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wareagle
324 Posts |
 Posted - 09/18/2015 : 11:53:47
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I am trying to get an understanding of earned vs unearned run.
Lokking at a game on gamechanger.
Batter 1- reached on error
Batter 2- grounded out
Batter 3 - ROE
Batter 4- HR
Batter 5- Out
Game changer shows no earned runs. I thought the homerun would count as an earned run, and batters 1 & 3 would be unearned? |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2015 : 12:23:03
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No earned runs.
In order to determine earned vs. unearned runs, you must reconstruct the inning based on what would have happened if the errors had not occurred. In this case, prior to the HR batter coming to the plate, there would have been 3 outs. Anything that happens after that are considered unearned runs. Even if 5 more guys hit HRs after that, all would be unearned because none of them would have had a chance to bat had the errors not occurred.
Hope that helps clarify. |
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bfriendly
376 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2015 : 00:26:34
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
No earned runs.
In order to determine earned vs. unearned runs, you must reconstruct the inning based on what would have happened if the errors had not occurred. In this case, prior to the HR batter coming to the plate, there would have been 3 outs. Anything that happens after that are considered unearned runs. Even if 5 more guys hit HRs after that, all would be unearned because none of them would have had a chance to bat had the errors not occurred.
Hope that helps clarify.
I never heard that before......WOW and thank you! I always had the idea of base runners reaching on errors not being counted. But after three outs should have been attained, it makes sense to not count anything after that in the same inning as earned.
Yes, clarifies totally!! |
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SouthEast
3 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2015 : 08:01:19
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This is an interesting question. How many earned runs are allowed with these scenarios:
Batter 1 = out
Batter 2 = out
Batter 3 = single, advanced to 2B on an error (ground ball single goes under the left fielder's legs)
Batter 4 = HR
Batter 5 = out
Alternatively, let's say Batter 1-2 and 4-5 are the same as above, but Batter 3 = triple, scored on an error (an overthrow).
The tricky part is that some errors would not necessarily be outs even if the fielder did not make an error (like the examples with Batter 3 or with pickoff and stolen base attempts), and some errors would be outs if the fielder did not make an error (e.g., ground ball to SS and he throws it past 1B or dropped fly balls).
Does that mean that you have to wait until the inning is over before you can determine the number of earned runs? |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2015 : 11:17:40
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Basically, any runner that reaches 1B by error will be unearned if he eventually scores. Any other runners scoring after an error has occurred in an inning, the inning will have to be reconstructed to figure out what would have happened had that error not occurred. If the runner would have scored, regardless of the error, it is earned. If the runner would not have scored unless the error occurred, it would be unearned. Sometimes, this is very clear, sometimes it is in the scorer's judgement.
SouthEast, in your first scenario, both runs are earned. Batter 3 reached safely and the error allowing him to reach second had no impact on him scoring. With no error, he would have been safely on 1B and would have scored on the HR.
In the second scenario, if you are saying that Batter 3 hits a triple safely and there is an overthrow on that play that allows him to score, then Batter 4 hits a HR, that run is earned. The batter reached safely and regardless of the error allowing him to score, he would have scored on the HR, so both runs would be earned.
A scenario in which an error following a hit which allows a runner to advance one or more bases eventually making the run unearned may be the following.
Batter 1 = out
Batter 2 = single, advanced to 3B on an error by outfielder
Batter 3 = ground ball out to 2B that scores runner from 3rd
Batter 4 = strike out
This run would be unearned because if you reconstruct the inning, he would not have scored without the error, even though he reached safely. |
Edited by - bballman on 09/19/2015 13:06:52 |
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RoamingCF
77 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2015 : 11:39:26
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| @southeast, in both scenarios above, all runs are earned. The errors did not matter with respect to whether the runs scored (eventually). |
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SouthEast
3 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2015 : 18:30:32
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Thanks for the clarifications. That all makes sense.
I have a few other scenarios that I don't think are covered that involve wild pitches, passed balls, and errors by the pitcher.
Batter 1 = out
Batter 2 = out
Batter 3 = triple and score on a wild pitch
Batter 4 = out
Batter 1 = out
Batter 2 = out
Batter 3 = triple and score on a passed ball
Batter 4 = out
Batter 1 = out
Batter 2 = out
Batter 3 = batter reaches 1B on an error by the pitcher
Batter 4 = HR
Batter 5 = out
Do you know how many earned runs are allowed for each of those three scenarios? |
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RoamingCF
77 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2015 : 20:34:22
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quote:
Originally posted by SouthEast
Thanks for the clarifications. That all makes sense.
I have a few other scenarios that I don't think are covered that involve wild pitches, passed balls, and errors by the pitcher.
Batter 1 = out
Batter 2 = out
Batter 3 = triple and score on a wild pitch
Batter 4 = out
Batter 1 = out
Batter 2 = out
Batter 3 = triple and score on a passed ball
Batter 4 = out
Batter 1 = out
Batter 2 = out
Batter 3 = batter reaches 1B on an error by the pitcher
Batter 4 = HR
Batter 5 = out
Do you know how many earned runs are allowed for each of those three scenarios?
In scenarios above...
Wild pitches = earned runs.
Passed balls & errors = unearned runs (even if error was by pitcher)
Scenario 1 is only earned run. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2015 : 20:44:34
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Scenario 1 = 1 earned
Scenario 2 = 1 unearned
Scenario 3 = 2 unearned
Essentially, a passed ball is treated as an error like any other error. Except it it is not scored an error. A passed ball is scored in its own category. A wild pitch is on the pitcher when a ball is not put in play, so it doesn't affect unearned runs. An error by the pitcher in the field is the same as any other error by any other fielder. |
Edited by - bballman on 09/19/2015 22:06:40 |
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Earned run?
