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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| tater77bug |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 09:19:37
I saw a very interesting article on Travel Ball Select that was written by 12u Meteors coach Ron Filipkowski...have you guys seen this???? The article talks about the growing trend of coaches paying players and parents to play on their teams....he is talking about NAtionally ranked team...he seems to have a inside to this trend as some parents are open about their pay arraingments...quote"I am talking about coaches paying parents who are from different states than their team to travel to events. Paying for their rental cars, plane tickets, gas, hotel rooms." and "even receiving cash for pocket expenses"...am I naive??? is this really happening....is this something that we are going to be faced with??? Thoughts??? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| elitebaseball |
Posted - 05/13/2009 : 11:24:20
VERY WELL PUT!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by gasbag
I totally agree with the sentiments of this group on this topic. On many occasions, I have talked with my son on "what makes HIM happy about playing baseball" ? In no particular order, he indicated that 1 - Having fun 2 - Playing on a team with some of his friends 3 - Being on a competitive team 4 - Having the players on the team work as hard as he does to get better ( practice, practice, practice...he loves to practice and never tires of round after round...rep after rep ) 5 - Having an ice cream or smoothie after the game 6 - Goofing in the dugout
Funny, he never mentioned what his team was ranked in the country...whom was better than whom on the team...that he wanted the latest prodigy from Georgia, California, Florida or Texas ( etc etc etc ) to be on his team so that they could beat every team at every tournament. I'd venture to guess that if I asked him if he could have the best "kid in the country" on his team vs. one of his mates, he'd pick one of his mate's 100% of the time !
So who and what is creating this environment to " be the best in the country at any expense" ? It's us the parents & coaches !!!!! I'm not a psychologist, but I suspect it's because we now pay huge amounts of monies on hitting lessons, pitching lessons, personal trainers and sports psychologists in the hopes ( and dreams ) of making our kids the next cover of "Sports Illustrated". Why isn't it good enough to let the boys ( and girls ) PLAY BALL ?
I think we as parents take our kids participation in baseball ( as well as other sports ) way too seriously. The kids haven't created these problems...we adults have. We've had "our bite at the old sport apple" and now it's THEIR time and opportunity. We should let them have their chance at making THEIR memories. I'm thinking out loud here ( which is very dangerous ! )but, what is a greater legacy for me as a parent to leave behind...that my child was first at little league in some tournament that none of us can remember or that he's teaching my grandson / grandaughter the meaning of being a good team mate, having fun, moms/dads sharing time with their kids, pride in any endeavor THEY choose, working hard to get better etc . I can't speak for everyone, but I'm pretty sure what the answer would be for 95% of the folks that I know.
PLAY BALL !
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| moss21 |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 16:59:18
Once a team pays a player money and someone has proof of it, the kid is concidered a professional,and he should not be able to play any college baseball for the rest of his life. |
| gasbag |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 09:01:36
I totally agree with the sentiments of this group on this topic. On many occasions, I have talked with my son on "what makes HIM happy about playing baseball" ? In no particular order, he indicated that 1 - Having fun 2 - Playing on a team with some of his friends 3 - Being on a competitive team 4 - Having the players on the team work as hard as he does to get better ( practice, practice, practice...he loves to practice and never tires of round after round...rep after rep ) 5 - Having an ice cream or smoothie after the game 6 - Goofing in the dugout
Funny, he never mentioned what his team was ranked in the country...whom was better than whom on the team...that he wanted the latest prodigy from Georgia, California, Florida or Texas ( etc etc etc ) to be on his team so that they could beat every team at every tournament. I'd venture to guess that if I asked him if he could have the best "kid in the country" on his team vs. one of his mates, he'd pick one of his mate's 100% of the time !
So who and what is creating this environment to " be the best in the country at any expense" ? It's us the parents & coaches !!!!! I'm not a psychologist, but I suspect it's because we now pay huge amounts of monies on hitting lessons, pitching lessons, personal trainers and sports psychologists in the hopes ( and dreams ) of making our kids the next cover of "Sports Illustrated". Why isn't it good enough to let the boys ( and girls ) PLAY BALL ?
I think we as parents take our kids participation in baseball ( as well as other sports ) way too seriously. The kids haven't created these problems...we adults have. We've had "our bite at the old sport apple" and now it's THEIR time and opportunity. We should let them have their chance at making THEIR memories. I'm thinking out loud here ( which is very dangerous ! )but, what is a greater legacy for me as a parent to leave behind...that my child was first at little league in some tournament that none of us can remember or that he's teaching my grandson / grandaughter the meaning of being a good team mate, having fun, moms/dads sharing time with their kids, pride in any endeavor THEY choose, working hard to get better etc . I can't speak for everyone, but I'm pretty sure what the answer would be for 95% of the folks that I know.
PLAY BALL ! |
| tater77bug |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 09:00:03
Good stuff cheese.....quote:
Originally posted by highcheese
A lot of crap going around in little kids baseball. Who is such an idiot to tell a littel kid or their parents, come to my team, i will get you drafted, i am connected. Incredible! Make sure at this age you put your kid with a qualified coach if you can that can communicate, teach your child the fundamentals of the game and fuel his passion for all that baseball has to offer.
After about 14, when your son has a couple of armpit hairs, then start looking for a path if he has the passion left. If your son can play high school ball, he will get noticed, scouted, etc.. If he is better than average then he can worry about getting drafted. The high school coaches are CONNECTED, the scouts come to these games, the colleges come to these games. I know several high school coaches well, you would not believe the connections and the information they have on every player in the region, and if they do not have the information, they seek it out. They usually do not ask 11u coaches for this information. Remember at 11 I was going to be race car driver, a fighter pilot, a fireman, a doctor, a baseball player, a football player and a basketball player, and that was just in one week!
Keep it real - try this - play catch with your son and ask him what is really on his mind. You will be blown away.
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| elitebaseball |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 21:02:58
Baseballpapa...
I agree about the memories but if kids are being brought in just to win, then its more about memories. Memories are made by just playing the game just like the wonderful comment you made about the way your Bandits play for each other.
Highcheese...
Your right on point.... Only and IDIOT would pay for kids to play and cover parent expenses UNLESS you have a financial issue in the household and you CARE about this kid on and off the field.
No matter what, its FUN to see these kids enjoying playing the game & hopefully some of them will funnel into the same high school or college and have a good laugh about how got overly involved in their youth sports.
Lets Keep It Real |
| highcheese |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 14:36:25
A lot of crap going around in little kids baseball. Who is such an idiot to tell a littel kid or their parents, come to my team, i will get you drafted, i am connected. Incredible! Make sure at this age you put your kid with a qualified coach if you can that can communicate, teach your child the fundamentals of the game and fuel his passion for all that baseball has to offer.
After about 14, when your son has a couple of armpit hairs, then start looking for a path if he has the passion left. If your son can play high school ball, he will get noticed, scouted, etc.. If he is better than average then he can worry about getting drafted. The high school coaches are CONNECTED, the scouts come to these games, the colleges come to these games. I know several high school coaches well, you would not believe the connections and the information they have on every player in the region, and if they do not have the information, they seek it out. They usually do not ask 11u coaches for this information. Remember at 11 I was going to be race car driver, a fighter pilot, a fireman, a doctor, a baseball player, a football player and a basketball player, and that was just in one week!
Keep it real - try this - play catch with your son and ask him what is really on his mind. You will be blown away. |
| baseballpapa |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 14:18:04
Does it always have to be about high school, college, or even the pro's. Why can't it just be what it was meant to be, a place to make memories that can be cherished for a long time. Every one knows that only a few make it big and I am one of the ones who didn't make it but I have never lost my love for the game. But I was able to make many new friends that I see on a regular basis and that helped make my baseball memories. They are not memories of getting paid to play but of playing baseball on a beautiful day filled with sunshine. I remember many great diving catches, hard hit line drives, some goodbye Mr. Spaldings, and always giving our best every game. One of the great things about the game of baseball is that you don't have to be the best player on the team to enjoy the game. If these children play every game as hard as they can play then they will have succeeded in my book. |
| elitebaseball |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 09:37:15
Ladies & Gents.... Great discussion.
I don't agree with the paying of kids but it is what it is.
Truth be told, Baseball has been and will always be about MONEY!!!
Take the BIG 3... Football, Basketball, & Baseball.
1-Which one doesn't require college before turning pro?
2-How many elite Football & Basketball players ONLY play AAU or travel and still receive NCAA scholarships?
3-Has MLB ever had another competitive Professional League in the US within the last 50yrs? (ex. ABA, USFL, XFL)
4-How much $ is spent abroad developing the international talent compared to what is spent in the US?
We all have our own set of standards, values, morals, goals, etc.
Statistics say that 95% of these kids won't see a day in the Big Leagues and will have only these LL Trophies and Titles to show for it.
Don't forget about the NCAA education that can be afforded them and how this can be stripped away by financial improprieties!!! |
| tater77bug |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 09:23:47
Good stuff....I checked with a friend of mine that is a college coach...100% these folks could be in violation of amatuer status....it is similar to the problems that travel basketball has had in the past/present....especially if they have ties to any school as a booster....and just because everyone does it doesn't make it okay...rmang you said what has been ringing in my ears for a week...also heard of a 11U coach telling a parent and child if their son comes to play for his team he will help him get drafted....because he is "connected"...PLEASE.... |
| rmang |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 22:13:09
It would ABSOLUTLEY jeopardize a kid's eligibility if it could be proven that this player recieved any aid/scholarship outside of NCAA/Amateur status guidelines.
I'm really not trying to sound stupid or sound naive, but why is it SO important to have the best team or win a tournament at the age of 6-14?
I'm not going to write a paragraph about my credntials but I will say this - that anyone that is putting together a travel baseball team and is crossing amateur/NCAA/ethical/moral lines to do it -probably never played the game at a higher level. The "games/championships" I remember the most are the ones I shared with my childhood buddies. Playing with a bunch of guys that get "brought in" to play and win games is called college. And we lived together, went to school together, drank together, went through family tragedies together, PRACTICED together, won together and lost together.
Celebrating a win with Bobby from "East Who the Heck Cares" who never has never practiced one minute with the team (or is it only a team when the umps yells "play ball"?) is not what is important to a 11 year old kid!
The adults who do this are the same ones that say "we" scored when the Georgia Bulldogs score a touchdown - they really think "they" score too!
I get playing with/against better or the best competition is important part of developing both skills and the metal side of the game (that goes for the school too) but try and find a team your son knows some of the other players and might even be friends.
I know some parents think that getting their son on a team that is "ranked" will give them a better shot at becoming a college or pro prospect because of all the "scouts". WHATEVER...
IF YOUR SON IS GOOD - REALLY GOOD (not just 12 going on 17) - THE SCOUTS WILL FIND HIM!! BUT THEY ARE NOT LOOKING FOR HIM AT 12!! When is is 16-17 and evey child has hit a reasonable growth/maturity level and he understands and wants "IT" as much as you want "IT" for him - THEN - get him on a good team with good players WITH A GOOD COACH WHO IS A GOOD PERSON. |
| mwk2814 |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 12:17:25
This may be an off the wall question, but could this have an impact on a kid's elligibility for college ball?? Particularly if it's at an older age..... |
| Four Seam |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 12:08:03
Paying players and parents way is alive and well here in Georgia. It is one thing to help pay for a hardship case, but another to pay to win at all costs. Makes no sense to me. Only ego driven. Notes and names are being taken. These kids are really good, or they wouldn't be getting the free ride. NCAA eligibilty will come into question at some point in their careers for sure. |
| tater77bug |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 10:40:43
LOL........great post!!!quote:
Originally posted by Seam Splitter
quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
I don't know about everyone else but I would rather lose playing the very best even though we pick our teams differently than to win in a lower division. To me and this is just me I want to always teach my grandchildren to reach for the gold not the silver or bronze and you can't win the gold if you are not playing in the gold division. So the rest can do what they choose but wherever the best is the Bandits will be there trying to steal their thunder and the Chiefs are already grabbing the thunder and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the Chiefs tried to grab the lightning.
The Chiefs better hope the lightning doesnt strike their plane.
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| baseballpapa |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 10:27:35
Seam Splitter: I want to meet you. You have got to be a real hoot with this response. Good reply. |
| tater77bug |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 09:49:48
I think we all teach our children to reach for the gold...quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
I don't know about everyone else but I would rather lose playing the very best even though we pick our teams differently than to win in a lower division. To me and this is just me I want to always teach my grandchildren to reach for the gold not the silver or bronze and you can't win the gold if you are not playing in the gold division. So the rest can do what they choose but wherever the best is the Bandits will be there trying to steal their thunder and the Chiefs are already grabbing the thunder and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the Chiefs tried to grab the lightning.
|
| gasbag |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 09:29:39
Great...paying for youth talent ! What's next, kiddie steroids ? Coaches and parents are responsible for policing / keeping integrity in the game. Regardless of what pro baseball does, and what a debacle it has become, we need to protect youth athletics from "over the top" behaviour. |
| Seam Splitter |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 23:35:17
quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
I don't know about everyone else but I would rather lose playing the very best even though we pick our teams differently than to win in a lower division. To me and this is just me I want to always teach my grandchildren to reach for the gold not the silver or bronze and you can't win the gold if you are not playing in the gold division. So the rest can do what they choose but wherever the best is the Bandits will be there trying to steal their thunder and the Chiefs are already grabbing the thunder and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the Chiefs tried to grab the lightning.
The Chiefs better hope the lightning doesnt strike their plane.
|
| baseballpapa |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 20:54:12
I don't know about everyone else but I would rather lose playing the very best even though we pick our teams differently than to win in a lower division. To me and this is just me I want to always teach my grandchildren to reach for the gold not the silver or bronze and you can't win the gold if you are not playing in the gold division. So the rest can do what they choose but wherever the best is the Bandits will be there trying to steal their thunder and the Chiefs are already grabbing the thunder and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the Chiefs tried to grab the lightning. |
| sirlurker |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 18:42:56
I got a big 11 yr old left handed pitcher up on the block but dad needs a new SUV to get him back and forth to practices and games with his equipment and you know the boy needs grocery money to feed him and some spending money for after the games..any takers?...LOL! |
| oldmanmj |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 16:08:46
Interestingly enough there are bylaws in some of the organizations that directly state that if a player or team receives compensations for play, that team or player will be ejected from the league. There is a very grey area that we all need to be aware of, if a player or family is getting direct compensation, they are in violation. A team can have sponsors, fund raisers, etc. to offset any team or player fees. But for them to get gain specifically to play in a tournament or game, it is in direct violation. Who is watching this, no one from any board or organization. Some one could make a real mess of Travel Baseball if they truely pushed the issue. |
| 10 BB |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 11:55:05
If it would make everyone happy why not start an Elite Travel Organization where its wide open. The teams in this category would be made up with kids from all over the country. A team from Florida could have kids from Cal. or Tn. or wherever. This way if you enter an Elite tournament you know what to expect. If some rich man or even a team that has raised the money from stuff like a car wash or a pancake breakfast decide to purchase a player for a tournament. This is what youth baseball and all other sports are going to. In USSSA there is AA,AAA and Major why not Elite also. I personally think it's ok the way it is but this is an idea |
| 3sondad |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 10:36:40
My oldest was with a team that tried to make the cost to ALL parents $0. We experienced with it in the fall. We quickly realized that if there is not a monetary commitment by the parents, the chances of them bolting if they do not get their way is 100%. So in the spring, we told all the parents it would cost $800... At the year end party everyone received all their money back.
This year there was one parent on my 10U son's team tell everyone within ear shot after the last game of the first tournament, if I did not have so much money invested we would be gone. Wow ... Don't let the gate hit you on the way out... |
| 12uCoach |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 09:34:39
quote:
Originally posted by balldad
This happens to be a true fact. Last year at a 9U tournament I was approched by a coach from the team we just palyed against. He told me anytime I wanted my son on their team it wouldn't cost me anything. I never went.
I'm curious, why would you say no? Loyalty? Current team meets you and your sons wants/needs?
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| The One |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 09:24:42
I agree with 12 and under coach, this is nothing new. If the organization has the financial means to assist the players with travel expenses, so be it. The same thing takes place in professional sports, some organizations has the financial means to attract star players, others do not. But the game still has to be played on the field between the white lines, not in the stands. We adults need to stop worrying about what the Jones's are doing and instead work on getting our own kids/teams better. Paying the parents sound a little excessive and made up. This is no different than what takes place with AAU basketball, that's why some teams have more talent than others. |
| SportsDad |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 23:30:00
First heard about it 4 years ago at a elite24 tournament where some team supposedly paid some kid from CA. $10,000 dollars to pitch from them..After much catterwalling about how terible that is, we all concluded that, if our kid was that good someone wanted to pay him 10 grand to pitch for them....we would ask for it in cash, preferably small bills... |
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