| Author |
 Topic  |
|
TeamATLbaseball
18 Posts |
 Posted - 06/04/2018 : 13:55:29
|
in tournaments every year it seems.
If NWO and Buckhead are playing rec ball and then coming with their allstar players and beating these supposed "major" teams in tournaments, what's the justification for the high priced academy teams? |
Edited by - TeamATLbaseball on 06/04/2018 14:00:08 |
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2018 : 19:31:38
|
| It's a Process. The process of emptying the pockets of the parents and feeding false profit development lies. |
 |
|
|
baseball fan 07
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2018 : 22:18:47
|
| I saw this same question in the 12u post. It's almost sounding like a plug for NYO and Buckhead but I could be wrong - wouldn't be the 1st time. I don't have a dog in this fight (in terms of the teams that have been mentioned who they beat this wknd or know the prices to play for them) but IMO, teams play "major" to face the top competition week in and week and typically have deeper pitching to last in larger tournaments. Just b/c they are "major" doesn't mean they guarantee a win every time they step on the field against any team that's not "major" - they are 12! If these teams played best of 7, probably a different result (then again, they're 12 - who knows)!. Wouldn't be the 1st time in sports a lower seed beat a higher seed. |
|
|
|
TeamATLbaseball
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 07:53:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by baseball fan 07
I saw this same question in the 12u post. It's almost sounding like a plug for NYO and Buckhead but I could be wrong - wouldn't be the 1st time. I don't have a dog in this fight (in terms of the teams that have been mentioned who they beat this wknd or know the prices to play for them) but IMO, teams play "major" to face the top competition week in and week and typically have deeper pitching to last in larger tournaments. Just b/c they are "major" doesn't mean they guarantee a win every time they step on the field against any team that's not "major" - they are 12! If these teams played best of 7, probably a different result (then again, they're 12 - who knows)!. Wouldn't be the 1st time in sports a lower seed beat a higher seed.
That was my point, just because a team signs up for or claims they are "major" does not mean that they are better than a non "major" team. And no it's not a plug for NYO or Buckhead Braves, it's simply stating facts based on what happeedn at Triple Crown.
Like Punishers said the "major" and Academy team high costs does not guarantee you are better than teams that are not in the business of trying to make a profit off of youth baseball. |
Edited by - TeamATLbaseball on 06/05/2018 09:27:46 |
|
|
|
Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 09:06:38
|
| I think it's all about the players. If you can take a pretty good or talented group of 6U coach pitch players and keep the best of them together and each year pick up a better player and drop the ones that are not as good eventually if everyone is happy you can compete at any level. Especially if you have some arms. I saw a team years ago at 6U win most tournaments, finished top 2 every year in the world series.. and each year get better and better until they were one of the best teams in the country. They eventually landed at a big named Organization but could have kept doing what they were doing no matter where they played or who coached them. They were like no team I have ever seen, would come back and beat you even when you thought the game was over. One of the few teams I saw play up an age group and actually make runs at championships. |
|
|
|
Chet
28 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 09:09:26
|
| What’s the justification? It depends. We are in Forsyth county and my 06 was not enjoying or competing at a reasonable level in the rev programs up here. For us, travel was the only option if you wanted to play actual baseball. We are on an academy team now for that reason. Have spent a ton of time (and having watched my sons team lose to Buckhead this weekend) around travel teams from both these parks, it’s obvious that the size and strength of their rec program is different that what we were staring at. Big leagues, the best players playing up and age group and facing better competition in park. This is not what all of us have access to. |
|
|
|
baseball fan 07
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 10:43:43
|
| I'm sure everyone has their own reasons to sign up for where they're playing. Not everybody's local park can put together a competitive team so they should definitely keep that going. Where I'm located, that's not an option. My son played against this Buckhead team a couple years ago (I'm guessing it's the same team) and I've always liked the way they compete and they are very talented. I might be in the minority, I don't think all parents sign their child up for "major" baseball so they can say they're better than non major teams (I realize some do) but again, it's about the ability to compete on a consistent basis against other very good teams mostly throughout the region, no matter what class. |
|
|
|
TeamATLbaseball
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 10:45:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by Chet
What’s the justification? It depends. We are in Forsyth county and my 06 was not enjoying or competing at a reasonable level in the rev programs up here. For us, travel was the only option if you wanted to play actual baseball. We are on an academy team now for that reason. Have spent a ton of time (and having watched my sons team lose to Buckhead this weekend) around travel teams from both these parks, it’s obvious that the size and strength of their rec program is different that what we were staring at. Big leagues, the best players playing up and age group and facing better competition in park. This is not what all of us have access to.
But if everyone goes back to rec, and then rec all stars, and then tourneys then the competition would be back in rec like how it used to be several years ago. Why don't more local parks do it the NYO and Buckhead way instead of paying thousands of dollars every year for a team that is no better than 2 rec teams paying only in the hundreds. |
|
|
|
baseball fan 07
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 10:47:16
|
| I also don't think losing one tournament is a deciding factor if one program is better than another. Triple crown state might have been NYO and Buckhead's big tournament for the year. The programs that lost could have been using that tournament to get additional games in before their big season ending tournament. No excuses, I just know teams have different objectives going into tournaments. As far as costs - yes, I'm sure I academy's are more expensive but don't academy's have all levels of teams in each age group? So playing at an academy probably doesn't have much to do w/ being "major" as it does being a part of a program w/ a lot of resources. All major teams are not part of expensive academy's either, all about finding the right situation for your child. Again, no dog in the fight just a different perspective. I'm sure I need some education around academy's and how they work. At the end of the day, congrats to NYO and Buckhead- that's an impressive wknd. |
Edited by - baseball fan 07 on 06/05/2018 10:53:58 |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 11:20:56
|
| Regardless what people say. Your $2K plus low-major, mid-major, sub-major, high-major teams got beat by rec all-stars. There is no excuse that can be given due to the fact the travel teams have been playing tournaments since last August and have twice as many or more games under their belt. A percentage of this can be attributed to bad coaching being exposed. Many may think that this was 1 tournament luck. What I saw was a stable team that just out-played everyone in their way and was very consistent doing it. Do the math and let me know if it makes sense: $4500 team just got beat by a $500 team. Looks like you just wasted $4000 for some sales pitch garbage. Now you have to make excuses to justify to yourself why $4500 was worth it. |
|
|
|
Baseball66
7 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 11:21:11
|
Chet- I agree with you. I have watched it become a right of passage at Eastside, Hobgood, and Kennesaw (amazing rec programs at 5-8 years old) for the kids to leave rec ball for travel ball at 8 years old. It leaves these parks depleted of talent so the rest of the kids/families have no choice but to find a travel team. It's a blessing and a curse to live so close to these good travel ball teams/academies because there are so many choices. Buckhead and NYO do a great job of keeping their players, but it is easier for them because there are not many travel ball options in that area and parents with several kids do not want to drive an hour to a practice. Besides, if your 9,10,11,12 year old is having a great time with their teammates AND the team is doing very well, why would they leave that situation? If those teams get knocked out of a tournament early, they go back to the Jones' for a pool party or go grab a bite to eat together as a team...it's hard to have that unity as a travel ball program that has kids from all over the place. I have seen too many young kids getting on board the travel baseball carousel and by the time they are 13, they have played with 4 different teams because 1. Coach wasn't good 2. Team wasn't good 3. Little Johnny did not get an opportunity to play SS etc. Then, it is no longer fun.
Don't get me wrong, I love travel ball...but I think more parks should try to create a hybrid situation to keep their kids from leaving before the age of 13. |
|
|
|
Baseball66
7 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 11:31:20
|
Chet- I agree with you. I have watched it become a right of passage at Eastside, Hobgood, and Kennesaw for the kids to leave rec ball at 8 years old. It leaves these parks depleted of talent so the rest of the kids/families have no choice but to find a travel team. It's a blessing and a curse to live so close to these good travel ball teams/academies because there are so many choices. Buckhead and NYO do a great job of keeping their players, but it is easier for them because there are not many travel ball options in that area and parents with several kids do not want to drive an hour to a practice. Besides, if you 9,10,11,12 year old is having a great time with their teammates (pool parties, sleep overs, etc) AND their team is being very successful, why look at an expensive travel ball program before 13.
After all, who cares how good a kid is BEFORE puberty...doesn't really matter until after 13 (probably 15,16,17). |
|
|
|
Chet
28 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 11:46:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by TeamATLbaseball
quote:
Originally posted by Chet
What’s the justification? It depends. We are in Forsyth county and my 06 was not enjoying or competing at a reasonable level in the rev programs up here. For us, travel was the only option if you wanted to play actual baseball. We are on an academy team now for that reason. Have spent a ton of time (and having watched my sons team lose to Buckhead this weekend) around travel teams from both these parks, it’s obvious that the size and strength of their rec program is different that what we were staring at. Big leagues, the best players playing up and age group and facing better competition in park. This is not what all of us have access to.
But if everyone goes back to rec, and then rec all stars, and then tourneys then the competition would be back in rec like how it used to be several years ago. Why don't more local parks do it the NYO and Buckhead way instead of paying thousands of dollars every year for a team that is no better than 2 rec teams paying only in the hundreds.
Buckhead and NYO have 1500 plus kids. It’s simple math, other parks don’t have the same volume of players to work from. |
|
|
|
Bombernation
51 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 11:54:22
|
| Was it the Cougs that got beat? Or was it the Tigers or Jags? |
|
|
|
Chet
28 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 12:06:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Regardless what people say. Your $2K plus low-major, mid-major, sub-major, high-major teams got beat by rec all-stars. There is no excuse that can be given due to the fact the travel teams have been playing tournaments since last August and have twice as many or more games under their belt. A percentage of this can be attributed to bad coaching being exposed. Many may think that this was 1 tournament luck. What I saw was a stable team that just out-played everyone in their way and was very consistent doing it. Do the math and let me know if it makes sense: $4500 team just got beat by a $500 team. Looks like you just wasted $4000 for some sales pitch garbage. Now you have to make excuses to justify to yourself why $4500 was worth it.
At 11u at least where my son plays both NYO and Buckhead play a fall travel schedule. I would bet that these teams have per player fees over the course of the year that are well in excess of $1000 if not $2000. These aint your regular rec all stars. |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 12:09:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Chet
quote:
Originally posted by TeamATLbaseball
quote:
Originally posted by Chet
What’s the justification? It depends. We are in Forsyth county and my 06 was not enjoying or competing at a reasonable level in the rev programs up here. For us, travel was the only option if you wanted to play actual baseball. We are on an academy team now for that reason. Have spent a ton of time (and having watched my sons team lose to Buckhead this weekend) around travel teams from both these parks, it’s obvious that the size and strength of their rec program is different that what we were staring at. Big leagues, the best players playing up and age group and facing better competition in park. This is not what all of us have access to.
But if everyone goes back to rec, and then rec all stars, and then tourneys then the competition would be back in rec like how it used to be several years ago. Why don't more local parks do it the NYO and Buckhead way instead of paying thousands of dollars every year for a team that is no better than 2 rec teams paying only in the hundreds.
Buckhead and NYO have 1500 plus kids. It’s simple math, other parks don’t have the same volume of players to work from.
That's an easy fix. Shut down some of those parks that within a 10 mile radius of each other and consolidate to 1 park. instead of having greedy associations building parks 2 miles away from each other and splitting up the talent pool with watered down teams. |
Edited by - Punishers on 06/05/2018 22:14:34 |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
|
|
baseball fan 07
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 12:25:55
|
Again, I don't know the price for every major travel team but I can assure you not all teams pay as much as what I'm seeing posted here. I also don't attribute the price parents choose to pay should correlate to how many wins a team should have or who they should win or lose to. My son plays for a high level major team, doesn't cost nearly as much as what I'm seeing here and my 1st thought when we win or lose is not - "I wonder how much it costs to play for that team." With that mindset, the NY Yankees should be undefeated every year. Granted I haven't seen neither of these teams play this year, I'm glad they're able to put together a competitive team and did well in triple crown state. I have learned one thing - it's a completely different game when your team is a target and get every teams best shot every weekend. I hope both programs continue to do well.
And I believe it was the Cougs, Kennesaw and GA Power that lost? Not exactly sure |
Edited by - baseball fan 07 on 06/05/2018 22:14:34 |
|
|
|
Bombernation
51 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2018 : 17:34:24
|
| Crickets. |
|
|
|
Bombernation
51 Posts |
|
|
KeithB
282 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2018 : 08:57:37
|
I think every park system would like to be able to mimic this model. Save folks a ton of money. I know I would here in FOCO.
Rather than shutting down parks, combine them at all-star time. |
|
|
|
mikepayne
173 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2018 : 10:50:42
|
| If you and your kid are happy with the team you are on, why so much concern with what other folks are doing? All-stars are great because most of the kids are good players, the problem is in the spring with your regular rec. team where 5 of the 12 kids do not want to be out there. |
|
|
|
bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2018 : 11:02:00
|
Most all-star teams would get beat, if not, run-ruled by top travel ball teams, are there exceptions, obviously there are. The two rec organizations mentioned are not your typical rec organizations. These are HUGE organizations that would rival the biggest travel ball organizations and dwarf the others.
Generally speaking, it is simple math, as most rec organizations just don't have a huge number of players to pull talent from and they are limited by geographical boundaries. Top travel teams don't have those limitations; however, with all the travel organizations sprouting up in Georgia, the talent is getting spread out and it is hard to be dominant EVERY weekend.
|
|
|
|
Bombernation
51 Posts |
|
|
bkball
173 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2018 : 14:49:45
|
Curious how East Marietta is doing these days? They used to have a big park turnout over there and some of their allstar teams were really good.
Have they lost numbers as well. |
|
|
|
BREAMKING
323 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2018 : 16:50:19
|
| Shaw park baseball out of business you would think sandy plains would have picked up kids that would have played over there. How are numbers at sandy plains 9-12 year olds. Shame to see shaw park go to softball another tax payer waste. Nobody ever out there I guess it has turned into a nicer bells ferry park. County should lease this stuff out instead of just giving to sandy plains softball getting these parks and not hardly ever using them. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
NYO and Buckhead Braves beating "Academy" Teams
