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 11U General Discussion
 GA Teams ranked among national teams
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Around_the_Horn

22 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2017 :  15:06:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, it is time to get everyone out of their winter slumber. What do we think of these rankings? Do we think that the GA teams were treated fairly?

https://www.baseballyouth.com/rankings/

Remember our current 11 year old players are ranked on this list as 10 year olds for 2017.

Punishers

451 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2017 :  21:15:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looks like USSSA rankings. More of their events you play and win, the better your ranking. No love for GA teams that don't play more USSSA events.
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Around_the_Horn

22 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2017 :  07:51:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

Looks like USSSA rankings. More of their events you play and win, the better your ranking. No love for GA teams that don't play more USSSA events.



Okay, you made me go figure it out. The r value for the two list is actually .16. So no, this is not even close to the USSSA rankings. It is actually more close to random selection compared to USSSA. Statistically speaking.

This is even shown by the GA teams on this list. The two teams on the list [643 Coug's & ECB Astros] are ranked 4th and 5th in the state by USSSA. Leaving the top 3 USSSA teams completely off the list. The list even flips the two teams from GA.

I do agree with your USSSA analysis of pay to get ranked.
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CaCO3Girl

1681 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2017 :  09:47:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How else do you expect org's to rank teams?

The more you play in one of their tourneys the more you are seen, the more data they have. You can win 9 TC tourneys and only 1 USSSA tourney and be ranked lower than a team than won 9 USSSA tourneys and 1 TC tourney. PG does it the same way at the older levels.
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Around_the_Horn

22 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2017 :  11:43:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl

How else do you expect org's to rank teams?

The more you play in one of their tourneys the more you are seen, the more data they have. You can win 9 TC tourneys and only 1 USSSA tourney and be ranked lower than a team than won 9 USSSA tourneys and 1 TC tourney. PG does it the same way at the older levels.



First, let me say that I agree with how the tournament organization (USSSA & PG) rank their top teams. Using such a method optimizes their revenue. So yes, they should use it for their own purposes.

However, for truly ranking teams (like the Baseball Youth ranking which started this conversation), a rating system such as Log 5 or Elo system would seem to be the best. Or just have a select group vote, much like the old college football coaches poll.

Ok, enough with nerdy stuff. Do you or do you not agree with the ratings?
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Punishers

451 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2017 :  13:47:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can't say that I agree. A lot more talented teams in GA The reality is that it doesn't matter at this age group. How many of those teams will be ranked when it really matters on a 60/90 field? When scouts are looking at players. Unless these guys have hit puberty already.
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turntwo

833 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2017 :  15:16:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Around_the_Horn

quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl

How else do you expect org's to rank teams?

The more you play in one of their tourneys the more you are seen, the more data they have. You can win 9 TC tourneys and only 1 USSSA tourney and be ranked lower than a team than won 9 USSSA tourneys and 1 TC tourney. PG does it the same way at the older levels.



First, let me say that I agree with how the tournament organization (USSSA & PG) rank their top teams. Using such a method optimizes their revenue. So yes, they should use it for their own purposes.

However, for truly ranking teams (like the Baseball Youth ranking which started this conversation), a rating system such as Log 5 or Elo system would seem to be the best. Or just have a select group vote, much like the old college football coaches poll.

Ok, enough with nerdy stuff. Do you or do you not agree with the ratings?



TbS does their rankings like Baseball Youth too. They do NOT only use their own events, but the look at and reference other org's events and outcomes. Which to me, is crucial... How did the 'top teams' do in big tourneys with other big teams from their state or part of their country? Did any play in the Elite 32? Win it? What about the PG Super 25? Other SNIT's? Triple Crown World Series? Etc... Events with big draws, command respect in rankings for the winners-- regards of org hosting the event, or org publishing rankings.

Here's the TbS rankings, and a short write up as to why: http://www.travelballselect.com/travelball-select-final-10u-rankings/


Now, looking at the your list, and finding those names in the TbS write ups, here's what it says:

Alamo Drillers: The Drillers left no doubt about the #1 team in the country. They put together an outstanding season and werenít afraid to compete against best. The Drillers made a very deep run in the Demarini Elite WS but wound up taking second place after losing to Five Star in the finals. They managed to defeat four top-25 opponents in the event. They had an incredible pitching performance in the Under Armour Championships as they only surrendered 7 runs through 9 games and walk away with the title

5-Star: They ended their season on a high note as they take first place in the Demarini Elite WS. They recorded impressive wins over the Alamo Drillers, Kangaroo Court and MC Hitdogs. They also were crowned champions of the TC Club Nationals after going a perfect 6-0 and defeating the 643 Cougars twice.

SGV Hustle: made it all the way to the semifinals of the Demarini Elite WS before running out of gas against the Alamo Drillers. They picked up a pair of impressive wins over the Chino Hills Thunder earlier in the event. Won all four of their games and defeated the Chino Hills Thunder to win the California State Championships. Had a big weekend at the U-Trip International WS as they defeat the Scottsdale Dirtbags and THZ Rodriguez to claim the title.

643 (18th on TbS list): The Cougars finished up 3-3 in the Travelball Select National Championship with wins over the EC Colt 45ís Navy, Giants Baseball and Miami Rebels. Won their first four games in week 2 of the Gulf Shores Global WS but was eventually sent home by the Madison County Thunder Red. Took runner up to the HP Chilidogs Mobley in the GA State Championship.

ECB Astros (20th on TbS list): ended their season with a third-place finish in the TC Club Nationals after taking both playoff losses to 643 Cougars. Had an impressive outing in the GA/FL Showdown NIT as they go 6-0 with big wins over the Kangaroo Court, Five Star Tigers and Gulf Coast Monarchs. Took home first place in the Charlotte Beast of the East SNIT

All of this to say, that it looks like U-trip, T/C, TbS at the minimum all go into ranking how teams stack up.
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teamgamark

163 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2017 :  07:24:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Been through this with three of my boys and a daughter who does travel softball and while I love the board as much as anyone I am starting to mellow in my experience and trying to allow the boys just to enjoy and have fun. My oldest boy has gone Lacrosse and for his Mom and I it has been a welcomed change. Enjoy the forum and have a great time pulling for your kids, but please know it is not about you. I learned the hard way. Good luck to all.
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