus entry fees. So some of the bigger programs:teams are treating like a business. Is that a correct assumption? |
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2018 : 07:03:08
|
Yes.
Gear, tourney fees, coaches fees, practice field fees, baseballs...this can all vary greatly.
Gear: Getting a bag and matching helmets, pants included? Three jerseys 4 hats...etc. Tourney fees: Playing 8 TC, Playing 8 PG...these prices vary greatly! Coaches: How many paid coaches do you have? Practice fields....even at places like east cobb the teams are required to have an additional practice field that they have to pay for.
Costs will vary greatly!
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2018 : 07:56:50
|
It is a business. All about the money and pushing false hopes. Ever notice that when you talk to them you will never get a simple answer to a simple question? Instead you get a sales pitch with them attempting to divert providing a solid answer. |
|
|
turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2018 : 08:58:16
|
When you're talking about an operating budget (for JUST a team) being north of $20K-$25K (some as much as nearly $48K), you can bet it's treated like a business, or it better be... Now, some 'programs' (orgs, or 'academies') treat each team as a 'cash cow', where they collect dues from each player, it goes into a gigantic fund, and then the org redistributes based on priority (re: marquee team/age gets first dibs), and it trickles down to there, as a 'need' exists. For some, it's blatantly obvious when every player is paying 'xyz' dollars, but those on team A get more tourneys, more instructor-led practices, etc, where team B is treated like the red-headed step child. |
|
|
Panther21
30 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2018 : 21:50:10
|
Punishers - YES!!! I know exactly what you are talking about. Those are the ones I would think you would need to stay away from. I don't really see a problem if these organizations/programs are making money after the expenses are paid for. Yes, with that much in operating funds, there is no other way to treat it, but as a business. My son plays rec and I have had two coaches approach me saying they are starting a new travel team next season. I think I am missing out on a business opportunity. :-) Thank you for the responses. |
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2018 : 06:56:57
|
quote: Originally posted by Panther21
Punishers - YES!!! I know exactly what you are talking about. Those are the ones I would think you would need to stay away from. I don't really see a problem if these organizations/programs are making money after the expenses are paid for. Yes, with that much in operating funds, there is no other way to treat it, but as a business. My son plays rec and I have had two coaches approach me saying they are starting a new travel team next season. I think I am missing out on a business opportunity. :-) Thank you for the responses.
Everyone has their own reasons for going to Travel Ball. How old is your son? |
|
|
turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2018 : 08:13:02
|
quote: Originally posted by Panther21
Punishers - YES!!! I know exactly what you are talking about. Those are the ones I would think you would need to stay away from. I don't really see a problem if these organizations/programs are making money after the expenses are paid for. Yes, with that much in operating funds, there is no other way to treat it, but as a business. My son plays rec and I have had two coaches approach me saying they are starting a new travel team next season. I think I am missing out on a business opportunity. :-) Thank you for the responses.
For independent teams, such as what it sounds like you're approached with, and no 'corporate overhead' (re: org or academy), then there's no real money to be made, or shouldn't be made. When the 'mom and pop' team starts a team, accountability and team funds should ALWAYS be transparent. It's hard to 'make' money, if you're requested for, and provide receipts for purchases, and provide copies of account (bank) statements. Unless there is a line item to pay the dad's, which I doubt would fly. |
|
|
Panther21
30 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2018 : 01:48:03
|
Makes sense. My son is 10. I don’t have an issue with org. or program making money. The parents need to do their homework if they don’t want their son playing for a program that is running it like a business. |
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2018 : 07:44:19
|
quote: Originally posted by Panther21
Makes sense. My son is 10. I don’t have an issue with org. or program making money. The parents need to do their homework if they don’t want their son playing for a program that is running it like a business.
Um, East Cobb, 643, and Team elite are some of the most nationally recognized teams in GA, and they all run it like a business. |
|
|
SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2018 : 11:39:51
|
Yeah the reality of it is, most all of the programs are ran like a business. If they were not, then most would not survive. The trick to landing on a team satisfy-able to each individual is knowing the coaches and holding them accountable. This means speaking to them multiple times before you agree to play on that team. You have to let them know good or bad where you and your son stand and what you expect. By doing this, it won't make it perfect, but it will definitely let that coach know that he is on your radar.
When you are assertive with people, it lets them know that you are not going to be taken advantage of. Now this won't make the entire team perfect, but most of the time it will cover your son. In the end, that is all you can ask for. You can't control the entire team.
I will tell you one more thing that will help in the long run. Don't be afraid to go in different directions and try different organizations out. It will help you meet new people and see how programs are ran as a whole. It will also give your son exposure on many levels and make him better. |
Edited by - SuperStar on 04/20/2018 12:47:49 |
|
|
Bombernation
51 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2018 : 17:15:22
|
With all due respect to the OP, it is an individual that has yet to navigate the travel ball world. If your kid has a skill set that allows him to make the top teams of the 643 / Astros / Team Elite teams from 10U through 16’s and beyond, then you understand that playing on a team with an operating budget of 40k plus every year means that the org that runs like a “business” is also in the “business” of making sure your kid is exposed professionally to the D1 world in a way that you may not otherwise have access to.
If my son was regularly being selected for the lower teams within these top orgs I would possibly consider looking into other options. The juice has to be worth the squeeze, and an honest assessment of your sons talent should always lead the way. |
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2018 : 07:24:56
|
quote: Originally posted by SuperStar
Yeah the reality of it is, most all of the programs are ran like a business. If they were not, then most would not survive. The trick to landing on a team satisfy-able to each individual is knowing the coaches and holding them accountable. This means speaking to them multiple times before you agree to play on that team. You have to let them know good or bad where you and your son stand and what you expect. By doing this, it won't make it perfect, but it will definitely let that coach know that he is on your radar.
When you are assertive with people, it lets them know that you are not going to be taken advantage of. Now this won't make the entire team perfect, but most of the time it will cover your son. In the end, that is all you can ask for. You can't control the entire team.
I will tell you one more thing that will help in the long run. Don't be afraid to go in different directions and try different organizations out. It will help you meet new people and see how programs are ran as a whole. It will also give your son exposure on many levels and make him better.
Talk with the coach, sure. Get the coaches opinion on where your son will be in his eyes, i.e. starter, fighting for a spot, he's the bottom of the team...etc...absolutely. You need to know how much playing time to expect if you agree to that team.
Telling the coach what you expect this season and where you stand...um....I'd be careful with that. |
|
|
Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2018 : 09:11:13
|
Refer to Bombernation above. Agree 100%. |
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2018 : 10:54:47
|
quote: Originally posted by Bombernation
With all due respect to the OP, it is an individual that has yet to navigate the travel ball world. If your kid has a skill set that allows him to make the top teams of the 643 / Astros / Team Elite teams from 10U through 16’s and beyond, then you understand that playing on a team with an operating budget of 40k plus every year means that the org that runs like a “business” is also in the “business” of making sure your kid is exposed professionally to the D1 world in a way that you may not otherwise have access to.
If my son was regularly being selected for the lower teams within these top orgs I would possibly consider looking into other options. The juice has to be worth the squeeze, and an honest assessment of your sons talent should always lead the way.
You do not have to play for a well known program to get exposure. When you really dive down into it a lot of the top players are recruited to play for these orgs for free anyway with a lot of other kids just footing the bill. The fact is you need more than just the exposure or skills to get in a D1 school. This is why you see a lot of kids going to the draft cause they dont have the grades to offset the 20% scholarships that D1 schools give. I know many parents who have spent more than 4 yrs tuition on baseball from youth to HS and will never re-coupe the rewards.
With youth sports being a billion dollar business, everyone is trying to get their hands into it. All about the kids???? Yeah right. |
|
|
SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2018 : 13:20:03
|
quote: Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote: Originally posted by SuperStar
Yeah the reality of it is, most all of the programs are ran like a business. If they were not, then most would not survive. The trick to landing on a team satisfy-able to each individual is knowing the coaches and holding them accountable. This means speaking to them multiple times before you agree to play on that team. You have to let them know good or bad where you and your son stand and what you expect. By doing this, it won't make it perfect, but it will definitely let that coach know that he is on your radar.
When you are assertive with people, it lets them know that you are not going to be taken advantage of. Now this won't make the entire team perfect, but most of the time it will cover your son. In the end, that is all you can ask for. You can't control the entire team.
I will tell you one more thing that will help in the long run. Don't be afraid to go in different directions and try different organizations out. It will help you meet new people and see how programs are ran as a whole. It will also give your son exposure on many levels and make him better.
Talk with the coach, sure. Get the coaches opinion on where your son will be in his eyes, i.e. starter, fighting for a spot, he's the bottom of the team...etc...absolutely. You need to know how much playing time to expect if you agree to that team.
Telling the coach what you expect this season and where you stand...um....I'd be careful with that.
Maybe that last part about "what to expect" didn't come out quite right! LOL! Maybe I should have said, what are your expectations of this team and where or what do you see happening with this season? |
|
|
bkball
173 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2018 : 14:33:07
|
Friend of mine runs an Elite 16U team. No bells and whistles, does not get paid to coach. They compete with any teams in GA and in the country. They only carry really good major players but get this. $500 for the whole season. They have 3 uniforms, they bring their own helmets. They play PG and some out of state tournaments. This year going to charter a bus to Florida with TV's the whole nine. Great experience for the kids. Does not have a kid on the team. He gets sponsors to help with cost. Last year gave every kid a $300 dollar glove, and turfs. Talk about a great deal! Already has 3 kids getting looked at by D-1 Schools, one NAIA commit. No one knew who this team was until after a couple of PG tournaments. Then the word got out. What is amazing is he tells me he has parents flipping and flopping and can't pull the trigger on playing with him sometimes because they were told by another program we got this kid drafted and that kid here and yeah but that kid would get drafted no matter where he played. And the price is 3K or 4K more. As a parent to me it's a no brainer. Last year took 3 out of state tournaments and paid for all hotel costs too for the kids, not the parents. |
|
|
Bombernation
51 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2018 : 14:36:02
|
I agree, if you can ball you don’t necessarily need to pay academy type money to get into D1. I can only speak from personal experience. No player in the top teams of our org is playing for free. Having the grades to get into D1 is a given. I used the words “professionally represented” because the decision makers at our academy actually do care what is best for the player and where they wind up. In some instances they will have to tell a player they are shooting too high for their skill set. |
|
|
SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2018 : 15:08:05
|
quote: Originally posted by bkball
Friend of mine runs an Elite 16U team. No bells and whistles, does not get paid to coach. They compete with any teams in GA and in the country. They only carry really good major players but get this. $500 for the whole season. They have 3 uniforms, they bring their own helmets. They play PG and some out of state tournaments. This year going to charter a bus to Florida with TV's the whole nine. Great experience for the kids. Does not have a kid on the team. He gets sponsors to help with cost. Last year gave every kid a $300 dollar glove, and turfs. Talk about a great deal! Already has 3 kids getting looked at by D-1 Schools, one NAIA commit. No one knew who this team was until after a couple of PG tournaments. Then the word got out. What is amazing is he tells me he has parents flipping and flopping and can't pull the trigger on playing with him sometimes because they were told by another program we got this kid drafted and that kid here and yeah but that kid would get drafted no matter where he played. And the price is 3K or 4K more. As a parent to me it's a no brainer. Last year took 3 out of state tournaments and paid for all hotel costs too for the kids, not the parents.
Man, that sounds too good to be true, but I'll take your word for it. I would love to know the name of that team and maybe I'll sign up my son..., |
Edited by - SuperStar on 04/23/2018 15:26:06 |
|
|
BREAMKING
323 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2018 : 16:32:40
|
Bk ball I think I know the team you talking about 15u last season I think. If team I am thinking of they were pretty darn good and I had heard the parents did not really pay anything. That team will probably be even better this year as word gets out about them. Go ahead and say the name BK. I am curious if I am thinking the right team. This guy obviously not doing it for the money so he deserves some free publicity. Too bad more people not doing teams for the love of the game and to pass knowledge along like it used to be. |
Edited by - BREAMKING on 04/23/2018 17:03:01 |
|
|
bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2018 : 06:57:21
|
The bottom line is: You have to be seen. The bar is rising, the kids are getting better and better, what used to be a really good fastball is now just average.
If you go to the bigger PG events, you will see what games most of the scouts are watching, it will be the bigger organizations with the rosters loaded with talent. Sure, a few scouts will be watching the other teams, but when the big boys play, the scouts show up.
While there are exceptions to every rule as far as getting a D1 scholarship, most will come from the big name programs and you can see this on PG's website. So, if you don't play on one of these teams, then I would argue you need to go to a PG showcase. If you put up the numbers, you will get noticed. The other option is college camps, I know of and have seen kids get offered from camps and then there are others that say it is a money grab.
Again, the main thing is to get seen. |
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2018 : 08:44:54
|
quote: Originally posted by Bombernation
I agree, if you can ball you don’t necessarily need to pay academy type money to get into D1. I can only speak from personal experience. No player in the top teams of our org is playing for free. Having the grades to get into D1 is a given. I used the words “professionally represented” because the decision makers at our academy actually do care what is best for the player and where they wind up. In some instances they will have to tell a player they are shooting too high for their skill set.
I really hope it's not just about grades. I've met some kids with straight A's but they are total head cases banging helmets around, throwing bats, cursing up a storm....but they have good grades and skills so they will get into D1? Gesh, I hope not! |
|
|
bkball
173 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2018 : 10:44:10
|
I will wait until the first tournament to post the name but if your son is a PO and can play 16U and is really good, I doubt he would have any reservations finding a spot for him. He is loaded with position players and actually has some PO's as well, but you can never have too many pitchers. |
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2018 : 23:54:34
|
quote: Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote: Originally posted by Bombernation
I agree, if you can ball you don’t necessarily need to pay academy type money to get into D1. I can only speak from personal experience. No player in the top teams of our org is playing for free. Having the grades to get into D1 is a given. I used the words “professionally represented” because the decision makers at our academy actually do care what is best for the player and where they wind up. In some instances they will have to tell a player they are shooting too high for their skill set.
I really hope it's not just about grades. I've met some kids with straight A's but they are total head cases banging helmets around, throwing bats, cursing up a storm....but they have good grades and skills so they will get into D1? Gesh, I hope not!
Grades are just another part of the equation. Jerks will eventually show themselves. |
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2018 : 00:02:46
|
quote: Originally posted by bama21
The bottom line is: You have to be seen. The bar is rising, the kids are getting better and better, what used to be a really good fastball is now just average.
If you go to the bigger PG events, you will see what games most of the scouts are watching, it will be the bigger organizations with the rosters loaded with talent. Sure, a few scouts will be watching the other teams, but when the big boys play, the scouts show up.
While there are exceptions to every rule as far as getting a D1 scholarship, most will come from the big name programs and you can see this on PG's website. So, if you don't play on one of these teams, then I would argue you need to go to a PG showcase. If you put up the numbers, you will get noticed. The other option is college camps, I know of and have seen kids get offered from camps and then there are others that say it is a money grab.
Again, the main thing is to get seen.
Keep in mind that most of those are Independent Scouts and not Team scouts. The scouting world is about a grimey as it comes. It seems that anyone with a radar gun is a so called scout. These guys are like ambulance chasing lawyers, looking for the next client to get paid off of. |
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2018 : 00:06:57
|
quote: Originally posted by Bombernation
With all due respect to the OP, it is an individual that has yet to navigate the travel ball world. If your kid has a skill set that allows him to make the top teams of the 643 / Astros / Team Elite teams from 10U through 16’s and beyond, then you understand that playing on a team with an operating budget of 40k plus every year means that the org that runs like a “business” is also in the “business” of making sure your kid is exposed professionally to the D1 world in a way that you may not otherwise have access to.
If my son was regularly being selected for the lower teams within these top orgs I would possibly consider looking into other options. The juice has to be worth the squeeze, and an honest assessment of your sons talent should always lead the way.
40K a year? I can tell they look at the parents rather than player. If kid goes to private school then the parents must have the coin to pay. |
|
|
Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2018 : 06:32:38
|
I don't think the grades alone guarantee the spot, definitely not with that attitude, but a great player without them will have a tough time going D1. |
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|