| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
pcc
28 Posts |
 Posted - 02/20/2009 : 11:57:38
|
I recently received this emai. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.........
The big barrel bat is designed for senior league play, which is typically 13-15 year olds. I did a little investigation and found that all the manufacturers ( Easton , DeMarini, Louisville , etc...) specifically advertised that these big barrel bats are not approved for younger youth league teams. This was reinforced more when I found out that most youth leagues (Cal Ripen, Little League, Pony, etc.,.) do not allow players to use the larger barrel bats. However, I did find it odd that the manufacturers are making -10 to -13 drop bats (the unit distinction between the length and the weight of the bat, such as 27 inches long and 17 ounces in weight). It's obvious that the sale of these ultra-light, big- barrel bats are targeted at youth league players.
Youth league (ages 6-12) aluminum bats are typically 2 ¹ inches in diameter at the sweet spot and usually have a -8 in drop. The idea is to work up as they get older and eventually get to the -3 drop bat that is required in high school.
The problem with using big barrel bats at such a young age is it doesn't reinforce hitting mechanics. When a young hitter swings and misses the sweet spot, this reinforces the fact they need to use their hands to hit instead of their arms. The sweet spot is located 4-7 inches from the barrel end of the bat, located between the bat's trademark and the end of the bat. With aluminum (or composite bats) when the player misses the sweet spot, the bat jars in their hands. With a wood bat (which I think all young players should spend time learning to hit with) if the sweet spot is missed, the ball won't travel very far, maybe a ground ball to second or short. Anyway, it reinforces the need to rotate the hips and use the hands to get the barrel of the bat on the ball. With much practice, a player can become good at making consistent contact on the sweet spot of the bat. Using the hands correctly will strengthen the hands as they get older and allow them to progress in their mechanics as a hitter. Many players struggle with hitting on high school freshman or JV teams because they drag the bat head with the -3 bats that are required by the National Federation Rules. They have been swinging the -8 and -5 bats with their arms and the -3 is even heavier for them to swing. They haven't developed good strong hands from hitting properly.
The problem with the big barrel bats is the extended hitting zones. The player can have a long swing (one that disconnects with the arms getting away from the body) hitting the ball on the area below the sweet spot near the trademark and still get a solid base hit into the outfield. This was what I witnessed that Saturday this fall during the eight year old coached-pitched game. Most of the hitters in the opposing team line up used more arms than hands to hit, but they still had solid shots into the outfield. In fact, the few times they did make solid contact, the ball was sent like a laser to the outfield fences. Several times our players got hit with the ball (one in the head on a line drive to center field) and the coach was also hit by a hot line drive back to the mound. It was a little scary and these young players were not ready to be swinging these bats.
During my research I also found hitting with big barrel bats was common practice for travel league teams during the summer and fall. Most travel tournament sponsors do not have regulations against using larger barrel bats for youth league ages. With the manufacture warnings clearly listed on these bats, this may be a serious spot for litigation. The travel tournament sponsors and teams that use these bats against the manufacture warnings are exposing themselves to potential lawsuits.
From a hitting stand point, players will never understand their hitting flaws. It's like the weekend golfer that uses a monster head driver, one that corrects the flight of the ball if the swing is not perfect. As long as you make contact anywhere on the face of the club, you're in good shape. (I got one in my golf bag) The same is true for the large barrel bats for youth leagues. See, hitting a baseball is difficult and one that comes with much failure. A good big league player that hits around .300 will fail 7 out of 10 times. With young hitters, the failure is what makes them better. Missing the sweet spot on the bat reinforces the idea to use your hands and get the barrel on the ball.
If you're serious about your young player being a better hitter make him use the 2 ¹ inch barrel in youth league. He can also work with a wood bat in practices and scrimmage games. (or summer league play). Use bamboo when they are young (ages 6-9), moving to maple by the time they are 11 or 12 years old. Both of these bats are extremely durable and hard to break. By the time they are 15-16 years old they can graduate to a nice Ash bat. Most big leaguers use either Ash or Maple. All of our high school players have a wood bat in their bag and train with it regularly.
Don't delay the development of your youth league hitter by allowing them to use a big barrel bat. Rotate your hips and use your hands to hit the SWEET SPOT. |
|
|
greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2009 : 14:50:36
|
That's all fine if you are going to require ALL players to not use them, but to say "Don't let your kid use a big barrel." while everyone else in the league is using them is somewhat irresponsible.
I don't disagree that training with a wooden bat (make sure the length and weight are comparable to what they will swing in a game) helps to develop them concentrate on hitting the ball more on the sweet spot, but so will hitting whiffle balls with a broomstick. The availability of a satisfactory wooden bat that has a similar weight as their metal bats has been the drawback to younger players using them. Only now at 13 has it become easier to get bats with a similar swingweight that actually hold up.
This message talks a lot about league ball, and if that is where you play, and a majority of players are using 2-1/4" bats, then by all means use one, but if you are playing travel ball and almost all players are using at least a 2-5/8" bat, I don't know how you handicap yourself by using a smaller barrel bat.
Remember, there will never be a time when they get older that barrel diameter will be restriction. If in HS, College, or the Pro's you were required to use a 2-1/4" bat, then the argument might hold some weight. It only goes to a weight restriction of -3, which are ALL big barrels. |
 |
|
|
10 BB
264 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2009 : 18:50:27
|
| Most of our team use's Combat 2-1/4 barrel, weight is distributed corectly not end heavy and they have lots of pop. The most important thing is bat speed so a thin bat causes less resistance therefore more bat speed. |
|
|
|
hendo678
1 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2009 : 21:25:42
|
| I completely agree with the post. I have a seven year old that used a drop 13 big barell for 2 seasons. After seeing him drop his shoulder, move his head and extend his arms way too early, I switched to a 2-1/4" barrel. He was an excellent hitter with the big barrel but when given a training stick (1" diameter) he couldn't hit a wiffle ball. It has taken 11 months and counting to "re-teach" the fundamentals. I strongly discourage the use of a big barrel youth bat. How about coaches start teaching fundamentals instead of relying on equipment to help their players perform. It is hard to do when so many players have the said advantage but by the time they are 11/12 the players with fundamentals will pull away from the others. |
|
|
|
SportsDad
293 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2009 : 00:03:16
|
| The most important thing is bat speed so a thin bat causes less resistance therefore more bat speed. LOL I agree that bat speed is most important, but the resistance agruement is kinda funny..1 oz of weight will effect bat speed more than any wind resistance... |
|
|
|
homerunking
110 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2009 : 07:48:10
|
| Not all big barrel bats are end loaded. You have 2 1/4 barrel bats that are also end loaded.. My son swings a green Catyalist and he loves it..It is 2 3/4 so his hitting area is larger than the smaller size.. He hits pretty well with it, but he is just about ready for the -5..which is a 2 5/8 barrel..It will be a balanced bat also.. |
|
|
|
bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2009 : 08:05:07
|
Ditto that. I bought my son a $300 Big barrel, and he wont put down his 2 1/4 Combat for even 1 at-bat to try "BIG ORANGE". Anyone want to buy a 29-19 Easton for $150? Only used by his teammates a few times.
quote:
Originally posted by 10 BB
Most of our team use's Combat 2-1/4 barrel, weight is distributed corectly not end heavy and they have lots of pop. The most important thing is bat speed so a thin bat causes less resistance therefore more bat speed.
|
|
|
|
Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2009 : 09:08:25
|
| Well said Lomax. While I don't know if I agree on the "irresponsibility" part, I agree in total with your statement. "Practice with Wood,Win with Metal"...was the phrase on this board written by the Diamond Starz instructor, that's what I have my son do. A wooden bat is less balanced and does not afford you the forgiveness of metal bat, even a 2 1/4 diameter bat. If you can swing wood effectively and with good bat speed, you should be ok. As far mechanics...you could take this argument a lot further than the bats, as far as coaching and teaching the correct methods that are in the best interest of the players. You could ask that all coaches be certified on baseball mechanics and coaching, even have mentoring programs for guys who want to coach...if you really want to do what is in the "best" interest of a serious player. I don't think that will ever happen and part of the "community" aspect of the game is giving back, which is why Dads coaching isn't all bad.(please no comments on daddy-ball) abd why travel ball affords so many kids the opportunity to find the right program for them. |
|
|
|
HIT15
5 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2009 : 21:23:53
|
| Why not use a big barrel? I mean, equipment changes over the years. If a kid has a good swing - he has a good swing, 2 1/4 or 2 3/4 makes no difference. Personally, when I play golf I like to use my new oversized driver with a bigger sweet spot, not my driver from 15 years ago. When I go fishing I like to use a fishing pole- not a stick with string on it. Just my opinion though! |
|
|
|
greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2009 : 10:07:44
|
The interesting thing is this conversation is talked about every year by parents in the 9U/10U range, but very very rarely by parents in the 12U and up group because at that age, it is just so rare that a player would consider using a 2-1/4" bat. The discussion turns then to weight drop. Using the lightest possible weight vs starting the transition path to -3 for HS (-8 to -5 to -3).
I would agree that my use of the word "Irresponsible" was a little strong for the conversation. Maybe I should have said "Not well thought out." |
Edited by - greglomax on 03/01/2009 13:54:01 |
|
|
|
longhorn1
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2009 : 13:02:00
|
Force = mass x acceleration (F=ma). Within a certain range the size and weight do not matter. A heavier bat you cannot swing quite as fast but weighs more (more mass). The reverse is true of a lighter bat, more bat speed less mass. The one constant the hitter (F) does not change regardless of what weight bat he swings. Wind resistance is a non-factor. The bat is round we are not swinging a flat bat / boat oar. They banned the flat bat about 120 years ago. As to the weight distribution, the further the weight is away from your hands the heavier it feels.
The end load, if a kid can swing it, does give more pop (that mass thing). Note a hammer has all the weight at the end-where impact is happening. It was a big enough advantage that USSSA was going to ban any end loaded bat from play a few years back in Mens Major softball. |
|
|
|
betterbball
33 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2009 : 23:12:37
|
| Longhorn1 I have learned something from you. Thanks for sharing! |
|
|
|
Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2009 : 12:48:27
|
| Duely noted Mr. Lomax, well put. Longhorns1, I love fizzics....j/k. |
Edited by - Critical Mass on 03/04/2009 19:06:57 |
|
|
|
longhorn1
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2009 : 09:39:40
|
| Sorry I a sick addiction with baseball. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Big Barrel Bats
