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BamaDad
188 Posts |
 Posted - 11/30/2015 : 18:12:59
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quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
@CaCO - I (personally) think parents know what's best for their kids when they're younger so I eliminated the "I don't like their uniforms" or "that team name sucks" from the equation. :-) Also, your kid may have been more mature than mine at ten.
I needed to get him into a more competitive situation but it wasn't for my ego. In fact, he struggled at times because of focus but that was a good lesson for him. I have never been adverse to seeing him fail. It CAN build character if managed properly.
This^^^^^
I personally wanted my son to step up in competition. However, I wasn't going to force him to leave a team of his friends to do so. I posed the question to him and he chose to step up in competition. As you stated above, the new required level of focus and attention to detail was a bit overwhelming to him initially. However, he has pushed himself to meet the mental requirements of his chosen path as he already had the physical tools. I have even translated the lessons learned here to be applied to his educational challenges as well. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2015 : 09:08:16
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Update:
I signed my son up for a few CrossFit boot camps, and some weight lifting/muscle building clinics. Obviously I do not want him to fall too far behind the 8-ball. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2015 : 09:47:02
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
Update:
I signed my son up for a few CrossFit boot camps, and some weight lifting/muscle building clinics. Obviously I do not want him to fall too far behind the 8-ball.
Turn-two...a word of caution. There is a debate about this, but here are MY beliefs. Until a kid shaves he shouldn't be involved in weight lifting. He can use his own body weight against himself through various exercises, including resistance bands, but he should NOT be actually lifting weights over about 20#'s.
I have heard horror stories so I'm going with the safer than sorry approach. I've heard of a talented 16u pitcher who can't throw any more because when he was younger he lifted weights incorrectly repeatedly in an effort to get stronger and now his back is toast. I have heard of a high school football player that wanted to bulk up, what he did was affect his growth with the weight lifting, he is 5'8 while his 3 brothers and father are 5'11-6'3.
Perhaps if done in an extremely controlled environment with supervision it might be okay. However, it is much easier for my son to understand "you will NOT at any time lift a weight over 20#'s", than for him to understand, well under the correct supervision, and that doesn't include your friends, or a random adult that may or may not know what they are doing...etc. My son hit puberty and his common sense left him. He understands short simple phrases like, "NO, not EVER"..then again even those are sometimes confusing *rolling my eyes* |
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BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2015 : 10:29:24
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
Update:
I signed my son up for a few CrossFit boot camps, and some weight lifting/muscle building clinics. Obviously I do not want him to fall too far behind the 8-ball.
How old is your son? I'm not sure how early to start my son on a similar program and I worry about him gaining too much muscle too fast and losing flexibility in the process. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2015 : 11:42:52
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quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
Update:
I signed my son up for a few CrossFit boot camps, and some weight lifting/muscle building clinics. Obviously I do not want him to fall too far behind the 8-ball.
How old is your son? I'm not sure how early to start my son on a similar program and I worry about him gaining too much muscle too fast and losing flexibility in the process.
10, he'll be 11 in April. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2015 : 14:10:37
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
Update:
I signed my son up for a few CrossFit boot camps, and some weight lifting/muscle building clinics. Obviously I do not want him to fall too far behind the 8-ball.
How old is your son? I'm not sure how early to start my son on a similar program and I worry about him gaining too much muscle too fast and losing flexibility in the process.
10, he'll be 11 in April.
I hope you were being sarcastic then. That is way too young to be starting on weights... |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2015 : 14:23:13
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The American Academy of Pediatrics says its okay for preadolescent athletes over the age of 8 to do strength training if done with proper supervision. Their policy statement has some guidelines, so I'd look for a program that follows them:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/121/4/835 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2015 : 10:46:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
The American Academy of Pediatrics says its okay for preadolescent athletes over the age of 8 to do strength training if done with proper supervision. Their policy statement has some guidelines, so I'd look for a program that follows them:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/121/4/835
These are lines from the article:
"Strength-training programs may include the use of free weights, weight machines, elastic tubing, or an athlete's own body weight."
"In preadolescents, proper resistance training can enhance strength without concomitant muscle hypertrophy."
"Strength gains can be acquired through various types of strength-training methods and equipment; however, most strength-training machines and gymnasium equipment are designed for adult sizes and have weight increments that are too large for young children. Free weights require better balance control and technique but are small and portable, provide small weight increments, and can be used for strengthening sports-specific movements."
"Explosive and rapid lifting of weights during routine strength training is not recommended, because safe technique may be difficult to maintain and body tissues may be stressed too abruptly."
So, what I said above about " Until a kid shaves he shouldn't be involved in weight lifting. He can use his own body weight against himself through various exercises, including resistance bands, but he should NOT be actually lifting weights over about 20#'s."...kind of sounds the same to me.
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2015 : 12:07:00
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
The American Academy of Pediatrics says its okay for preadolescent athletes over the age of 8 to do strength training if done with proper supervision. Their policy statement has some guidelines, so I'd look for a program that follows them:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/121/4/835
These are lines from the article:
"Strength-training programs may include the use of free weights, weight machines, elastic tubing, or an athlete's own body weight."
"In preadolescents, proper resistance training can enhance strength without concomitant muscle hypertrophy."
"Strength gains can be acquired through various types of strength-training methods and equipment; however, most strength-training machines and gymnasium equipment are designed for adult sizes and have weight increments that are too large for young children. Free weights require better balance control and technique but are small and portable, provide small weight increments, and can be used for strengthening sports-specific movements."
"Explosive and rapid lifting of weights during routine strength training is not recommended, because safe technique may be difficult to maintain and body tissues may be stressed too abruptly."
So, what I said above about " Until a kid shaves he shouldn't be involved in weight lifting. He can use his own body weight against himself through various exercises, including resistance bands, but he should NOT be actually lifting weights over about 20#'s."...kind of sounds the same to me.
I wasn't arguing with you CaCo, just providing an interested parent with some information.
But, based on the AAP's guidelines, free weights as well as weight machines can be part of a strength training program if the program otherwise complies with the guidelines. No need to limit prepubescent athletes to their own bodies or bands unless you want to. I think the key is to find a program that follows these guidelines and teaches the boys to do it safely.
Here's a review study summing up the policy statements and research and includes a more thorough discussion of the guidelines to follow:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445252/
Note that not only the AAP, but also the American College of Sports Medicine and the American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine also agree that a well-supervised strength training program that follows the guidelines is "safe and beneficial" for children.
I noticed the other day that Rapid Performance says on its website that it trains athletes as young as 9, which seems pretty young to me. |
Edited by - Newbie BB Mom on 12/03/2015 13:20:06 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2015 : 14:09:14
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
I wasn't arguing with you CaCo, just providing an interested parent with some information.
But, based on the AAP's guidelines, free weights as well as weight machines can be part of a strength training program if the program otherwise complies with the guidelines. No need to limit prepubescent athletes to their own bodies or bands unless you want to. I think the key is to find a program that follows these guidelines and teaches the boys to do it safely.
Here's a review study summing up the policy statements and research and includes a more thorough discussion of the guidelines to follow:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445252/
Note that not only the AAP, but also the American College of Sports Medicine and the American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine also agree that a well-supervised strength training program that follows the guidelines is "safe and beneficial" for children.
I noticed the other day that Rapid Performance says on its website that it trains athletes as young as 9, which seems pretty young to me.
What is the advantage of a weight program for little boys? That's what I don't get. Yes, my boy might pitch slower than your boy but my boy is 6 inches and 40#'s lighter...kind of expected. However, when my boy and your boy are in the 10th grade they will be roughly the same size...so what is the up side of a weight program? I can see a ton of down sides if not done correctly, but the up side, I'm at a loss. |
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LFconcessions
29 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2015 : 15:19:13
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There is definitely an upside CaCO. Not all kids grow 12 inches when they are 12 like yours.
Mine started doing baseball specific strength training when he turned 13 - before shaving. When he first started we were told.... the workouts won't turn an average player into a superstar, but it will make your son a much better version of him. Even though he was usually the smallest on the field - I honestly believe the strength gains based on his workouts gave him the ability to compete, and succeed, with the bigger 'potential' kids.
My son now trains @ Rapid but I do not believe the younger kids do much, or as much, strength training as the older kids. |
Edited by - LFconcessions on 12/03/2015 15:20:30 |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2015 : 15:58:10
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| Forget the weights for the young boys. Have them go do some farm work like in the old days if you want to get more muscle. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2015 : 16:27:26
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Last year at 13 (early puberty), my son started lifting with supervision from trained professionals and it was a combination of weights, body weight and bands. He was 5'10ish/150 lbs at the time. He definitely got stronger but also gained flexibility because of the emphasis on stretching. He started again last week since football is over and will lift with his 8th grade football teammates twice a week starting in January.
My personal opinion is that I would not let my kid lift at 10/11 because the risk isn't worth the reward for me...but to each his own.
Strength and speed training are designed to enhance God-given abilities it will not work miracles. That why guys train to cut that 60 time from a 6.9 to 6.5 and still run at 6.9. Now, technique matters but it probably will only shave .01 maybe .02 (really bad technique) of second off the time.
In everything, I see kids who go through the motions and aren't fully invested in whatever it is they're doing. Again, I think the key is matching your son's desire, focus, etc with the right situation.
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2015 : 16:49:06
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quote:
Originally posted by LFconcessions
There is definitely an upside CaCO. Not all kids grow 12 inches when they are 12 like yours.
Mine started doing baseball specific strength training when he turned 13 - before shaving. When he first started we were told.... the workouts won't turn an average player into a superstar, but it will make your son a much better version of him. Even though he was usually the smallest on the field - I honestly believe the strength gains based on his workouts gave him the ability to compete, and succeed, with the bigger 'potential' kids.
My son now trains @ Rapid but I do not believe the younger kids do much, or as much, strength training as the older kids.
13u is particularly tough, I think, because the height and weight range is so enormous, basically teenagers and little boys playing on the same field. My son is on the smaller side right now, and hasn't shown any signs of puberty yet. He also hasn't done any strength training, but we're considering it, perhaps when he starts 8th grade next year. I'm interested in hearing what you think of Rapid for younger players. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2015 : 17:05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
Update:
I signed my son up for a few CrossFit boot camps, and some weight lifting/muscle building clinics. Obviously I do not want him to fall too far behind the 8-ball.
How old is your son? I'm not sure how early to start my son on a similar program and I worry about him gaining too much muscle too fast and losing flexibility in the process.
10, he'll be 11 in April.
I hope you were being sarcastic then. That is way too young to be starting on weights...
 It was a tongue-in-cheek comment I made over coffee-- which I even spewed as I was typing. No, my kid isn't "lifting", unless you consider firewood, raking leaves, shooting basketball, and running full-court (isn't that the 'season' we're in anyway?). |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2015 : 09:08:16
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I have to say turntwo, I'm glad to hear you were joking. Sadly, there are MANY parents out there who are not. That comment actually sparked the "Do you think your kid is falling behind" thread I started. I have been shocked at what I have seen and heard over the years of my son playing baseball. I know I am on here a lot and I like to stir stuff up but for the most part I let my kid go with his flow. I only step in when I see a health issue or something that gets him off his track of wanting to get better.
For example, a 5'10 160# 8th grader has no business in 13u swinging a drop 10. That's not safe for anyone involved and it doesn't help him grow his game, so I forced him to skip 13u. Could he have been a total stud at 13u, yeah, but being the best on the team isn't a good place to be for personal growth.
So many parents would have chosen the 13u option, the kid could play high majors, the kid could be a total stud...and I was like, so what? This "I want my kid to be a total stud" is the mentality of the parents that have their 10/11 year olds in strength training...they have to be the BEST, the STRONGEST, the STUD! Personally if my kid was small for his age I would focus on speed and agility training because that would be where he could help contribute to the team in the most significant way. Getting a tiny kid to bulk up will only slow him down which seems counter productive to the "make him into a stud" concept. |
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dad4kids
109 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2015 : 13:23:17
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Parents may want to consider that the benefits of weight lifting for kids playing baseball are disputed. The risk for damaging joints with free weight exercises is significant. And no pre-pubescent is going to "bulk up"; they simply don't have the testosterone for it.
There are plenty of ways for a kid to get stronger and more athletic for baseball with functional exercises, including pushups, medicine balls, lunges, battle ropes, box jumps, sprints, etc. Those exercies build functional strength, are less likely to injure joints, and have better application to baseball activities than free weights. |
Edited by - dad4kids on 12/04/2015 14:52:54 |
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LFconcessions
29 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2015 : 13:45:17
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quote:
Personally if my kid was small for his age I would focus on speed and agility training because that would be where he could help contribute to the team in the most significant way. Getting a tiny kid to bulk up will only slow him down which seems counter productive to the "make him into a stud" concept.
CaCO - in our situation we didn't view it that way.
We've found that baseball specific strength training does not bulk up a kid, as it focuses on increasing strength while maintaining flexibility. A by-product of our son training when he was younger is that he was pretty cut & lean, and stronger from the training while increasing his athleticism.
Our goal - and I think most everyone's - is to support their kid to be the best that they can be.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2015 : 15:21:00
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quote:
Originally posted by LFconcessions
quote:
Personally if my kid was small for his age I would focus on speed and agility training because that would be where he could help contribute to the team in the most significant way. Getting a tiny kid to bulk up will only slow him down which seems counter productive to the "make him into a stud" concept.
CaCO - in our situation we didn't view it that way.
We've found that baseball specific strength training does not bulk up a kid, as it focuses on increasing strength while maintaining flexibility. A by-product of our son training when he was younger is that he was pretty cut & lean, and stronger from the training while increasing his athleticism.
Our goal - and I think most everyone's - is to support their kid to be the best that they can be.
LFconcessions, did this baseball specific strength training involve weight lifting? Or was it more similar to dad4kids explanation of medicine balls, push ups, and speed drills?
Dad4kids, when you say "free weight exercises" what do you mean by that? Are you talking about bench presses or dumbbells? I have to say my kid enjoys his dumbbells! |
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LFconcessions
29 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2015 : 16:07:41
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CaCO - it was definitely strength training involving weight, but not the football like lifting that folks most think of. I agree with dad4kids - goal is to build functional strength that translates to the field.
When my son first started it involved Kaiser equipment and alot of Nautilus-like resistance machines that focused on high reps while also increasing weight for different muscle groups. Not free weights like many would think of. The sessions, and machines, worked his body from his neck down to his ankles & he was pretty whipped at the end of the workout.
Lots of different approaches at different places like Rapid Performance, Baseball Performance Center, GATA, & others that I'm probably leaving out too. Key is finding the right facility, with the right approach to best suit the goals for your son.
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Edited by - LFconcessions on 12/04/2015 16:59:58 |
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bfriendly
376 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2015 : 05:35:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Forget the weights for the young boys. Have them go do some farm work like in the old days if you want to get more muscle.
Thats what I'm talking about!!
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2015 : 12:58:46
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quote:
Originally posted by bfriendly
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Forget the weights for the young boys. Have them go do some farm work like in the old days if you want to get more muscle.
Thats what I'm talking about!!
Funny. My kid asked for an ax for Christmas so he could chop wood as part of his workout routine. He didn't get one. Knowing him, it would certainly hurt his 60 time. Harder to run with one leg . . . |
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Off-Season 'workouts'?
