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nastycurve
244 Posts |
 Posted - 01/04/2015 : 23:22:03
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I have a friend who's son is on a high level 13u travel team. Her son is one of four 8th graders on the team. The dilemma is whether to forego playing on the HS JV team in order to play 13u ball with his travel team. My opinion is that he should play JV, as he will see older stronger kids and then return to play the summer with the travel team. I think hes at the point where he should be playing up in order to prepare for HS and the 15-18u age group of travel, but thats another story 
What would you do? Forego HS in 8th grade to play travel, or play travel this year and then go out for HS in 9th grade? |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2015 : 09:55:49
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| Have you talked with the 13u travel ball coach? It's my understanding that when kids start to play on their high school teams the travel coaches take that into account and schedule tourneys around the typical HS playing times. We haven't been through this but I do know of a kid that has been on one of the best travel teams in the country for the last 3 years and he plays HS ball as well. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2015 : 10:34:57
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If your son will be going to a GHSA school, he is not eligible to play for a HS team as an 8th grader. Here is part of the rule from the GHSA rule book stating that someone must be in grades 9-12 to play sports in HS:
1.20 - ENROLLMENT AND TEAM MEMBERSHIP
1.21 To be eligible to participate and/or try-out for a sport or activity, a student must be enrolled full time in grades 9-12 inclusive at the school seeking eligibility for that student.
I don't know the rules for GISA or any other organizations, but either way, I would check to make sure that he will have more than 4 years of eligibility if one of these other sanctioning bodies allows for middle schoolers to play for the HS. |
Edited by - bballman on 01/05/2015 10:49:16 |
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nastycurve
244 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2015 : 13:29:23
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I think the coach thinks higher of his program than most highschools. They have tourneys scheduled in March already. HS tourneys 15-18 usually start at the end of May, and go through June and July as to not conflict with the HS season.
Bball, that rule is for varsity level competition. Only 9-12 graders are eligible for varsity competition, while 8th graders can play JV. I think the rule came from when they still had 8th grade in the HS... long time ago lol |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2015 : 14:29:55
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quote:
Originally posted by nastycurve
Bball, that rule is for varsity level competition. Only 9-12 graders are eligible for varsity competition, while 8th graders can play JV. I think the rule came from when they still had 8th grade in the HS... long time ago lol
Not sure you are right on this one nastycurve. Here is another excerpt from the GHSA rules:
1.42 A student has eight (8) consecutive semesters or four (4) consecutive years of eligibility from the date of entry into the ninth grade to be eligible for interscholastic competition.
(a) A student is not considered to have entered the 9th grade when high school level courses are taken if the student is regularly enrolled in a school in a grade below the ninth grade.
(b) Credits earned toward high school graduation which are taken below the ninth grade may be used when
considering high school eligibility.
1.43 Sub-varsity competitors must meet all eligibility requirements with the exception of the migratory rule.
Sounds like you may be talking about the HS summer team? If that is the case, I'm not sure on the rules for that. If you are talking about the HS season, you may want to research this even further so you are not making a mistake down the road. |
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nastycurve
244 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2015 : 08:11:37
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No worries brother. Coached a travel team of middle school age kids and a majority went to the same middle school, they came up in 8th grade and are now in 11th grade(time flies).
This is from the ghsa site:
BY-LAW 1.20 - ENROLLMENT AND TEAM MEMBERSHIP
8TH GRADE PARTICIPATION
SITUATION: May eighth-grade students participate on sub-varsity teams at a member school?
INTERPRETATION: Yes. Eighth-grade students in a feeder school for a member school may participate on one sub-varsity team, but never on a varsity team.
SITUATION: An eighth-grade student desires to try out in the Spring for the cheerleading team at a member school. Is this legal if the school the student is attending is a feeder school for the member school?
INTERPRETATION: Yes. Also, an eighth grade student in a private school that does not offer classes at the ninth grade level and above may try out for cheerleading at the public or private school serving that student's area of residence. Such a tryout must be preceded by a pre-enrollment at that GHSA school. The tryout establishes the student's eligibility at that school. NOTE: This procedure also applies to participation in spring football practice.
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BaseballMom6
233 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2015 : 09:44:44
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| That rule seems to apply to tryouts that occur prior to the following fall. Not actually competing in competitions. Cheerleading tryouts are held in the spring, but competitions are the following fall after the student would be in 9th grade. Same with spring football practice. Competition would not begin until the following fall when the player would be in 9th grade. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2015 : 10:02:39
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| Hello everyone...so by this interpretation why aren't all 8th graders trying out for the high school JV team? |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2015 : 10:23:44
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Obviously some ambiguity going on. I know from rule Rule 1.42 and Rule 1.43 that I quoted above, I wouldn't want to take the chance. Basically those are saying that a student has 8 semesters - 4 years - of eligibility to play HS sports and the eligibility requirements apply to Sub-Varsity competitors.
It's up to you nastycurve, but I would want to make sure that playing as an 8th grader does not end your son's HS career as a junior. Maybe you can play as an 8th grader, but I would think that would take up one year of his eligibility as a HS athlete. |
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nastycurve
244 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2015 : 12:54:07
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As long as I've known sports around here, kids could play JV in 8th grade, but couldn't compete in varsity sports until they were in 9th grade and it never affected hs eligibility. I never understood why kids who could come up and play didnt.
I believe "from the date of entry into the ninth grade" is the important part of the statement:
"by rule 1.42 A student has eight (8) consecutive semesters or four (4) consecutive years of eligibility from the date of entry into the ninth grade to be eligible for interscholastic competition."
I have a contact at GHSA and I posed the question to him, when I hear back from him I'll post it here. At least we can all get their stance on the situation.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2015 : 15:27:20
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| I'd be interested to hear their response. I very well could be wrong nastycurve. All I'm saying is make sure. The rules are obviously not as clear as we'd like them to be. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2015 : 19:53:24
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| Bballman is right. It changed right after those 8th graders who are juniors now played in hs. Sorry. |
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nastycurve
244 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2015 : 11:11:44
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No worries rippit, they must've changed it back :-)
Here is the email exchange(my initial email is at the bottom):
From: garyphillips@ghsa.net
Sent: #8206;Wednesday#8206;, #8206;January#8206; #8206;7#8206;, #8206;2015 #8206;10#8206;:#8206;20#8206; #8206;AM
To: asylvester99@aol.com
Eighth graders playing on the feeder pattern hs team's sub varsity does not effect the 8 semester rule.
Gary Phillips
GHSA
On 1/6/2015 12:37 PM, asylvester99@aol.com wrote:
Hi Gary hows it going? I was talking with some friends regarding middle schoolers in 8th grade being able to play with their high school JV. Ive known kids to do it for years, but some of the parents are saying that it will kill one year of the players HS eligibility, and that they will not be able to compete as a senior. Can you shed some light on this?
Are 8th graders at the middle school that feeds the high school able to play on the HS JV baseball team of the HS that they feed into? Will this kill one year of their eligibility?
Thanks,
Anthony
Here are the three rules on the GHSA website that we were looking at:
1.20 - ENROLLMENT AND TEAM MEMBERSHIP
1.21 To be eligible to participate and/or try-out for a sport or activity, a student must be enrolled full time in grades 9-12 inclusive at the school seeking eligibility for that student.
=========================
1.42 A student has eight (8) consecutive semesters or four (4) consecutive years of eligibility from the date of entry into the ninth grade to be eligible for interscholastic competition.
(a) A student is not considered to have entered the 9th grade when high school level courses are taken if the student is regularly enrolled in a school in a grade below the ninth grade.
(b) Credits earned toward high school graduation which are taken below the ninth grade may be used when
considering high school eligibility.
1.43 Sub-varsity competitors must meet all eligibility requirements with the exception of the migratory rule.
======================================
BY-LAW 1.20 - ENROLLMENT AND TEAM MEMBERSHIP
8TH GRADE PARTICIPATION
SITUATION: May eighth-grade students participate on sub-varsity teams at a member school?
INTERPRETATION: Yes. Eighth-grade students in a feeder school for a member school may participate on one sub-varsity team, but never on a varsity team.
Sent from Windows Mail |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2015 : 12:21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by nastycurve
Eighth graders playing on the feeder pattern hs team's sub varsity does not effect the 8 semester rule.
Do what you gotta do nastycurve. The bolded, underlined part of his response still makes me wonder. Is he talking about a feeder team as opposed to an actual JV team? Many schools have "feeder teams" that are composed of middle school kids and they call themselves the Centennial Junior Knights, for example. That is different than playing on the actual HS JV team. I still wonder. But that's just me. My son is past HS, but to this day, I have never seen an 8th grader playing on any HS team. Maybe my view is limited, but I personally haven't seen it or heard of it in Georgia.
Like I said, do what ya gotta do, but I'm still skeptical because of the "feeder" part of his comment. |
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nastycurve
244 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2015 : 12:37:26
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lol same here. I called him to clarify that statement. His words were feeder pattern refers to the middle school that feeds into the high school. For instance, over here Chapel Hill middle school feeds into Southwest Dekalb HS, so a Chapel Hill 8th grader can play at Southwest, but could not for instance play at Redan HS, only Redan middle school 8th graders could play on the JV at Redan HS.
Making myself feel old, but even when I was in HS almost 20 years ago 8th graders came up to play JV. My son is in 11th grade now at the same school, he and a bunch of his travel teammates came up, as did 1 or two guys in the year before them and one or two guys in the year after. Our coach always submits JV and Varsity rosters for eligibility and weve had no problems in forever, so we are good to go. Its rarely a lot of players that make the jump, just 1-3 that are good enough to play with the older kids.
Gary is a nice guy who always answers questions, a good resource if you ever need any clarification. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2015 : 13:33:56
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Good news then!! Learn something new everyday. I was always under the impression that you couldn't play on a HS team unless you were in HS in Georgia. I was wrong. Thanks for the clarification nastycurve.
Back to the original question. If this kid is in 8th grade, I think he should either go ahead and play on the JV team or at a minimum play on a 14 year old team to get on the big field before HS. JV is no where near the level of competition Varsity is, but it should be much better for him than playing on a 13 year old team. As long as he gets play time as an 8th grader. If he plays on a good 14 year old team, he should be more than ready to play HS ball the following year. My son played 14 as an 8th grader. In 9th grade, he wound up playing JV as a position player and was a starting pitcher on the Varsity team. In some ways he regretted not playing on the freshman team because he didn't get to play with his friends, but overall, he was happy with where he wound up. The year on the big field helped make him ready to do that. I think if he played on the smaller field prior to HS, it would have been too big of a jump to move to the big field AND play on Varsity.
JMHO. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2015 : 14:51:17
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| So....nastycurve....what do you do just have your 8th grader show up the High School Baseball tryouts? Should people perhaps email first to see if their school is okay with this or just show up? |
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ItsGodGiven
70 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2015 : 09:45:56
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| CaCo, some more advanced 8th graders may get invited by the high school coach. Don't take your 6th grader to the high school tryouts unless you want to be labeled as the "crazy" parent. Isn't your child younger? I wouldn't worry about middle school or high school until it's time to cross that bridge. Worry about today, tomorrow will take care of itself. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2015 : 11:32:54
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
So....nastycurve....what do you do just have your 8th grader show up the High School Baseball tryouts? Should people perhaps email first to see if their school is okay with this or just show up?
I would contact the coach in advance.
Some won't even entertain an 8th grader on JV, period. Many coaches have their process quite mature. Our HS coach won't consider a Jr. or Sr. as ever having a spot on JV, so that means that he's keeping his JV spots for FR/SO. He wouldn't think of taking a spot away from one of those players who he will be looking to get to varsity sooner rather than later. If he has a player in the middle school that he expects to be a varsity starter as a freshman, then there's likely not a great advantage to that person playing JV as an 8th grader.
My whole point to that is that you should reach out to the HC in advance to understand if he has any interest in seeing 8th graders at the HS tryouts for a JV slot and, if he is, is he interested in YOUR 8th grader showing up.
As GodGiven mentioned, no need to get labeled as "that parent" early in his career. |
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wjeggert
29 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2015 : 15:00:08
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| As a father of a senior now... We had the same problem when he was an 8th grader... Mine played both. Very difficult, could not please either but travel coach was good and realized hs will be priority and allowed him to focus mainly on hs stuff and skills with travel...... If he has to pick one direct him towards the one team where he thinks he will have the most fun... Remember he is 13-14. Still plenty of time to refocus if it's not what he thinks it should be. My advice is hs ball is priority til the last game of hs season..... Then find the very best travel team that he will get a chance to play in front of colleges during the summer. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2015 : 10:17:57
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Itsgodgiven....my kid is in 7th grade, so this will come up next year.
How would a coach know to invite an 8th grader? We don't have a feeder program, and no middle school team. My son is on an academy year round travel ball team, but that has no affiliation with the High School. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2015 : 10:59:40
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
How would a coach know to invite an 8th grader? We don't have a feeder program, and no middle school team. My son is on an academy year round travel ball team, but that has no affiliation with the High School.
They may or may not, depending on how in touch they are with the travel community and their districted players.
All more to my point of you reaching out in advance to the coach to see if he even entertains 8th graders playing in his JV program. He simply may not and end your worries about it there. Or, he may allow him to come try out and see where he stands.
Unless you've already heard that he wants your son to come try out, you should contact him rather than show up unannounced. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2015 : 11:53:18
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| I never even considered having my son play HS ball as an 8th grader. Not sure why one would really want to, but to each his own I guess. I think in the know is right though. Some HS coaches keep an eye on kids who stand out who are districted to their school and some may not. If memory serves me, I think we had a parent meeting in the fall prior to the HS tryouts. I talked to the coach and mentioned who my son was. He responded "Oh, we know who he is". There was no middle school team and we had never done anything with the HS team before. But he knew my son. I was a little taken aback, but it showed that there are coaches who keep a pulse on the community. My opinion, unless asked to come join the tryout or it comes up with a coach somehow, sit back, enjoy your 14u season and be ready to impress during tryouts of freshman year. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2015 : 15:33:31
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bballman no idea if this whole playing 8th grade thing will even come up, but I like to have a plan before my kid develops one of his own. Now if he says "I heard 8th graders are allowed to play for the high school"...I will have a plan ;-)
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2015 : 18:36:18
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
bballman no idea if this whole playing 8th grade thing will even come up, but I like to have a plan before my kid develops one of his own. Now if he says "I heard 8th graders are allowed to play for the high school"...I will have a plan ;-)
I get that. Thinking about this topic for a little while now, I have this thought. High School ball is when things begin to be a business. It really becomes more about winning than development and having fun. Players and parents will have 4 years of that coming up. 14u - 8th grade - is really the last year for the real fun stuff. I'm not saying it can't be or isn't fun when you reach HS and beyond, but 8th grade is really the last year where it's all about having fun. Why not enjoy it? Use the time to get ready for HS and be prepared for tryouts, but have that last year of fun, relatively stress free baseball.
Maybe I'm wrong and others have a different perspective, but that's what I think. |
Edited by - bballman on 01/12/2015 21:02:27 |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2015 : 08:59:16
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I couldn't agree more with bballman. In fact, I made certain that my youngest stayed under the radar as long as possible (although the HS coach knew about him coming up) and did everything we could to avoid any of the summer/fall teams until he was a freshman.
It's a HUGE pita to try and appease the HS coach wants of summer, fall, etc., around a player's travel team. In the summer, if your son is a good player on a major team, he'll WANT to be with his travel team. Outside of the HS varsity team, all these other HS teams do is make life more difficult for the player.
Good luck. I know it's exciting as you ramp into your players HS career, but as bballman mentions, you have 4 years of it. Turning into 5 years isn't going to make a lick of difference for your boy come Jr., SR. year. |
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8th grade: JV or 13u travel?
