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Big Daddy
132 Posts |
 Posted - 08/07/2014 : 16:09:43
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| In your experience, how important/impactful was it that your son either played or didn't play top level competition at younger ages and how did that impact their career (good or bad) as a HS baseball player/collegiate player? I have always been curious what impact that had on a player in the older age groups...playing major/aaa/aa from ages 9-14. Thanks! |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2014 : 19:02:27
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| I think it has more to do with skill and commitment come high school then it does the level of play at the younger ages. My son played AA at 9/10 and did not play majors until 13. He made the high school varsity team as a freshman. But, he had the skill and put in a lot of work in 8th grade. I say before age 12, keep it fun, so they want to keep playing. |
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ATLDodgers
21 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2014 : 22:23:58
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My son is 16 and a Junior this year. He played both varsity and jv his freshman year(only freshman to do so) and he played all varsity his sophomore year(only sophomore to do so).
I say that to preface these comments:
1. In your younger years, you need to be on a team where your son can compete and is an integral part of the team, regardless of the competition(within reason). A bunch of 15-1 games either way is NOT helping your child.
2. What is most important is repetition, good work ethics and habits, great coaching and training.
3. TRAINING - your son needs to work outside of practice once or twice a week to really improve and get ahead. If all hes doing is practice, its not enough and as they get older, the players who worked harder will bypass him.
4. Also, if you can play up. Always challenge them. As scary as it may be at first, they will adapt and if they are talented, dedicated and hard working they will excel.
There will be 8th, 9th, 10th(and some crappy 11th)graders on JV, if your son wants to excel, he has to play against older kids earlier. Don't let his first time seeing a 60/90 field be his first day of JV tryouts. Its ok if he doesn't do well initially, he needs the experience.
My son played majors at 10 and 11, AAA at 12, at 13 he played AA15u, at 14 we played AA and AAA 16u, at 15 we played AAA 16u and this past year at 16, we played 18u all summer. College coaches and pro scouts have shown him interest and he's not intimidated by any situation on a baseball field, travel or high school. He batted over .350 in 45 games this summer, against guys two years older and committed to college.
All in all, I would say play against the best competition YOU can play against, play up, always train, compete and work hard. Make sure you are on a team where you are in the game, and the games are challenging. |
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bestplayinbaseball
67 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2014 : 23:06:38
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We never gave into the pressure of more expensive, or name brand baseball equates to success as a player. Played Rec ball til 12, no all stars in the summer either. He played spring ball with his age and aged up for fall baseball. Summers we vacationes, swim league, other sports. He focused on pitching lessons,hitting and defense lesson perhaps once or twice a month. Always focused on good fundamental coaching, playing the game, and never on plastic. Lost more than he won, probably 450 baseball, but always striving to fix things, get better. Lots of 1,2,3 run win/loss games. No big tournament victories, but a few :) Never have paid more than 1800 for a season up til age 14. The teams always had matching shirts and hats.........always white or grey pants. Minimal other equipment investments. Beat decked out teams with high profile names. Never traveled too far from ATL area. Did Cooperstown, and one "summer" baseball vaca.
If we played local, but on the far side of travel time or traffic conflicts ....we would spend a nite close to venue once in a while to cut out the long drive.
Did all stars at 12, AAA that fall that played up in tournaments thru age 14.
Summer before HS and fall found a developmental program that was more formal and the price went up to 2200 for summer, 1000 for fall. Focused on speed, agility, weights, running, conditioning at about 13. Pushing that much harder now. Shorter, pudgy as a younger kid now 6'4" 210 HS Jr......
Jr.in H S now,, college interests this past summer. Will see what the fall brings.
Made the JV team frosh and soph year as a positioned player/pitcher called to varsity to pitch frosh year. AAAAAA school, 2900 plus students.
Just let em play :) |
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LittleDawg
91 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2014 : 09:40:04
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Great Topic! For our family, we've been through it all. Oldest son, now a High School Jr - plays on varsity team, At the younger ages, he played rec through 12, than played 13UAAA, 14UAA, 15UAAA.
Middle son - We got caught up in the craziness. Started travel ball at 10. He played for a team that started out AAA but quickly settled back to AA, than A level. At 12, he played AA and did Cooperstown and at 13/14 played for a big name academy team, which was nothing more than a AA team, and is trying out for Freshman team this yr. For the most part at the younger ages, he played at the level of their competition.
With the youngest. He has played Travel ball since 8U but only to give him exposure to the game (lead-offs, balks, steals, etc). 8U and 9U he played for a Major team. At 10 he played AA/AAA and since we've "been there before" are making 11 and 12 about development. He absolutely loves the game and is with a team that doesn't care about wins/losses. The coaches are committed to development, discipline and core fundamentals. They push them to play at a higher level of competition and like ATLDodgers says above, the boys are not intimidated. They don't win much but they are learning each and every game they play.
So for the younger aged boys, I'd say, find a program that is positive and provides more than just baseball for baseball sake. Find one that provides development on and off the field. Challenges the boys to work hard and get better and tries to play at a higher level of competition, regardless of what ranking that have. Remember, Puberty changes everything. Studs at 9-13 aren't necessarily the same once everyone else catches up.
Most of the boys playing today will be done by the time they are 15. Keep it fun and let them be kids as long as possible.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2014 : 13:28:30
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My son is only 12, but I thought I would chime in my two cents. My son started playing travel ball at age 9, we did this because he loved the sport and travel gave him the opportunity to play 10 months out of the year which rec ball could not. In my limited experience if your son doesn't LOVE the sport then there is no point in travel ball. Kids that are just there because their parents want them to be, or because it's just what they think they have to do, bring the rest of the team down. It's the passion for the sport that keeps us in travel ball, along with the more complex instruction.
We have all been on a team with a kid who didn't really want to be there...maybe they over exaggerated an injury to get out of playing or for attention, or maybe you just see it in their attitude when they run the first. This is frequently a problem in rec ball. We have all also been on a team with a child who loved the sport. That kid that gets hit with a pitch squarely on the arm and you KNOW that had to hurt, but he gathers himself up and runs to first...just like he runs to every position on the field. He loves the game, and it is him who should be playing travel ball (even if it's single A) where his love can be transformed into something productive that he will have stories about for years. |
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Big Daddy
132 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2014 : 16:50:38
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My son just completed his 12U season and he has played major at 10, 11 and 12 years old and AAA at 8's and 9. Next year will be the 3rd year on the same team, which I think is important as he has so much fun with this group of kids. Like many of you, I believe that the key to all of this is having fun which makes them come back year after year, because unlike a sport like basketball, baseball can get pretty boring from time to time.
I guess my question is more philosophical.....would my son be the same player at 17 years old having played AA his whole career as opposed to playing at the level he has. His athletic ability is a constant in both scenario's, the coaching quality should be a constant (assuming I did my job as a dad), but the competition is vastly different. SO......does competition level matter at the younger ages and does it translate to the older ages in terms of performance? |
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patent pending
66 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2014 : 18:31:15
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| In theory your son should be more polished player than the AAA peers. More experience comes from playing majors tournaments etc. I think the true major type players standout above all at the high school level. Other players make the team. Major players change the game. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2014 : 20:28:33
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| Big Daddy: I was about to write a bunch of stuff but in the end it boils down to yes. The level of competition does matter. The speed of the game gets faster and Im not talking just about pitching. Too many kids get complacent having never seen the real deal. |
Edited by - rippit on 08/08/2014 21:01:10 |
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Big Daddy
132 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2014 : 08:22:50
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| Does is rippit? I just looked up the roster history of Clint Frazier and Austin Meadows and was quite surprised. From 9-14 years old, neither kid played major and in fact Frazier played AA for 2 years and they were both drafted early in the first round of the MLB draft....and I know they may be the exception to the rule. Where I'm going with this is I think a gifted athlete can adapt to the speed of the game/faster pitching very quickly, having not seen it at younger ages. The huge sacrifice that often accompanies playing on a top major team may not be worth it....assuming your kids goal is to play HS and beyond. I'm just trying to stir up some lively discussion as I grew weary of a certain 12U thread...... |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2014 : 10:10:40
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| Nothing much matters before puberty as long as you're playing and having fun. When things start to get semi-serious and puberty is working, making sure you're playing (riding the pine on a super-elite team isn't going to be as good as playing on a good team) for coaches who know what they're doing and against competition that's at least as good as you are is what's important, not the name on the jersey or the numbers on the check you write. By the time you're playing HS Varsity aged travel, the competition pool will be small enough that the distinction between team levels won't be that important. 5% of HS Varsity players play past HS, which tells you how much hard work is involved, but that's still thousands of players every year, and they can't all play for the Astros/Roadrunners/insert elite team name here. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2014 : 10:30:48
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BD - I was going to post this last night but didn't...athletes figure it out. Now, it still takes training and development but that can happen at any level. Example, a kid who I think is the one of best 12U hitters (i am sure you know who I am talking about) the country played A ball from 8U - 10U. We picked him up at the end of the 10U season and I remember a couple our coaches saying that he wasn't used to pitching at our level...essentially doubting that he could hit at the major level because he played A ball. I told them to give him a few at bats and surely enough, he was clearly the best hitter on our (very good hitting) team by the second tournament. The kid has hit around .600 two straight years...and we keep real stats...and we usually see everyone's best arms.
The best hitters/players seem to adjust and succeed and any circumstance. A lot of it is training but God-given talent also plays it's part. |
Edited by - hshuler on 08/09/2014 11:11:11 |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2014 : 10:51:11
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Okay Big Daddy let's back up a step. I thought you were asking about PLAYING AGAINST top competition rather than ON A TOP TEAM. I don't believe you have to play on a top team. I believe you need to play top competition in order to see what the heck is out there. At the younger ages, if you are on an AA team, you play other AA teams and may think yourself a stud. After 14, a team is a team is a team and you can call yourselves whatever you want, but at the end of the day you need to play to good tourneys with good teams win or lose. Measure yourself against a top pitcher, not a kid throwing 60, and see if you are still a stud.
For some, it's not as much pure gifted athletic ability. Some grind it out. They persevere. Some fly in stealth mode off the radar and then BAM! They get noticed by somebody, somewhere, somehow. There's only so much room on the few stud teams left in Atlanta in the upper age groups. Is sitting 50% of the time on one of those teams worth it vs playing 80% of the time on another team that may not win as much but they are still playing in the EXACT SAME TOURNEYS as the stud team? I say it's not.
Back to the younger ages, too many parents make too big a deal about playing "major". They need to read the previous paragraph. Living in a garage does not make me a car mechanic just as sitting in the dugout of a major team does not make you a major player. Seize your opportunities to try out for a better team each year...sure. But remember that you have to do work in the off season, away from all your team stuff in order to get better. |
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KeithB
282 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2014 : 11:34:49
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| My son is playing 9U AA this season after playing all rec (no all star) from 6U up to this point. We'll see how it goes. |
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zwndad
170 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2014 : 13:26:50
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Regarding Clint and Austin, a lot has changed in travel ball in the last few years. As I'm sure you know, they grew up near each other. Starting about 9U, they played on the same team together. Regardless of that team's classification, they were a team to be feared ... deep talent with excellent coaching. My oldest son played against them for years. So, no, they didn't play for one of the big brand names early on, but most of those didn't exist yet or were just becoming prominent (ECB being the big exception).
With that said, they are a good example of finding great coaching and a group of talented boys who enjoy competing together. The difference between those guys other kids is in their God-given abilities, not which team they played for.
On another note, most of the kids whose parents are on this board will NOT play professional or even top D1 baseball. For those who do, great for you. Regardless, from my experience, getting to the "next level" beyond high school (especially below the D1 & pro level) is about hard work/dedication, passion for the game, staying healthy, and getting looked at by the right coach at the right time.
If your young player seems to have a passion and ability for the game at a young age, do what you can to keep that fire burning as long as possible. You'll have to get a feel for what works for your player and your family. It's a great ride, and odds are that they will quit before the college level, so enjoy the ride.
College baseball is hard, every day. You compete every single day against the guys who want your job or the guy who has the job you want. It never stops, and they bring in new guys all the time to compete against you. It is a full time grind, and if you're not a full-time grinder with the passion of the game, you won't last.
When we first went through the recruiting cycle, I heard several coaches say that they lose at least 50% of their freshmen every year ... they quit for whatever reason or get cut. Now, only a couple of years in, I can see that's true. |
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gloveside2
138 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2014 : 15:48:30
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| big difference between 9u and 16u..you should start playing high level by age 13 or when bases get to 60/90 if you plan on doing well long term. Its more for the fact of seeing good pitching or if a pitcher facing good hitters. Seeing a top velo fastball in the summer makes hitting during school so much easier. Plus its more fun to face the best. To be the best you have to beat the best. Also people put too much stock in usssa rosters when most kids who are top notch do not even play usssa after age 13. I played against Meadows and Frazier many times and it was never in a usssa tourney. |
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wjeggert
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2014 : 20:26:01
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| My son is now a senior, he has played since he was 4. Travel since 9 and high level since 16. He now has several options for college ball. We have spent thousands of dollars in the past years. We have done the Cooperstown, Ripken, Disney, and later the fort Myers and lots of perfect game tourneys. Like everything in life there have been highs and lows, but throughout the process he has had fun. He has played on and off with a great core of kids and coaches, but has ventured off to find the right fit at the right times. We have for most of it let him make his mind up where he chooses to tryout, and what position/s to work on. He has also learned a great deal from professional instructors and enjoyed getting better and learned valuable life's lessons of getting cut and not making certain teams. I have learned much from the process along with him. I try to remember it does him no good to make excuses, blame "daddy" ball programs or get caught up in the endless drama of the politics that show it's ugly head all too often. I'm sure I have made countless mistakes along the way as a dad, but not for the lack of trying. Coaching the early years, to giving way to other dads with more experience to paying former pros and instructors to guide and push my son to the limits, we have tried to make those transitions at the right time. Throughout the process we neglected one critical point. Fortunately my son is very diligent in his studies.... Gets that from his mom for sure. But we almost forgot to ready him for those college tests. Colleges are looking for great players, we all know that, but they are balancing lots of good players and some "project" type players. We got my son in with a SAT tutor for approximately 3 months durin his junior year. This decision may prove to be our smartest move and investment. That tutoring helped him score 250 points higher than the previous year. That becomes a huge "selling" point to get into the higher academic colleges, pumps up the academic money and show the college coach that he is getting a dedicated kid that is more than just athlete. One college coach told us not too long ago that he has hundreds of excellent players to pick from for his team. He wants excellent students that are great ball players. I am certain this is where my son will be playing next fall. Don't forget the priorities. |
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Cowboy21
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2014 : 21:32:56
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| Well said wjeggert and congrats. |
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Advice from those of you that have been there..
