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 PG Age Class Change
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Crazyforbball

369 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2019 :  20:35:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's not going to hurt anyone for fall playing up at 16U. Even if you get your butt kicked, it's excellent preparation for freshmen getting ready for their 1st HS tryout, and will only make your kid a better player being out there against real competition.
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Tball

139 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2019 :  19:12:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Play with your graduation year if it is about getting seen for college!!
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CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2019 :  23:53:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tball

Play with your graduation year if it is about getting seen for college!!



Look up the rosters of the teams that made it into the final 8 of whatever super duper 16u tourney you want to look up. They donít have a single year on their rosters they have multiple grad years. Even the XYZ 2021ís have some 2020ís and some 2022ís on there. Having entire teams of one graduating class is a rare thing to see nowadays.
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Hurricane22

77 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2019 :  14:13:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball

It's not going to hurt anyone for fall playing up at 16U. Even if you get your butt kicked, it's excellent preparation for freshmen getting ready for their 1st HS tryout, and will only make your kid a better player being out there against real competition.



This. Sometimes kids need to learn how to be a small fish in a big pond.

That said, I don't even know if we have any Sophomores on our new 15U team....really don't care, cause we were told that we would play more 16U tourneys that 15U anyway.

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TaxiMom

149 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2019 :  16:15:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl

quote:
Originally posted by Tball

Play with your graduation year if it is about getting seen for college!!



Look up the rosters of the teams that made it into the final 8 of whatever super duper 16u tourney you want to look up. They donít have a single year on their rosters they have multiple grad years. Even the XYZ 2021ís have some 2020ís and some 2022ís on there. Having entire teams of one graduating class is a rare thing to see nowadays.



That doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing to do.

My son REALLY wanted to play with his grade, and was fine "dropping down" a level of teams to do it. The 15U teams aren't going to be as active in the recruiting thing as the 16U teams are, and he didn't want to wait until his junior year to go into the higher gear with recruiting. Might he not get "seen" because he dropped down in his team level, maybe. But at least the opportunity could be there, unlike if he stayed at 15U. And the 16U team will get him into the recruiting mindset.

Frankly, he's a sophomore. If he's not as physically big (yet) as the kids who are 9-12 months older than him, then so be it. He'll work all that much harder to get there next year.
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Gapper

64 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2019 :  10:32:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So what is considered the "High School Age" tournaments? Is that 14u and up? 15u and up? Just curious now that the rosters for the fall tournaments are getting entered and there are lots of 2023 kids (high school 9th graders) participating down in 14u which is typically 8th graders.


quote:
Originally posted by PGADMIN

All, we appreciate your inquiry regarding the PG Age Restrictions. What you are seeing for the fall events is the way we have always treated our High School aged tournaments every fall. If you look back historically, you will notice the trend. As far as implementing this into the 2020 Spring/Summer and beyond, that is not the case. Those events will still have the same age restrictions, just like past years.

If any extreme changes are ever made in the future, we will have an official announcement to notify all travel teams.

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Candler70

7 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2019 :  09:12:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would say 15U and up. Even for Fall with PG in their 14U division, they say eligibility is 2024 grad or younger OR born on or after 5/1/2005. So just like always in the past, you could have some 14 year old Freshmen in HS playing in the 14U division. So in the situation you mentioned, yes there will be some 2023 grads playing 14U because they are eligible based on the birth date rule. Then the divisions after 14u are Freshmen, Sophomore, Underclass, upperclass; and those state eligibility is NOT determined by birth date - solely by grad year for the Fall season anyway.
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Teeillz

12 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2019 :  10:07:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay, maybe Iím confused about this topic. In HS, donít kids play with those that are usually a year older n younger? If on JV- potential from freshman-juniors, if on Varsity-anyone who is good enough aged 14-18/9 can play. Even if a child is playing with his ďageĒ his PG stats are still being graded and compared to those in his graduating grade. I think people are complicating this way too much. Prepare your kid as much as you can, be REALISTIC about little johnniesí abilities, everyone isnít going D-1, and thatís ok, everyone isnít getting drafted out of HS, and thatís ok too!! PG has separate showcases to evaluate your child as an individual prospect, if youíre PG hung-ho, while tournaments are a team showing, where individuals can shine and be evaluated on HOW they contribute to the team dynamic (and can put up a good showing individually too). I have one that just went thru the process and another coming behind him (14u).... it goes by SO QUICKLY. Enjoy the journey first and foremost.
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KentMurphy

87 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  12:45:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Candler70

I would say 15U and up. Even for Fall with PG in their 14U division, they say eligibility is 2024 grad or younger OR born on or after 5/1/2005.



The "OR" is the confusing part. The way it's broken out, you'd think 14U = 8th grade or 2024, and Freshman is, well duh, 2023's etc. So like it was posted/mentioned, a team with ONE 2023 player (who is eligible for 14U) would have to play in the "Freshman" tourney. Same with a 15U team... Could be a Freshman tourney-entrant, however throw in ONE 2022, and the entire team plays in the "Sophomore" division.

I think they should change it to simply:
2024
2023
2022
2021
like the national events. That way there's no confusion, and everyone understands... One player on roster is in the above grad year, the whole team plays 'up' on that one player's grade....

I can't argue with Teeillz, where in reality, in high school, 14 year olds are competing with 18-19 year olds. Are the seniors 'playing down' when they face another Varsity team that has lots of 2022's? No.
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Hurricane22

77 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  12:51:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nailed it Teeillz
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jaguars18

245 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  13:18:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
if you can play you can play colleges not there looking at your kid anyway...reality is tough
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Candler70

7 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  18:11:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Half the posts in this thread have nothing to do with the OP, which was simply an observation that PG's eligibility determinations for Fall will affect many TRAVEL teams that have mixed grad classes. The OPoster is not asking or inquiring about HS teams, we all know how that system works. Everyone went off on the play with your grade and HS ball is mixed anyway, etc, etc. It wasn't about that.
And Kent the "OR" is not confusing at all and is only a factor for 14U. 14U teams are not affected, if their players are eligible based on birth date, it doesn't matter if they are all Freshmen(2023s), they can still play 14U in Fall. If it said 2024 or younger grad class only, then your scenario would be correct about them having to play in Freshman division if they have even one 2023 on roster; but like I said that's not what it says at all for the 14U division. 15U and up, yes you're right about them having to play at the highest level grad year found on their roster.
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KentMurphy

87 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2019 :  11:07:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Candler70

And Kent the "OR" is not confusing at all and is only a factor for 14U. 14U teams are not affected, if their players are eligible based on birth date, it doesn't matter if they are all Freshmen(2023s), they can still play 14U in Fall. If it said 2024 or younger grad class only, then your scenario would be correct about them having to play in Freshman division if they have even one 2023 on roster; but like I said that's not what it says at all for the 14U division. 15U and up, yes you're right about them having to play at the highest level grad year found on their roster.



I've heard potentially differently. Maybe Tony or someone with PG can come clarify the 14U age group... But you're right, the wording is straight forward for other divisions.
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Candler70

7 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2019 :  15:10:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just watch those 15U teams you're playing in the Freshmen division this Fall. Like Bballdad said way earlier, many or most of the 15U teams are made up of 2023s and 2022s. I know my son's team is, and all his friends' teams are. So they all should be playing sophomore division this fall; but they may be trying to sneak their way into the younger division, lol. But also like Bballdad said, it's only for a few tourneys this fall and will all even back out in spring/summer.
It's gonna be mixed probably if the team has stayed together for quite some time. But I'm sure many coaches formed 15U teams with a stipulation of being a 2023 grad only, or selecting only 2023s for the team.
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Nor-BD

66 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2019 :  20:30:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some teams outright cheating and faking PG profiles and or spelling names wrong to get around linking actual PG profile to roster.If there is a stud on the mound (without a PG link) in the game.... hmmm
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2seamfbaway

15 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  11:07:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you know a team is outright cheating then report it to PG or protest the game. A birth certificate check by PG can easily catch a changed spelling to avoid a link to the real PG profile. Also, unless a kid is from out of the area itís hard to have a ďstudĒ that nobody from any other team knows or recognizes. There will always be a few who try to cheat at any level of sports but Iíd be surprised if it happens as much as I hear accusations of it.
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NorcrossBBall

49 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  16:53:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What I find funny about this post from OP and responses is the one item that everyone is talking about....but in essence...talking "around". That question is "what is the goal for your son in baseball ?" ....the answer to this question dictates the avenue of pursuit..age vs class. The thread goes from a rules question to Q&A on how players are judged for college recruitment and best avenue for that effort. CaCO3Girl outlined the perils correctly....but I'll make it more direct.

Metrics MATTER.....unfortunately in today's game they are 99% of what only matters. Don't agree ?........PG & PBR built companies on this fact. Recruiters flock to this one-stop shop of info. Is there other avenues ?....YES, Prospect Camps, HS games, etc. However, when you look at those outlets it is same items being assessed.....how fast does he run, how hard does he hit, how big is he, how fast does he throw. The metrics = rankings.....and BTW PG does this by "Grad Year". ALL that should matter to you is how your son scales to the metrics that are pretty well defined at each age group for his position. The hard reality is Baseball is an "individual" sport played as a team. It's a razor's edge choice but you need to put your son in a position where he scales but also collects the metrics showing that progress (eg. PG stats). Recruiters aren't going to be "fooled" by the big fish in little pond but they also aren't going to care about a small fish in a big one either.

Bottom line.....during the HS "transition" phase all kids go thru....puberty, better comp, deep end of pool, etc.....it is balancing act of where he should fit and best decided at each players own needs/abilities. While no perfect world I'd err on the side of showing/marketing his best traits while he develops the ones that are not. The end-game "window" for all this is his end-Jr, rising-Sr Summer...aka 17U Summer ball/team....by then little Johnny better have hit his stride as a college prospect.....point being, knowing these facts now go ahead back into where your son is currently and the best avenue to get him to the end goal. It's a results oriented game played by an individual....better start thinking that way.

Edited by - NorcrossBBall on 11/10/2019 18:49:18
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Crazyforbball

369 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2019 :  13:18:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
^^^^ Fantastic spot on advice.
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NWbaseballscouting

8 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2019 :  12:41:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
He should be playing 16U as a Sophmore. With kids playing down and even reclassification (parents allowing a child to be held back a year in school) PG is doing the best thing they can. People will always sandbag and bend the rules by making you play with your graduating class it is the best solution. But as I have said many times, coaches and recruiters are not dumb. They can see who played 14U as a freshmen and 15U as a sophmore.
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CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2019 :  11:17:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NWbaseballscouting

He should be playing 16U as a Sophmore. With kids playing down and even reclassification (parents allowing a child to be held back a year in school) PG is doing the best thing they can. People will always sandbag and bend the rules by making you play with your graduating class it is the best solution. But as I have said many times, coaches and recruiters are not dumb. They can see who played 14U as a freshmen and 15U as a sophmore.


You say that like it matters...coaches and recruiters don't care who the kid played for or what age group. You give them faaaar too much credit. They care about what is Johnny doing now...as in right now. Can he contribute to my college team as the player he is today? That's all they care about, and really, that's all they should care about.
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NWbaseballscouting

8 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2019 :  11:29:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

[/quote]
They care about what is Johnny doing now...as in right now. Can he contribute to my college team as the player he is today? That's all they care about, and really, that's all they should care about.
[/quote]


You are wrong. We've gone over this before. You are giving bad advice again. I do not want to argue more, because you show up on every thread where this is discussed, but you are completely wrong. And you are very defensive about it as well which lends me to believe you have or have had a child that plays down below where they should be.

Coaches and scouts can't judge whether a kid will help them or not if they are playing down in competition. No coach is going to offer a kid to play college ball next year if he's a senior playing down on a travel team against juniors and sophmores. You can't weigh those stats against another kid playing where he is supposed to. The only exception is if your kid throws over 90 mph. But for the most part your kid should play on grade level or play up. And that's not an opinion. You don't need to jump on here and quote grad years on certain rosters, etc. Just call a college coach, ANY college coach, and ask him where the kids should be playing.

And the "right now" comment is inaccurate. Kids get offered everyday who haven't thrown a baseball in over a year because of other sports or injury. They want kids who impress on the radar gun, or who 'project out' physically, or who are playing the toughest competition.
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bballman

1429 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2019 :  12:09:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't get on here much anymore as my son has been done with baseball for a while now. But, I've made this point before and I'll make it again now. Take it or leave it.

IMO, when you get to HS, play your grade.

Here's the issue. When recruiters go to PG tournaments, they are looking for specific needs for a specific time period. If they are looking for pitchers for the upcoming 2020 season, they are looking for 2019 graduates (seniors - except for the Power 5s, who look to fill rosters earlier). When they go to a tournament, they are going to look at grad year 2019 teams specifically. If your kid is on a 2020 team playing in a 2019 tournament, the recruiters will be less likely to even go to a game you're in unless you're playing against a 2020 team. And unless you REALLY stick out, they aren't going to pay much attention because they are not looking for a 2019 grad yet. Can you still get recruited for the upcoming 2020 college season? Yeah. But the market for players is SO competitive, why put yourself at a disadvantage of playing on a team that recruiters are not looking at yet?

If a player is looking to play in college, every advantage counts. Every little thing you do to give yourself an advantage could make a big difference. Why put yourself in a position that there's ANY possibility at all that you won't be seen?

Play with your grade, not because it's not good competition or because you are younger and can stand out more against the competition. Play with your grade, because college recruiters are VERY focused on exactly what they are looking for and there are literally thousands of kids out there looking for a spot on a college roster. The recruiters are NOT going to be looking at 2020 players yet if their immediate need is for 2020 players and there plenty of them to choose from.

I hope this makes sense...
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2seamfbaway

15 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2019 :  20:15:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
bballman I think thatís the best argument Iíve seen on this topic.
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bballman

1429 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2019 :  16:08:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bballman

I don't get on here much anymore as my son has been done with baseball for a while now. But, I've made this point before and I'll make it again now. Take it or leave it.

IMO, when you get to HS, play your grade.

Here's the issue. When recruiters go to PG tournaments, they are looking for specific needs for a specific time period. If they are looking for pitchers for the upcoming 2020 season, they are looking for 2019 graduates (seniors - except for the Power 5s, who look to fill rosters earlier). When they go to a tournament, they are going to look at grad year 2019 teams specifically. If your kid is on a 2020 team playing in a 2019 tournament, the recruiters will be less likely to even go to a game you're in unless you're playing against a 2020 team. And unless you REALLY stick out, they aren't going to pay much attention because they are not looking for a 2020 grad yet. Can you still get recruited for the upcoming 2020 college season? Yeah. But the market for players is SO competitive, why put yourself at a disadvantage of playing on a team that recruiters are not looking at yet?

If a player is looking to play in college, every advantage counts. Every little thing you do to give yourself an advantage could make a big difference. Why put yourself in a position that there's ANY possibility at all that you won't be seen?

Play with your grade, not because it's not good competition or because you are younger and can stand out more against the competition. Play with your grade, because college recruiters are VERY focused on exactly what they are looking for and there are literally thousands of kids out there looking for a spot on a college roster. The recruiters are NOT going to be looking at 2020 players yet if their immediate need is for 2019 players and there plenty of them to choose from.

I hope this makes sense...



FYI, I just reread this and noticed I made a couple mistakes with grad years. I'm a little rusty with this stuff.

I made changes above in red with the correct grad years.
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