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 State Championships...HIgh School
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baldy87

118 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2017 :  08:11:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The 35 second clip of the call in question can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHGLbJpoFlA


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CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2017 :  09:01:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
1. The Rome Stadium holds 5K and both high schools are being warned to purchase their tickets ahead of time. Pretty sure it will be more than the parents there.

2. Playoff pitching rules are different than normal pitching rules. I don't agree that they should be different, but they are. Pitcher A could pitch 100 pitches on Wednesday night and come back and pitch 20 more on Thursday night. 120 pitches is the magic number in playoffs, anyway you slice it. Personally I'm happy there is a firm number. Watched a game this weekend that the final score was 0-22 and each of those pitchers on the zero side only had 1 inning of play counted against their pitching total...now THAT is not right.

3. Video evidence is not submittable in high school baseball. If it was the games would be REALLY long while they went to the tape. They can't open that can of worms.
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baldy87

118 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2017 :  10:41:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree on point 1. Particularly for the Etowah vs. Woodstock game. I think it'll be a good crowd, and having the game at either Etowah or Woodstock would be a complete train wreck. Neither facility could come close to handling the crowd.

You've just proved my point with points 2 and 3 though, so thank you. If GHSA is interested in protecting young kids' arms - what's the health benefit of allowing them to throw 60 pitches today and 60 more tomorrow? The bottom line is - no one in any position of authority (GHSA or coaches) is really all THAT interested in saving young pitchers' arms. They're interested in winning - whatever the cost. Parents beware.

No one is asking for in-game instant replay reviews. But in protest situations like this one - video evidence is the MOST credible - not my word or John's Creek's word - and certainly not the word of anyone in Lee County - so let's NOT use it? Balls and strikes - I get it. Bang-bang plays, I get it. But this is stupidity run amuck. This call is completely FIXABLE. The game ENDED with that play. It should be 1 game to 1 - play the third game. And the REASON they won't look at video is because in many cases (like this one) it proves, beyond any shadow of a doubt, JUST HOW INCOMPETENT THE UMPS ARE. And I pray that they're ONLY incompetent and not deviously part of a colluded plan to get Lee County to the championship............because that's sure what it looks like to me. And to be clear - I don't live anywhere near John's Creek or Lee County. I'm just tired of seeing incompetence and potentially corruption go unchallenged. Everyone works too hard for the games not to be on the up-and-up.

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CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2017 :  11:20:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At least GHSA came up with something. How many stories did we hear last year about throwing 150+ in a game? Or pitching that much on back to back days? GHSA finally put a rule in place, it's not perfect, but at least it is a rule.

The ruling on video has to be across the board, think about it. Appeals, protests....they could all turn mid game as well. Some coach/school will say Johnny was safe at first, the umps disagree, they demand to go to the tape they had on 1st, ump says no, then there is a lawsuit on the precedent that the tape was reviewed during the appeal/protest process and they want it done right then and the umpires said no....etc.

Sometimes umps screw up.....in other news, water is wet.
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bballman

1431 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2017 :  11:58:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lee County... I have my doubts about them too. That coach has been there for like 35 years and I think he owns the umps down there. Haha. About 7 years ago, my son was pitching against them down there. Had a shut out going through like 5 innings. Their coach went ballistic about some call against them. I was REALLY surprised he didn't get booted. Next thing you know, nothing but a fastball right down the middle was a strike. All of a sudden, Lee County is back in the game... Every one of us knew something funky was going on.
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BREAMKING

323 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2017 :  15:04:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I liked it better being at the school. I think more students would come out and gone are the days of letting out class early and everybody going to the baseball field to cheer on the boys. I could see it maybe if games were at suntrust park. You would be surprised at how many can pack around a baseball field.
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turntwo

948 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2017 :  15:51:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl


3. Video evidence is not submittable in high school baseball. If it was the games would be REALLY long while they went to the tape. They can't open that can of worms.



Ruling was overturned. Game 3 to be played...
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baldy87

118 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2017 :  07:51:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo

quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl


3. Video evidence is not submittable in high school baseball. If it was the games would be REALLY long while they went to the tape. They can't open that can of worms.



Ruling was overturned. Game 3 to be played...

Awesome news! My faith in humanity is restored. In other news - water isn't as wet as once thought..... :)
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CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2017 :  08:36:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BREAMKING

I liked it better being at the school. I think more students would come out and gone are the days of letting out class early and everybody going to the baseball field to cheer on the boys. I could see it maybe if games were at suntrust park. You would be surprised at how many can pack around a baseball field.



Neither Woodstock or Etowah have actual bathrooms. I'm thinking the "fans" will be happier to see the double header in Rome ;-)
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CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2017 :  11:45:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by baldy87

quote:
Originally posted by turntwo

quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl


3. Video evidence is not submittable in high school baseball. If it was the games would be REALLY long while they went to the tape. They can't open that can of worms.



Ruling was overturned. Game 3 to be played...

Awesome news! My faith in humanity is restored. In other news - water isn't as wet as once thought..... :)



I think it's safe to say Umpires will continue to make errors in pretty much every game, thus making water wet again!
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oneZone

108 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2017 :  11:53:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl



Sometimes umps screw up.....in other news, water is wet.



Yes, sometimes umps screw up. And there's usually not much you can do about it. But why wouldn't everyone want to get it right -- as finally happened in this case -- whenever it is actually possible to fix a screw-up?

I have a hard time believing you would maintain this "oh well, umps screw up" attitude if it were your team getting the raw deal.



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in_the_know

985 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2017 :  14:52:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by oneZone

quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl



Sometimes umps screw up.....in other news, water is wet.



Yes, sometimes umps screw up. And there's usually not much you can do about it. But why wouldn't everyone want to get it right -- as finally happened in this case -- whenever it is actually possible to fix a screw-up?

I have a hard time believing you would maintain this "oh well, umps screw up" attitude if it were your team getting the raw deal.







Everyone's assuming the umps screwed up. The video is in no way conclusive that the runner touched third. It simply isn't clear. He's in the neighborhood, but you can't say there is video evidence that he touched the base.

As for the ruling, it's actually sad that GHSA completely ignored their protocol and procedure and overturned this. Even if the video evidence had been crystal clear. The rules are that it is a judgement call and that video is never allowed to be submitted in the case of a judgement call. The rule requires all runners to touch the base in this scenario (NFHS/Fed rules which GHSA follow, not MLB which only require batter runner and scoring runner to touch base).

So the executive board took it upon themselves to ignore their own rules and overturn a judgement call a week after the fact. Furthermore, one of the key members was quoted saying that this call was more important because it ended the game than had it occurred earlier in the game because a team has time to overcome it if it happens earlier. Seriously!?! Both teams had all 6 innings prior to put runs up. This a blatantly ridiculous statement and the fact that he admits that his opinion was swayed by the time of the call is ludicrous. It says that they really didn't have any desire to get the call right as much as they were pressured, panicked, and stressed by the situation. This is exactly why the rules are defined in advance and under no duress, so that they can simply be followed during times of duress.

I get that in your opinion a wrong has been righted (which in my opinion isn't as clear cut as you seem to be convinced), but at a significant cost with regard to the integrity of the rules and game.
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bama21

278 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2017 :  06:57:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rules or no rules, common sense has to prevail. The bases were loaded, the batter clearly took ball 4, runner on 3rd scores, GAME OVER.

As far as the video, I agree, not conclusive. However, watch the 3rd base umpire, he is turning away from the base at the same time the runner is reaching it. Also, the 3rd baseman is getting to the bag at about the same time as the runner.

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in_the_know

985 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2017 :  09:54:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bama21

Rules or no rules, common sense has to prevail.





This is where you take any argument you have and lose all credibility. How about a balk during rain where the pitcher slips on the rubber and falls without delivering the pitch. Runner on third scores to end the game. Common sense says that it isn't a balk. There was no intent to deceive, however the RULE states otherwise.

If you don't like the rules, lobby to change them, but they are there for a reason and until changed, governing boards cannot simply choose which and when to apply them or not. They even said that they would not have likely ruled to overturn if the same violation had occurred in the second inning. So is common sense and application of rules dependent on the time in a game when a violation occurs?

What the board should have done is upheld the judgement call on the field as their rules dictate, then changed that rule during the off season to reflect the MLB rule where only the batter runner and scoring runner must touch. But to be honest, if bases are loaded and ball four is issued, having either or both of those runners touch doesn't make much common sense either. For all practical purposes, the game should be over, but there is a rule in place that require it done, so until that time, it must be done, by the rule, and not dictate by common sense until both of those reflect the same.

I'm sure this is going to create a storm of back and forth, so I'll bow out of it. Nothing anyone states will change my opinion that the rules should be followed, and subsequently changed if found to be bad, but until that time, the rule is the rule. Likewise, nothing I say will change your mind, so I'll simply agree to disagree and move on.
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CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2017 :  10:09:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
in_the_know, you are right. There is no proof the umps actually did screw up in this case. This rule is also obscure, which is what has most people in an uproar. How many times have you heard of this rule being applied before?
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bama21

278 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2017 :  11:53:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well to be honest, I've never really cared a whole lot for umpires, so maybe my opinion is somewhat flawed.

The 3rd base ump was definitely turning away from the play, did he see it, did he not, no proof either way.

One thing is for sure, if it was an honest judgement call (no home field advantage), he will sleep better now knowing that it was taken out of his hands.
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baseballready

186 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2017 :  13:28:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And now game 3 rained out until Friday at 1:00. 6-A Championship Series has been pushed to next week.
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oneZone

108 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2017 :  13:31:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The umps broke out their cell phones during the game and had lengthy conversations with GHSA members before making the call to disallow the run. That is a violation of the officiating handbook. They were sanctioned for it and will not be allowed to umpire any remaining state playoff/championship games. So, the umps actually did screw up in this case.

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jakesdad

118 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2017 :  01:40:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Etowah wins both games. The second in 11 innings. Woodstock goes up one in top of 11 and Waters just misses walk off 2 run HR, but settles for a run scoring triple. Walk bases loaded. Woodstock spikes a throw to first w two out and winning run scores. Crazy game.
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CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2017 :  08:30:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Etowah wins 7A after sweeping Woodstock. The second game went to 12 innings...gesh! Both teams had outstanding finishes! Congrats!
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BREAMKING

323 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2017 :  09:57:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congrats to Etowah. Will Pope ever play man that is a long time between games. Gonna be tough to stay sharp.
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brball

614 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2017 :  23:15:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congrats to Etowah on the SHIP and Woodstock for one helluva run!

Congrats to Loganville on the 5A SHIP over Wayne County!

Blessed Trinity should win 4A, but split with Marist... Who will win?

Pope will play this year, I think?

Hmmm....

Edited by - brball on 05/25/2017 23:19:55
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bballguy15

63 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2017 :  10:26:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In regards to Johns Creek, what I heard from someone that was in the hearings was that the reason that the call was overturned was because of conflicting statements form the umpires.

Apparently the 3rd base umpire stated that the runner never made an attempt to get to third base and that he cut in front of the third baseman to celebrate with is teammates. The reason that the video was allowed was to corroborate the statements of the umpires. Based on the video, it clearly shows that the runner at least ran to the area of the base (whether he actually touched it remains to be seen). Because the umpires statement was them deemed to be wrong the call was overturned as their was no evidence to support that the runner did not touch third base.

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brball

614 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2017 :  21:24:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by brball

Congrats to Etowah on the SHIP and Woodstock for one helluva run!

Congrats to Loganville on the 5A SHIP over Wayne County!

Blessed Trinity should win 4A, but split with Marist... Who will win?

Pope will play this year, I think?

Hmmm....



Congrats to Marist and Pope!
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baseballready

186 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2017 :  11:57:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by baseballready

And now game 3 rained out until Friday at 1:00. 6-A Championship Series has been pushed to next week.


Game 3 was reported as "rained out", however, Lee County had no problem practicing on the field both Wednesday and Thursday.
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