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 9U General Discussion
 Importance of USSSA Points
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Catcherintherye

18 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2012 :  12:30:48  Show Profile
What is your opinion on the importance of USSSA points? I see a lot of teams busting their butt to play in lesser quality tournaments just to get more points. Do you get an advantage in seeding? End of the year ice cream cone? What gives?

Canton Chargers

885 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2012 :  14:14:20  Show Profile
If you want to go to one of their world series events, you have to qualify in a certain amount of tournaments, but other than that, some coaches think it is relevant, some irrelevant. The best teams are not necessarily in their rankings. Most coaches play certain tournaments for certain reasons. Rankings in one program are irrelevant to rankings in another most of time. If you are in the travel world, you normally know who are the best teams by seeing results at any tournaments over the course of x amount of tournaments, games, etc.. Every year the who's who discussions start here on this website and others... I vote on the ice cream cone theory for the coaches though... In short, it's all what the coaches want to do. Some play a lot of u-trip tourneys, some hardly play any.
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gwtstorm

68 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2012 :  11:46:12  Show Profile
We played the majority of our tournaments USSSA because we plan on going to the Global World Series in Al at seasons end. This is an opened tournament sanctioned by USSSA and the points help your pool play seeding. This is also true in the State tournaments, which we will play as well. That's the only reason for us. Next year if we end up at a Grand Slam,Triple Crown or Nations tourney we will not need the points. I think that's what the points are for, I could be wrong.
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in_the_know

985 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2012 :  13:17:30  Show Profile
It is important for seeding pools, however it may become a moot point. Of course, this is limited to USSSA tourneys.

If you look at how pools are supposed to be seeded, they stripe the pools based on USSSA points. So in a 4 pool tourney, 1,2,3 & 4 in points should be the one seed in each of the four pools. Then stripe backwards with 5,6,7,8. Then forward again 9,10,11,12. So Pool A would have 1,8,9; Pool B 2,7,10; Pool C 3,7,11; and Pool D 4,5,12.

So if all these teams talent reflect their point totals in USSSA, the pools are accurate and fair.

However, suppose that one team plays nothing but 2nd and 3rd tier USSSA tourneys and accrue a boatload of points and are the 1 seed. Likewise, one of the top teams in the country who has played little to no USSSA tourneys comes in with few points and are ranked 9th. They'd be in pool A and possibly be the strongest team in the pool, so really, any "advantage" of seeding that the 1 seed had gone after doesn't exist.

So at the end of the day, because USSSA points don't necessarily reflect a true team's ranking, pools won't always end up balanced as the system is designed to do.

What it does do is provide a standard method for seeding pools that will remove the conspiracy theory that rumbles when the pools are released.
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in_the_know

985 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2012 :  16:38:56  Show Profile
Sorry, typo, Pool C would be 3,6,11
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stick that stirrs the pot

38 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2012 :  08:49:48  Show Profile
This is the way it is advertised and is supposed to be done, however tournament directors will throw this method out of the window on a moments notice if he has to start shuffling to meet special request. IMO THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE TO POINTS UNTIL THE DIRECTORS START USING THEM CORRECTLY.For this reason,we started playing in other venues and will continue to do so until USSSA starts striping them correctly.
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in_the_know

985 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2012 :  11:21:02  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by stick that stirrs the pot

This is the way it is advertised and is supposed to be done, however tournament directors will throw this method out of the window on a moments notice if he has to start shuffling to meet special request. IMO THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE TO POINTS UNTIL THE DIRECTORS START USING THEM CORRECTLY.For this reason,we started playing in other venues and will continue to do so until USSSA starts striping them correctly.



Hence my disclaimer in my post "If you look at how pools are supposed to be seeded,. . . "

More to the point of my post, however, is that, even if proper seeding is followed, points aren't necessarily a true and accurate reflection of the talent rankings of the teams entered. It is accurate of which team has happened to accrue the most points. So a team may work their tails off to accrue points to be an overall pool 1 seed, only to find out they're 2nd or 3rd best team in their pool.

Edited by - in_the_know on 05/17/2012 11:44:26
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stick that stirrs the pot

38 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2012 :  13:45:21  Show Profile
I agree with you, but i would say to seed it by power rating and you would have a much more accurate pool play.
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3N2

14 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2012 :  14:00:44  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by stick that stirrs the pot

I agree with you, but i would say to seed it by power rating and you would have a much more accurate pool play.



Power Ratings would be the most accurate pool rankings for sure...
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ramman999

241 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2012 :  13:57:34  Show Profile
Very important for National tournaments (Elite 32, AAA world series, etc.) - points dictate seeding for pools, as mentioned prior.
If you don't plan on shooting for a world series, then it doesn't matter.
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mrbama31

252 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2012 :  15:58:06  Show Profile
I understand the idea...the better teams have more points and if you are the bottom in total points you get a tougher pool schedule.....problem with that is the teams with the most points are not always the strongest.

I've seen teams work the buts off playing in bunches of USSSA tourneys accumulating all the points they can get so they can get the "good" draw only to get sucker punched by the system and draw a loaded team that doesn't really care who they draw because they feel superior and plays very little USSSA.

I say qualify for the tourneys you would like to play in (State, World etc) and then choose tournaments based on more important things than points because there are no guarantees that the points will help you at all.

quote:
Originally posted by ramman999

Very important for National tournaments (Elite 32, AAA world series, etc.) - points dictate seeding for pools, as mentioned prior.
If you don't plan on shooting for a world series, then it doesn't matter.


Edited by - mrbama31 on 06/07/2012 16:27:40
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RHRN

13 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2012 :  18:55:01  Show Profile
points are kind of a waste of time. If you have a strong team, it will show in bracket play. Points do help with an easier pool draw (sometimes) but not worth it in my opinion. Just go play the best competition every chance you get regardless of the sanctioning body.
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