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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
 Posted - 07/17/2009 : 10:26:36
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I thought that it might be fun to compare travel baseball of this year to years past and we might even go further back with some of the old timers such as myself.
What changes have we seen. How much has been positive changes and how much has been negative. Has the game stayed the same between the lines or has this constant shuffle to be the best changed the game itself.
Are teams built the same today as they were even 2-3 years ago. Has the boundaries changed and how has this affected the game. Was what was acceptable 2-3 years ago acceptable to us now.
Is there a right way and wrong way to build this elite travel team or should we all follow some guidelines and draw some lines that shouldn't be crossed and if we do draw this line we all realize that there will some zealot that will step across this line in order to win.
As we move forward I think that it is so important that we never forget that one of our jobs is to instill the tradition and history of baseball into these kids so that they might come to love the game for the game and not for some of the circus type things that has slipped into travel baseball.
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Edited by - baseballpapa on 07/17/2009 10:29:12 |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 13:15:44
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Any guidelines "set" would just be broken as soon as a coach realized he could improve his team or a dad realized that a "grass is greener" opportunity was right down the road.
Instilling the tradition and history of the game has been lapped by the preparing players for high school and the emphasis on winning at almost any cost.
All you can really do is set your own standards, live up to them, stay away from situations that don't meet them and maybe only play teams who share your values and approach the game the way you do.
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12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 15:08:18
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In the 12 and under I believe that 2008 kids want to play with the friends that they have been playing with for years rather than change teams, because the yearning to win a National Championship or a State Championship is less important to these kids.
Kids who voluntarily left my teams in the early part of the decade went to teams to get bigger and better hardware, or for more promised playing time, or because they felt that the other coach was the way to bigger and better ECB teams.
I believe that today a coach needs to find a core of 9U or 10U kids and ride them through 12U, dumping the dead weight each year, and recruiting the ones who can be of immediate help. I believe that by the time the 12U team takes the field that only 50-60% of the original team is in place, if you chose wisely. To me, that seems the only way to get kids. And I say that with some of the 12U & 13U teams that are in place. The ones you rank near the top started as young ones, and the core 6-7 stayed together, adding and dropping as needed...
JMHO after 15 years. Remember, in 1997 there were only a bakers dozen worth of 12U TRAVEL teams in Georgia. In 1999 only 4 teams played in the 10U AAU State tournament, by 2001 there were almost 30 teams playing in the USSSA or AAU State TOurnament (held the same weekend in Dublin, GA, ask someone about the disaster it was). |
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billbclk
164 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 16:38:44
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I started with 11U Travel in 2006 and cared a lot about points and trophies (only to ever get one 2nd place trophy the 1st year). Still even today younger age group parents and coaches seem to care a lot about winning "mythical state championships" and USSSA point. If you noticed the 14U group never had enough votes to matter on the rankings page. It's not that we cared less at 14U it's that we cared more about how we played instead of the result. Relax a little about the points and trophies, there is already enough pressure just trying to play well to justify the amount of time and money we spend playing. And no it’s not “just a game” anymore. Look in you child’s bat bag and check your bank account to see how much money you have spent on pitching/hitting lesson. We have created the “Beast” that is travel ball; it is what it is.
I haven’t seen any real changes over the years in the game but I have seen good players fall off and other players really pick it up and get better over time. Over the years as the field gets bigger and the bases move out you see a need for better fundamentals, both offensively and defensively. Big players hitting 210’ homeruns give way to line drives in the gap and the need to have a really sound outfield. You still have your power hitters but if need be you can pitch around them; unless you are playing the 14U ECB Astros (everybody is a power hitter).
Teams are always going to be built the same because we (managers) like what we like when it comes to picking players. Parent movement (notice I did not say player movement) dictates how some teams evolve. A know in the GGBL we are looking at ways to get back to “cluster only” teams. That’s going to be difficult because in Gwinnet County we can not deny a family from playing at a park of their choosing if they decide not to play at their local park. Also, sometimes coaches just flat out pick the wrong player/family for their type of team or parents pick the wrong team or coaching staff.
IMHO, there is only one way to build an Elite team and that’s over time. Imagine the self satisfaction of taking a 11U AA team and building them into a 14U Major team. Better yet, taking marginal players and making them better. The later occurred in my case.
So; of the 12 players from that 2006 11U team; 7 should make their HS baseball team and play, two are really good at football and one is really good at Lacrosse. The other two gave up baseball. I had to fight to get that team (ultimately playing out of our local park the first year) because they only wanted one team at that time.
I have made many friends over the years and unfortunately lost a few because of Travel Ball but realistically I would not change anything.
I would like to offer one suggestion to some parents; STOP talking about how good your son is, it really gets old and it puts undue pressure on little “Timmy” to perform. If he is good … we know already.
Bill Clark
Collins Hill
http://www.eteamz.com/BCcollinshilleagles/
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 21:28:03
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Nice response All Star and not much different than what I expected.
Now the major question becomes is what it is going to take for the different organizations to regain control of travel baseball and get the game back on the right track.
Do we feel that some rules could be added and enforced so that the playing field will become level again.
Some of the organizations have the rules but do not enforce them very well and some organizations need to add some things to their rules.
Lets hear it guys. |
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Reggie
70 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2009 : 07:24:52
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quote:
Originally posted by 12uCoach
In the 12 and under I believe that 2008 kids want to play with the friends that they have been playing with for years rather than change teams, because the yearning to win a National Championship or a State Championship is less important to these kids.
Kids who voluntarily left my teams in the early part of the decade went to teams to get bigger and better hardware, or for more promised playing time, or because they felt that the other coach was the way to bigger and better ECB teams.
I believe that today a coach needs to find a core of 9U or 10U kids and ride them through 12U, dumping the dead weight each year, and recruiting the ones who can be of immediate help. I believe that by the time the 12U team takes the field that only 50-60% of the original team is in place, if you chose wisely. To me, that seems the only way to get kids. And I say that with some of the 12U & 13U teams that are in place. The ones you rank near the top started as young ones, and the core 6-7 stayed together, adding and dropping as needed...
JMHO after 15 years. Remember, in 1997 there were only a bakers dozen worth of 12U TRAVEL teams in Georgia. In 1999 only 4 teams played in the 10U AAU State tournament, by 2001 there were almost 30 teams playing in the USSSA or AAU State TOurnament (held the same weekend in Dublin, GA, ask someone about the disaster it was).
12U is dead on with these statements but i dont think you have to get away from forming a team like you said about kids wanting to play with their friends and not caring about winning all these tournaments. If a coach puts a team together and kids improve but hvae fun from 9U to 12U or even 13U all these kids will be better and probably play longer and enjoy the game more. When it comes down to it really that is what is should be about. Wake up parents none of your kids are going to play for the braves and almost everyone of them wont even play D1 or minor league baseball. |
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12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2009 : 10:35:48
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sorry baseballpapa, I believe that you are way off. Organizations are not the answers, you are either trophy hunting, or played too much Little League. I'd look deeper at the reason you want to play travel ball. I would like to say that if you can't put a team together that is going to compete for a national championship, or at least a state championship, then win AABC or Dizzy Dean, or Babe Ruth, or Ripken, or PONY, or Little League. Even those organizations have out clauses for weekend travel ball.
There should be baseball for kids of all abilities, a 5 star player on an AAA is wrong, just as a 0 star player on a Major team because Daddy is the manager/coach.
It is the mindset of people who want to make travel ball just a big rec league that is the problem. I propose 1 big answer, that few are willing to accept: March through Memorial Day are for playing baseball. June is for winning state championships, and July is for winning National Championships. Stop the belief that winning in March is just as good as winning in May or June. TO ME, that is what is wrong with travel ball in Georgia.
Oh, and one other thing, USSSA, USTBA, Triple Crown and AAU need to talk to each other and schedule their State tournaments on 4 consecutive weeks so that those that go to Cooperstown can actually play in one or more of them, and none should ever be scheduled to end or start near Fathers Day for the 10U teams.
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2009 : 22:23:35
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12U Coach: I didn't say that the organizations held the answer, I only asked the question if this might be the answer to make travel ball better. I don't propose to know what is the best way to play travel ball is although I know that we purposely looked for what we felt was the strongest tournaments with the best teams as I feel that this is the way to challenge our team and to make us a better team. We don't now or have we ever chased trophies although you could fill a house with the trophies these 10 and 12 years old kids have won playing the best teams we could find within a reasonable area that made it financially feasible.
It sounds like you think you have all the answers so might you enlighten us all with the very best way possible to play travel baseball. Who in your opinion is playing travel baseball the way that it should be played. Is there an organization that is doing it better that any of the others or do you feel we should search the teams entered before we decide on which tournament to play in.
You stated earlier that you have taken a year off. Is is better or worse now than when you left.
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Whitlow
211 Posts |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 22:05:29
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Thanks Whitlow for this link. It is very informative and well written and I even recognized some of the folks quoted in the article. And they hit the nail on the head about the money end of it. Travel baseball is a big business and most such as myself will continue to support our teams as long as we feel that the kids are getting the opportunity to get better. We all know that very few will make it to the big leagues or even college baseball but even fewer would make it without the opportunity and skills developed playing travel baseball.
East Cobb is a great place to play but not because of the venue itself or even the reputation they have developed. It turns out to be the best place to play as this is where the best teams usually chooses to play.
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who
24 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 00:15:54
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| The original topic was 2009 Travel Ball vs. 2006 Travel Ball - I think it is "watered down" now compared to even just 1,2,3 yrs ago. By watered down ,I mean more kids of less caliber are playing travel ball. Baseball is so competitive in Ga, some parents feel they must be involved in travel ball so their child will further develope. While that is mostly true, some kids just plain do not have the passion, or capability, to compete at higher levels for much longer time periods. Right now, go over to the other forum and check out how many new teams are being formed at this moment for 2010. This simply means that travel ball is no longer for the top 10 % of the players, but now maybe top 30 % or so. Just because a player plays "travel ball" doesn't mean he automatically becomes a better player. This is the largest change I've seen. |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 08:52:44
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Who,
So where should the players that fall in the top 11% to 30% play? If a kid plays on an AA team, does that mean he is not good enough for travel ball? He is too good to enjoy rec ball, so where should he play?
-I agree that travel ball does not equal a major league career, but what is wrong with having some fun compatition?
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who
24 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 10:26:29
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Decatur Dad - Let me clarify and my apologies for not being 100 % clear. I agree with you, and have no issue with the "11 - 30%", or any number for that matter playing travel ball at any level they can or any team where they have a good fit. Good for them. Kids grow up way to fast, and I'm all for them enjoying their organized sport of choice regardless of their ability. I have kids in AA/AAA and that's where they should be. My point was simply this is a change I have noted over the last several years. What's driving that, I'm not sure and can only explain my family choice. What drove my first jump from rec / All-Stars to travel was an opportunity to align my son with several coaches that truly love, respect, and more importantly, can teach the game at a level I had not experienced before. I had coached rec league myself in past seasons, and did not know how much I did not know about the game. The jump was my son(s) choice and we've not looked back. During my sons last rec season, there were only 2-3 kids on the team he could even warm up with so that was no fun for him. He told me so. If your son is on a team with a good fit, great, if not, good luck finding one.
quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
Who,
So where should the players that fall in the top 11% to 30% play? If a kid plays on an AA team, does that mean he is not good enough for travel ball? He is too good to enjoy rec ball, so where should he play?
-I agree that travel ball does not equal a major league career, but what is wrong with having some fun compatition?
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 10:30:35
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DecaturDad, I wouldn't say that. With the way it is now, if you are willing to spend the time/money to play travel, do it. However, to Who's point, if the AA and lower end AAA teams stayed in rec, it would be more competitive. Several years ago, there was nothing wrong with staying in rec until you were 11 or 12 years old. There were just not many travel teams for kids younger, so rec was still an option for the more talented kids. I think that with all the 7, 8, 9, 10 yr. old teams out there now, rec has to be way watered down and maybe not worth playing. I don't know. Personally I think playing travel that early is not something that needs to happen.
Even at the older ages now, there is a huge difference between some of the teams that play. It used to be that if someone said they played on a travel team, you were pretty impressed. Now, if someone says that, I just wonder what level they play at. Not just what classification they are in, but what kind of competition do they play, what tournaments do they enter, etc. I am not nearly as impressed as I once was.
Used to be that if a kid played at ECB, it was a big deal. Now if someone plays there, I immediately question on which team. I think you can look at the ECB program as an example of the whole travel ball scene. Used to be the best played there and there were only a couple of teams per age group. Now you see 8-10 teams per age group and there is a massive gap in abilities between the top and bottom. Top teams always compete at a national level. Lower teams are really not much better than rec teams. Don't mean to offend anyone, but that is the way it is. I'm only talking about the difference in how it was and how it is now.
I think that is what Who is talking about with the watered down comment. |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 12:24:59
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| I agree that travel ball is "watered down" as far as the skills seen across all of the teams. My question is: Is that a bad thing? As travel ball has grown, has the added teams, and therefore added monies helped travel ball? |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 12:48:38
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| Most of the time its all about the dollar. Get as many young kids as they can to pay for the older kids. No one over there cares about what the kids do until they are 15 and up. I wish travel baseball didnt start until 12. Unfortunately all the decent players leave rec before that and its a joke. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 13:28:28
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I would say that depends on how important money is to you. If only the top players went to play travel starting at age 11 or 12, rec leagues would still be very competitive. Now, you are paying a pretty good penny to play a schedule not much better than rec if you are on a AA or low end AAA team. If things weren't so watered down, you could be paying a fraction of the cost to play in a competitive rec league.
My son is currently playing at 15u. I cannot tell you how many kids are not in the game anymore that were playing when he started playing travel in 2005. Tons of them. And that was when he was 11. There has to be a much higher percentage that drop out when they are starting at 7 or 8. It's just a lot of money to spend when chances are they will not play thru their senior year in HS. Many don't stick with it by the time they reach HS, and many more don't make it once they reach HS.
I know most parents think that their child has what is needed to make it that far, I did and still do. That is not the issue. As long as your kid has the dream, you should continue to pursue it. I'm just saying that rec leagues would not be any where as weak as they are if SO MANY kids did not go into travel at such an early age. |
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12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 14:43:15
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
12U Coach: I didn't say that the organizations held the answer, I only asked the question if this might be the answer to make travel ball better. I don't propose to know what is the best way to play travel ball is although I know that we purposely looked for what we felt was the strongest tournaments with the best teams as I feel that this is the way to challenge our team and to make us a better team. We don't now or have we ever chased trophies although you could fill a house with the trophies these 10 and 12 years old kids have won playing the best teams we could find within a reasonable area that made it financially feasible.
It sounds like you think you have all the answers so might you enlighten us all with the very best way possible to play travel baseball. Who in your opinion is playing travel baseball the way that it should be played. Is there an organization that is doing it better that any of the others or do you feel we should search the teams entered before we decide on which tournament to play in.
You stated earlier that you have taken a year off. Is is better or worse now than when you left.
1. Being able to take a step back this year, I found that the enthusiasm of the 10's parents is throttled back year after year until Travel Ball is almost a chore. I now understand why after a travel filled year at 12 in 2007, a few parents dialed it way back for little travel in 2008. Enjoy your childern as children, let it always be a game never a chore.
2. There is no longer a difference between "Tournament Teams" and "Travel Teams". I continue to question Tournament teams who do not play pick-up games during the week or every few weekends. When do the kids get to play a 2nd position (pitcher is not a second position in travel ball, it is 1a)? How do you work on in-game issues? Isn't it nice to have 1 Saturday or Sunday off every 3-4 weeks?
3. Every Manager/Head Coach/Grand Poo-Bah of the team needs to ask one question "What is the purpose of the team I have put together?" Use your management skills and start a goals tree. Start with what is important, I always use Win a National Championship. Then I can plan my way to that goal. To my way of thinking, playing 70 games and doing well in Cooperstown is not the reason to put together a 12U team. I do think ending at Cooperstown is a good thing for 10U kids, it keeps them wanting more.
4. Know your team, and end the season with a tournament you can win. Ask around to find out where people went and how they liked it, or didn't like it. Sometimes you can't control who shows up at your tournament.
4a. Once you pick a tournament, then play tournaments and games during the spring to prepare you for them. Doing NABF? Take a trip or 2 to Memphis (Southaven or First Tennessee Fields), Doing AAU? Take a trip or 2 to Florida. Look at who played last year, play those kinds of teams.
5. It is OK to play in any of the Rec Leagues. They have rules now that allow travel teams. Wouldn't it be great to play the Atlanta NIT and the PONY world series the same year? To DecaturDad, if you are AA, travel on the weekend, play league ball during the week and go bring back a Dizzy Dean or Little League title to Georgia.
6. Stop badgering teams about where they decide to play each week. Too many people on this site question why a team is not playing in specific tournaments. You know what "IT DOES NOT MATTER." I'll never take a team Battle in the South, they ticked me off one year, I'm not going back. I'm only going to play Super NIT to play out of town teams, if we all just played in Triple Crown, I may go to Auburn the next week to play only Alabama teams.
6a. Stop looking at teams to be #1 or #25 week in and week out. The Spring is for learning the game, learning to play and learning to win. Improving week to week should be what you look for, too many teams flame out in late May and get beat by ones you don't expect, the ones who have learned to play the game. This goes back to item 2, what happens if your pitchers are sick/injured, or your 2nd baseman, do you have a backup?
7. I've said it before, I'll say it again, the leaders of the AAU, USSSA, USTBA and Triple Crown need to plan the State Tournaments so that people can play in 2 of them and still go to Cooperstown in June. State champions need to honored once again, not just treated like another tournament. Bragging that you won the Atlanta NIT is OK, but the team that won the State Championship should trump you, because it is later in the year.
8. Yes, for 8U - 12U any where you play is fine as long as your kid believes in the coach. Adding a location to the name does not make it better or worse, adding a coaches name does.
In a nut shell baseballpapa, teach baseball in the Spring, do what is right for your players and parents and bring home a big trophy in June or July.
That is how I view it all. |
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12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 14:48:18
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quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
I agree that travel ball is "watered down" as far as the skills seen across all of the teams. My question is: Is that a bad thing? As travel ball has grown, has the added teams, and therefore added monies helped travel ball?
To follow up my diatribe, yes it is a bad thing. If the teams at East Cobb were to band together and follow the rules one of them could bring home a trophy from PONY or Dizzy Dean. Stan will tell you that back in the day NorthWest was a league, just like any other and tried to send their teams to national tournaments. I would love to see NorthWest go back to that.
Second, too many teams leave 1 stud and 8 dwarfs on some teams and 1 dud and 8 players on other teams because Daddy can't give up coaching the stud, or he wants to make sure the dud plays. We can all point to a number of these teams... |
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bambino_dad
119 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 20:53:58
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It's a numbers game.
I strongly disagree with anyone who says that travel ball has been "watered down" in a real numbers sense. If in 2006, only 10% of the youth athletics population participated in travel ball, that left 90% playing rec only ball where instruction, coaching, extra hitting, and specialized training were not at all a consideration for success in the sport.
But if in 2009, 30% of all youth athletics population plays travel ball where the specialized training, extra instruction in hitting and pitching, and coaching are a given - regardless of outcomes - the aggregate of the youth population playing travel ball will be of a better quality than otherwise. That's obvious. Quality doesn't always follow the money, but it tends to. Batting cages, pitching lessons = specialized instruction. And it all costs time and money. Your kid may not be able to make the elite top three teams in the park at his 9-13yr old snapshot in time, but he will be farther along than if he'd played rec at Rehoboth Baptist or Deer Park Rec where none of that is offered.
Now, the 10% figure thrown out there will be at the very end of the bell curve - that's where talent, skill, ability, desire, and even physical growth come in. Not much in quality will change from the 2006 top 10% of travel ball players to the 2009 top 10%. 12 year olds will not suddenly begin to throw in the 80s no matter how much instruction and training they're given. That is to say, even the highest quality level of play will be limited by human ability. So then, the so-called watered down play is an illusion. The 2/3rds of the 30% that participate will never be as good as the 10% at the top of the travel ball curve. But they're better than they would have been had they not played.
Case in point. Notice how even the top teams on TBS and other sites are competing against each other from the same limited pool of talent (maybe 1-2%)?? from the 10% that's already playing top caliber ball. But you can't say the 10% doesn't benefit from the high caliber play of the 2%. Even though TABU, Lamorinda, Norwalk, Simi Valley, Team Easton, and the Chiefs are playing musical chairs with the same 15-20 players, the Mississippi Royals, Va Storm, Macomb Mudhens, and N.O. Monarchs etc., etc., etc., all benefit from the competition.
Simply put, you get out of a sport what you put into it - and money has been poured into travel ball. The 20% who are the so-called "watered down" of the travel ball teams indeed - can and do - benefit from specialized instruction, better coaching, and interactive tournament play with and among the elite travel teams than they would have benefitted if they had not played travel ball at all.
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Edited by - bambino_dad on 07/20/2009 21:11:27 |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 23:39:58
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Wow, Papa started a bee's nest with this one didn't he. Did anyone read the 643 posting stating that they were expecting over 75 kids at their 11U tryout.
One really good point was the extra instruction being offered through private lessons with really qualified instructors that should increase the level of skills somewhat.
I still don't really understand what 12U Coach is advocating as I feel that most teams are doing something close to his agenda now. I know we work hard to get better in the Spring, always play in a couple or three Super NIT's and then end up with a World Series at the end of the year. Of course and I think 12U Coach agrees with our choice to play the 10U in Cooperstown that took the place of the World Series run this 10 year old season. We would have loved to have tried to end with a World Series title but finances did not work out for us this year as Cooperstown is so expensive.
I would also agree that the Little League and Dizzy Dean reference would be a great idea but I believe that you cannot play travel baseball and then play in the Little League or Dizzy Dean tournaments as Dizzy Dean and Little League will not allow it. Am I right or do the travel teams just make a choice not play these venues.
We played in multiple tournaments hosted by all the groups such as USSSA, USTBA, Triple Crown, BPA, and independent. Is this a good idea or do some feel you should focus on one group. Advantage in playing just one of course is points or rankings but disadvantage is that you might end up playing the same group of teams. In our way we got to enjoy a much more diverse group of teams but didn't have much to offer in the way of points which affected our seeding when we chose to play in USSSA.
I like to think that you should keep any team challenged and playing teams of equal or even greater ability so that they can be pushed to get better.
Great advice so far guys and keep it coming. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 09:11:34
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Regarding LL, Dizzy Dean, Dixie Youth and travel ball:
I've been involved on the board of a Gwinnett County park for a couple of years. We were part of the Dixie Youth oranization. Dixie Youth DOES allow dual participation as long as it does not interfere or disrupt the regular season schedules. The players must stop the dual participation DURING all Dixie Youth end of season tournaments. They can play travel up to and after these tournaments but not during them. I can't speak for LL or Dizzy Dean though. The biggest challenge to doing this is the scheduling. Our park has a lot of teams and every team is normally scheduled for 2 games per week - one on a weekday night and one on Saturday. Since travel tournaments are held on weekends, this makes it difficult to play in travel tournaments.
Regarding the watering down of travel ball:
Bambino_Dad makes the point that even if the "less talented" kids play travel, they still learn a lot more than they would if they had played Rec ball. I think this is absolutely true. This past season, our park approved a 2nd 9u team that was perceived by some as a waste of time because "they didn't have the talent to compete" at a certain level. This team struggled initially but eventually ended up qualifying for a USSSA state tournament. Not a huge accomplishment as measured by some, but a huge accomplishment for this team. Some folks at the park still view the team as unsuccessful. I guarantee that the kids and parents on this team don't view themselves as unsuccessful. Every kid on this team thoroughly enjoyed their season. Every kid learned 100 times what they would have had they played in Rec. |
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12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 09:39:22
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Yes, 10's stopping at Cooperstown is not a bad idea. Did it twice, and will most likely do it again in 2011 with a third team.
You make my point for me on the season. You can sit down right now, and unless the weekend dates change, you know your schedule for next year: Forsyth Rain Fest in the Beginning of March, Whatever replaced Border Wars, ATL Super NIT end of March, Triple Crown Back to School, Whatever people do since Matt destroyed the Directors Cup, Battle In the South, Triple Crown, and then Memorial Day weekend or State Tournaments.
To what ends do playing the "circuit" do for you and your team? All I am advocating is to have an individual program that suits your needs and don't follow the pack. Unlike Willie Sutton (who robbed banks because that;s where the money is), going to a tournament "because that's where the best teams are" and seeing the same hitters and pitchers is no better or worse than playing in a league (a very expensive league). Find more teams to play by going off the beaten path. Travel, if funds allow, don't just stay in the area.
The second part of my diatribes if for the teams that there are too many AAA teams that, if combined, would make some fine Major teams.
You can play travel ball and Dizzy Dean or Little League. The Columbus team did it right, Tamiami did it wrong. During the week you play in the league, on the weekend 12 kids go play travel ball. East Marietta Little league tried it last year, and on the Georgia Varsity Sports Vent there is a thread ( http://forums.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=37&f=2710&t=4477752 ) already complaining about Travel Teams in Dizzy Dean. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 10:09:58
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We played in multiple tournaments hosted by all the groups such as Papa wrote - USSSA, USTBA, Triple Crown, BPA, and independent. Is this a good idea or do some feel you should focus on one group. Advantage in playing just one of course is points or rankings but disadvantage is that you might end up playing the same group of teams. In our way we got to enjoy a much more diverse group of teams but didn't have much to offer in the way of points which affected our seeding when we chose to play in USSSA
Papa - Heck yes...you play in everything and anything that gets your kids experience against the strongest competition around. I'm not into point totals for tournament wins and specific sanctioning bodies whom are all in it for the money. We do travel ball to play the best and get better against the best ! I could care less what the team is ranked going into the year, middle of the year or end of the year. I venture to say that if we adults did not discuss this around our ball players, they would have no idea what the sanctioning bodies are or whom was ranked what !
As for what's changed from 2006-2009, I don't think much. Adults still seem motivated for the wrong reasons and kids just keep putting smiles and smiles on my face as I watch them perform their magic out there on the diamond. If it weren't for that, I'd just as soon go do my "honey do" list which has been building up since our travel ball days began !!!! |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 11:27:08
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gas, I beg to differ, it is a lot different. Way more teams, a much more diverse talent spread of players. No way you can argue with that.
I have heard several people state that the instruction and practice were much better with the travel teams. My point in my last post was that if everyone didn't leave their local rec program, the rec programs would be much stronger than they are today. Well, I would say the same thing about the coaches. Most travel teams are coached by Dads. The same Dads that were previously coaching their sons in rec ball. If the kids stayed, the Dads would stay and the quality of coaching would be the same. This holds true especially at the lower levels. Chances are pretty high that you are not going to have a paid or volunteer non-Dad coaching a AA team. The paid/volunteer non-Dad coaches will be coaching the higher end teams with the kids who would be and should be playing travel anyway.
I still say that the difference from several years ago is that there are way more teams and a much bigger spread in talent level. BTW it's not always fun for a team with a lower level of talent go against major teams and get blown out all the time. Usually, those teams find tournaments with like level talent in them so they have a chance to compete. If kids stayed in rec longer, I still say that the rec programs would be competitive enough for most kids. |
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who
24 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 17:31:46
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bballman - Maybe my "watered down" implication was taken negatively to some, so thanks for your better description...... "way more teams, a much more diverse talent spread of players. No way you can argue with that." I think you and I have the same point... Again, it's not a negative it's just a 2009 vs. 2006 comparison. If someone moved from Ga to South Dakota in 2006, and came back in 2009, it would not be unreasonable for them to make that observation.
Let me toss out another reason I think there are many more travel teams now at the younger ages, specifically 12U. In an earlier post, I suggested readers go look at the number of new teams on the other forum. Well, go take a look at specifically the "12U Team openings and tryouts". Check out how many tout a selling point of their team being "Cooperstown Bound" or something equivalent. I'm suggesting there could be teams formed with a short term goal to take 3-4 coaches sons and a number of their baseball family friends to Cooperstown however several years ago, many of those same caliber players may not have been considered "travel ball players". Similarly, the coaches would not have been considered "travel ball coaches". So, is that negative ? Well, not really in the sense that those players, regardless of their ability, and their coaches, regardless of their abilities, can plan a nice trip for their team to go to Cooperstown, and this would certainly be a highlight of their season and possibly career. As further evidence, go look at the number of 11U teams listed on the NWBA for 2009 and compare that to the number of 12U teams. There are roughly 50 % more of the 12U teams and I'm just suggesting this may not be a coincidence that this is the primary age kids go to Cooperstown. |
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2009 Travel Baseball vs. 2006 Travel Baseball
