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mjones9226

81 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2012 :  23:48:31  Show Profile
I understand in this age group they can still use a drop 5 with a 1.15 stamp. Are the majority of the boys still swinging drop 3's or are most using the drop 5 with the performance rating 1.15?

knucklecurve

171 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2012 :  13:43:45  Show Profile
There are a lot of teams using the drop 5 w/ the 1.15 stamp on it. Good luck when it comes time for the wood bat tournaments........
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ronicard

117 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2012 :  13:58:35  Show Profile
The 14U East Cobb Pride absolutely uses the 1.15 approved drop 5s when they're allowed. There is a vast difference between the ball flight of a ball struck by a BBCOR bat and one struck by the drop 5's.

With that being said, we played 2 wood bat tournaments in the fall and most of our kids hit with wooden bats in batting practice sessions. If the kids are swinging with the proper techniques, the wooden bats have more of an effect on a team's defense than they do on offense, in my opinion, because it just means that balls won't carry as far. Outfields get pulled in, pitchers are more able to dominate low in the strike zone without a batter being able to lift the pitch as easily and you get more double plays.

If you're playing high major teams like the Astros, Roadrunners, Diamond Cutters, Florida Mustangs, etc and you insist on using the BBCOR bats when those teams are using drop 5's that are non-BBCOR, then you're starting the game with your hands tied behind your back.
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knucklecurve

171 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2012 :  17:18:13  Show Profile
Won't it be hard for the boys to swing a drop 3 next year in highschool if they use that drop 5 all season? I have my son swinging a drop 3 since that is what he will be swinging next year. It was an adjustment from the bat he used last season.
quote:
Originally posted by ronicard

The 14U East Cobb Pride absolutely uses the 1.15 approved drop 5s when they're allowed. There is a vast difference between the ball flight of a ball struck by a BBCOR bat and one struck by the drop 5's.

With that being said, we played 2 wood bat tournaments in the fall and most of our kids hit with wooden bats in batting practice sessions. If the kids are swinging with the proper techniques, the wooden bats have more of an effect on a team's defense than they do on offense, in my opinion, because it just means that balls won't carry as far. Outfields get pulled in, pitchers are more able to dominate low in the strike zone without a batter being able to lift the pitch as easily and you get more double plays.

If you're playing high major teams like the Astros, Roadrunners, Diamond Cutters, Florida Mustangs, etc and you insist on using the BBCOR bats when those teams are using drop 5's that are non-BBCOR, then you're starting the game with your hands tied behind your back.


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in_the_know

985 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2012 :  21:02:26  Show Profile
Knucklecurve,

Clearly you have a different agenda for your son than do the boys who play on ronicard's team. You are more concerned about developing and preparing your son for the high school level, at the expense of winning trophies. Roni's team is more concerned with chasing trophies than the development piece.

It's interesting because in year's past, the BESR bat wasn't as substantial a decrease in performance as with the BBCOR, so people have to make a tough decision between the two.
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knucklecurve

171 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2012 :  21:42:50  Show Profile
I will take the development for the important years, over trophies that will become dusty and unimportant. Thanks for your input!
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know

Knucklecurve,

Clearly you have a different agenda for your son than do the boys who play on ronicard's team. You are more concerned about developing and preparing your son for the high school level, at the expense of winning trophies. Roni's team is more concerned with chasing trophies than the development piece.

It's interesting because in year's past, the BESR bat wasn't as substantial a decrease in performance as with the BBCOR, so people have to make a tough decision between the two.


Edited by - knucklecurve on 05/10/2012 22:02:18
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ronicard

117 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2012 :  23:10:00  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know

Knucklecurve,

Clearly you have a different agenda for your son than do the boys who play on ronicard's team. You are more concerned about developing and preparing your son for the high school level, at the expense of winning trophies. Roni's team is more concerned with chasing trophies than the development piece.

It's interesting because in year's past, the BESR bat wasn't as substantial a decrease in performance as with the BBCOR, so people have to make a tough decision between the two.



LOL. Well the last thing I'm going to do is get into an internet spitting contest with someone who hides behind an anonymous posting name. And I'm glad you can make a judgement about how we develop our team with what appears to be very little knowledge of me, the other coaches on the Pride, or my team. If you can show me another team that works more on developing players than we do, please let me know who they are because I REALLY want to go learn from them.

To answer your question, knucklecurve, my son played for his high school this year at Etowah as a freshman and swung the -3 BBCOR bat just fine. There really isn't that much difference between the -3 and the -5 from a weight perspective. As a matter of fact, the drop 5 Eastons are end-weighted and actually seem heavier to me than the drop 3 Marucci Black BBCOR my son used in high school. The difference is that the ball just comes off the bat harder with the drop 5. So some of the balls that don't fall for you (for instance a pitch in on the hands) with a BBCOR have a shot at falling with the drop 5 bats.

And as far as the silly notion of the drop 3 developing your player better than the drop 5, if you truly believe that to be the case, in_the_know, why do you allow your kid to hit with anything besides wood bats? Nothing forces a player to truly develop his swing more than using wood.

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funnyhop

74 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2012 :  08:27:35  Show Profile
Believe me, the Pride and all of the other top tier teams work their behinds off. They are playing within the confines of the rules that were set by the governing bodies. The top tier teams have bigger stronger boys at 14U than the other teams. And, these same kids get to swing a hot, drop 5 bat if they choose to do it..........legally.

It is like giving a battlefield officer a choice between a cannon vs. sticks and rocks. Until the rules of engagement change for both sides evenly, the one who wins is usually the one who uses the cannon.

That being said, all things will even out in the end. The kids who are peaking now in physical maturity will be "chased down" by the slower maturing kids. It is just a matter of time before they are all using the same drop 3 BBCOR bats. The kids who were on the "best teams in the country" at 14U matter not at all to any college recruiter. Who cares, or better yet, who even remembers who wins these 14U tournaments?

The ones who worked on swing mechanics and fundamentals will prevail long term........regardless of bat drop or specifications.


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knucklecurve

171 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2012 :  14:34:39  Show Profile
Some interesting arguements! There were so many quesions about what bat you could or couldn't use before the season started, so we just went with what he was going to use in highschool. I remember the Roadrunners were questioned earlier this season in a tourney, but it was over ruled. I wish we had known this before the season started. Too late to go back now, but at least people will now know.......
quote:
Originally posted by funnyhop

Believe me, the Pride and all of the other top tier teams work their behinds off. They are playing within the confines of the rules that were set by the governing bodies. The top tier teams have bigger stronger boys at 14U than the other teams. And, these same kids get to swing a hot, drop 5 bat if they choose to do it..........legally.

It is like giving a battlefield officer a choice between a cannon vs. sticks and rocks. Until the rules of engagement change for both sides evenly, the one who wins is usually the one who uses the cannon.

That being said, all things will even out in the end. The kids who are peaking now in physical maturity will be "chased down" by the slower maturing kids. It is just a matter of time before they are all using the same drop 3 BBCOR bats. The kids who were on the "best teams in the country" at 14U matter not at all to any college recruiter. Who cares, or better yet, who even remembers who wins these 14U tournaments?

The ones who worked on swing mechanics and fundamentals will prevail long term........regardless of bat drop or specifications.





Edited by - knucklecurve on 05/11/2012 14:40:17
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gamefanatic

40 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2012 :  17:09:20  Show Profile
Until the 14U tournaments all say BBCOR you will see very few BBCOR bats. We have a very expensive BBCOR bat in the bat bag being used very little. (Guess it will still be new next year for 15U) Our player was prepared to play with the BBCOR but is finding that the tournaments are allowing the -5 and the ridiculous USSSA stamp (or the 1.15 stamp) on the bats. Our understanding was that all the 14U teams would convert to BBCOR but they are not. Our players response is why handicap their team if the other teams are not using the BBCOR. He actually takes lessons with a -0 wood bat so he's not too worried about it. We've definitively seen an advantage to those teams using the -5 so why not. Not to start "that" discussion up again, but have seen very few umps check for the stamp anyway. Nothing really has changed from what we've seen.
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nastycurve

244 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2012 :  00:25:51  Show Profile
I agree with Ronicard. East Cobb Pride is a fine organization with great coaching. We played a very good championship game against them this fall. My son is in 8th grade and started JV for the High school and swung a 32/29 XL1, he didnt strike out all year while hitting either 3 or 4 in the lineup. The BBCOR bats are fine when everybody has to use them, it was a truly level playing field. Now that the travel season is underway, we are seeing very few BBCOR bats out there and in order to re-level the playing field we joined in the -5 party too. We swing the cat 5, if anybody is looking for a great deal on them, hit me up and I will put you in touch with a guy.
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knucklecurve

171 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2012 :  10:04:40  Show Profile
You have peaked my interest! What kind of deal can you get on that bat? There is still a lot of baseball to be played....... I guess there will be plenty of time for my son to get use to the BBCOR bat again, since highschool tryouts aren't until Jan.
quote:
Originally posted by nastycurve

I agree with Ronicard. East Cobb Pride is a fine organization with great coaching. We played a very good championship game against them this fall. My son is in 8th grade and started JV for the High school and swung a 32/29 XL1, he didnt strike out all year while hitting either 3 or 4 in the lineup. The BBCOR bats are fine when everybody has to use them, it was a truly level playing field. Now that the travel season is underway, we are seeing very few BBCOR bats out there and in order to re-level the playing field we joined in the -5 party too. We swing the cat 5, if anybody is looking for a great deal on them, hit me up and I will put you in touch with a guy.


Edited by - knucklecurve on 05/12/2012 14:33:04
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F2202

63 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2012 :  01:21:10  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by gamefanatic

Not to start "that" discussion up again, but have seen very few umps check for the stamp anyway.



You started it. I'll say it again, you have to ask the umpire to check a bat. A parent in the stands can't ask, at least not in my games. A coach can ask, the catcher can ask, the center fielder can ask. But until I'm asked to look at a bat, I'm not paying attention to it. I already asked the coaches about the bats at the plate meeting, so I assume their teams are using legal bats.

It's easy to ask. "Hey *name* (or Blue if you didn't bother to remember his name), would you check that bat? I don't think its legal." Better ask before that bat gets into the dugout, or the same bat probably won't come back out.

If I cannot find the proper stamp on the bat, I'll give the coach of the team who's at bat a chance to show me where the stamp is. If he can't show me a legal stamp, I'm calling the batter out and anyone that advanced on a hit ball is going back. I believe any advancements made while the batter is still at bat but before the illegal bat is discovered would stand - but I'll check on that.
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gamefanatic

40 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2012 :  12:51:28  Show Profile
Apologies F2202 - made the statement wrong and didn't intent to imply that the umps were responsible... just meant I wasn't intending to get into the "whose responsible" discussion again. That wasn't the point of the statement. Just that until the rules for this weird 14 age group are changed to all -3 BBCOR bats this type of discussion will still be around for the next millennium! Blue has enough to worry about without that as well. Not to go off topic but 14U is just a weird age -many are old enough for JV teams while others are still in 8th grade. Makes it tough and seems it would be to everyone's benefit to just make it -3 BBCOR (or wood) then no question at all. I get it that why have the perceived handicap of using BBCOR when not all the 14U's are not using them. Most of these kids are big enough to use -3 and they make many sizes so even the kids not yet "fully growed" should be able to find a size that works.
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nastycurve

244 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2012 :  12:33:49  Show Profile
I agree gamefanatic. Id rather see bbcor across the board at 14u. I think its pure baseball when the hitters do the work, not the bats.
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gamefanatic

40 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2012 :  14:22:28  Show Profile
Saw a team of big players from NC this weekend in the rain shortened Triple Crown. Those boys could hit! And- they all used BBCOR. Good technique will compensate for the BBCOR. It truly separates the good players with technique from the players that have been hanging on. Very impressed with this team this weekend and even more when I found out they were BBCOR - regardless of the bat rules that allowed the SS (stupid stamp.) We have two more months and then "it don't matter."
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F2202

63 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2012 :  13:09:49  Show Profile
IMO, at 14, the coaches should be more concerned with developing the kids into being better hitters rather than worrying about winning tournaments. Hitting with wood or BBCOR in the cages is great, but do the cages really translate to live pitching? The teams using -5 bats are just hurting themselves. Although it may hurt their scores or tournament outcomes, the teams using -3 BBCOR will be ready to hit when they turn 15 or play in high school.

As far as how to handle bat situations in games, my apologies for being an asshole. I completely intended to be one, and I probably shouldn't have. I would like people to be aware of how these things work now. Its completely different from last season. It's nice to hear someone that understands umpires have enough to worry about without looking and paying attention to every bat when the batter steps into the box.
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