| Author |
 Topic  |
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
 Posted - 04/25/2018 : 07:07:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
The bottom line is: You have to be seen. The bar is rising, the kids are getting better and better, what used to be a really good fastball is now just average.
If you go to the bigger PG events, you will see what games most of the scouts are watching, it will be the bigger organizations with the rosters loaded with talent. Sure, a few scouts will be watching the other teams, but when the big boys play, the scouts show up.
While there are exceptions to every rule as far as getting a D1 scholarship, most will come from the big name programs and you can see this on PG's website. So, if you don't play on one of these teams, then I would argue you need to go to a PG showcase. If you put up the numbers, you will get noticed. The other option is college camps, I know of and have seen kids get offered from camps and then there are others that say it is a money grab.
Again, the main thing is to get seen.
I'd like to point out that it IS possible to be seen because you are playing one of these big boy teams. Last year my son was guest pitching and they threw him up against a super duper team. Coaches were there to watch those kids, but as my son sat them down one by one the coaches came over and asked who was pitching. The way PG tourneys are set up, you will always play one of these super duper teams.
Also, the camp rules have changed. No 9th or 10th graders allowed on campus, officially or unofficially, and no offers being given at camps until junior year.
"Additionally, athletics departments can’t participate in a recruit’s unofficial visit until Sept. 1 of the recruit’s junior year in high school, and recruiting conversations during a school’s camp or clinic can’t happen before Sept. 1 of the junior year. "
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-i-council-adopts-recruiting-legislation |
 |
|
|
bkball
173 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2018 : 10:09:45
|
From what I have seen Grades are not as big a deal as people think to the lower D-2, D-3, NAIA and JUCO schools. I don't know about D-1 but skills are the most important thing. You pitch and throw 90 you will get money and a spot. You run a 6.6, you will get money and a spot. You have a bad attitude they will take a chance on you. You hustle? Play Hard pick up team mates? really does not matter if you are not one of the best players on the field. Also once you get to most schools you get injured they don't care about you, just move to the next kid. It is all about what you can do for that team as a player and what you can do for that coach. This is just my honest opinion.
We were always told at these big Recruiting Seminars it's about grades and attitude but it is far outweighed by the skills. Take a pretty good HS player, going to college, this is what you will find. Take the super HS players different story. Take the average HS player good luck finding a team in college at any level. Work on Velocity, Speed, Power, baseball skills, grades, character and attitude are way down on the list. It sucks but that is how it is. It was not that way 10 years ago but times have changed. I am also not speaking for every college coach or program but the vast majority. |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2018 : 10:37:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
The bottom line is: You have to be seen. The bar is rising, the kids are getting better and better, what used to be a really good fastball is now just average.
If you go to the bigger PG events, you will see what games most of the scouts are watching, it will be the bigger organizations with the rosters loaded with talent. Sure, a few scouts will be watching the other teams, but when the big boys play, the scouts show up.
While there are exceptions to every rule as far as getting a D1 scholarship, most will come from the big name programs and you can see this on PG's website. So, if you don't play on one of these teams, then I would argue you need to go to a PG showcase. If you put up the numbers, you will get noticed. The other option is college camps, I know of and have seen kids get offered from camps and then there are others that say it is a money grab.
Again, the main thing is to get seen.
I'd like to point out that it IS possible to be seen because you are playing one of these big boy teams. Last year my son was guest pitching and they threw him up against a super duper team. Coaches were there to watch those kids, but as my son sat them down one by one the coaches came over and asked who was pitching. The way PG tourneys are set up, you will always play one of these super duper teams.
Also, the camp rules have changed. No 9th or 10th graders allowed on campus, officially or unofficially, and no offers being given at camps until junior year.
"Additionally, athletics departments can’t participate in a recruit’s unofficial visit until Sept. 1 of the recruit’s junior year in high school, and recruiting conversations during a school’s camp or clinic can’t happen before Sept. 1 of the junior year. "
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-i-council-adopts-recruiting-legislation
Wow! No more 10th grade commits. This could be a good thing in the long run. Unsure how it will affect players in the next 2 years. I wonder what do they define as an unofficial visit? |
|
|
|
bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2018 : 12:08:53
|
Yes, there are a lot of guys with radar guns and stop watches. I believe most of the scouts are legit, somebody is paying them to be there. That's also what the kids have to realize, someone is always watching.
As far as getting seen while playing the big boys. Absolutely, anytime you get a chance to play one of the top teams, you should consider that a prime opportunity to showcase your abilities. Even though the scouts are there to see someone else, if you perform well, you could definitely get on some radars.
I believe you are interpreting the "camp rule" incorrectly. Some camps are open for ages as young as 7 yrs. old. The colleges use camps as an unofficial way to scout, but mostly to raise money for the program and the coaches. You can certainly get on their radar, if you perform well. The rule says: "Additionally, athletics departments can’t participate in a recruit’s unofficial visit until Sept. 1 of the recruit’s junior year in high school, and recruiting conversations during a school’s camp or clinic can’t happen before Sept. 1 of the junior year. Both rules apply to all sports but football and basketball, which have their own rules."
I am not a rule expert, but I don't read how you interpret it. |
|
|
|
bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2018 : 14:39:48
|
| I don't think this rule change will halt the early committing. I believe it only addresses the issue of colleges using the camps as an early recruiting tool. The camps are supposed to be instructional/teaching only. |
|
|
|
Bombernation
51 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2018 : 15:32:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
With all due respect to the OP, it is an individual that has yet to navigate the travel ball world. If your kid has a skill set that allows him to make the top teams of the 643 / Astros / Team Elite teams from 10U through 16’s and beyond, then you understand that playing on a team with an operating budget of 40k plus every year means that the org that runs like a “business” is also in the “business” of making sure your kid is exposed professionally to the D1 world in a way that you may not otherwise have access to.
If my son was regularly being selected for the lower teams within these top orgs I would possibly consider looking into other options. The juice has to be worth the squeeze, and an honest assessment of your sons talent should always lead the way.
40K a year? I can tell they look at the parents rather than player. If kid goes to private school then the parents must have the coin to pay.
You do realize it’s 40k for the team and not the player, correct? Includes three uniforms and all tournament fees. You can roster a kid on the team much easier than paying for private school. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2018 : 07:13:56
|
My interpretations on the camp rule may have been overstated but think what a camp would be like for a 10th grader....the coaches can't talk about recruiting, can't answer questions....I have no proof yet but I would suspect the 10th grade camps aren't going to be staffed by actual staff for fear they would say something that could lead back to a NCAA recruiting violation. The real action will only be available at the Junior/Senior camps, which I believe will be a separate event from now on. At least that is what would make sense. has anyone noticed that all the camps that usually pop up in May are non-existent? No one knew how this rule would shake out.
I don't think this will stop the 9th/10th grade recruiting, but there are also now rules about coach not working through an intermediary anymore. I'm sure they will get around those rules by dropping hints they want Joe to call this number at this time, but they can't ask for it supposedly.
Official visit is on the colleges dime. They pay for airplane ticket, hotel cost...etc. Unofficial visit, all that is on the kid and IF the kid wants to spend the night he has to pay the going rental for a dorm room for the night. |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2018 : 11:51:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
With all due respect to the OP, it is an individual that has yet to navigate the travel ball world. If your kid has a skill set that allows him to make the top teams of the 643 / Astros / Team Elite teams from 10U through 16’s and beyond, then you understand that playing on a team with an operating budget of 40k plus every year means that the org that runs like a “business” is also in the “business” of making sure your kid is exposed professionally to the D1 world in a way that you may not otherwise have access to.
If my son was regularly being selected for the lower teams within these top orgs I would possibly consider looking into other options. The juice has to be worth the squeeze, and an honest assessment of your sons talent should always lead the way.
40K a year? I can tell they look at the parents rather than player. If kid goes to private school then the parents must have the coin to pay.
You do realize it’s 40k for the team and not the player, correct? Includes three uniforms and all tournament fees. You can roster a kid on the team much easier than paying for private school.
Still 40K a team is a lot. Unless they flying kids in from other states. Uniforms don't cost that much. Tourney fees are fixed, no give there. I need to post my team budget spread sheet. How many roster players and tournaments we talking about? |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2018 : 13:10:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
With all due respect to the OP, it is an individual that has yet to navigate the travel ball world. If your kid has a skill set that allows him to make the top teams of the 643 / Astros / Team Elite teams from 10U through 16’s and beyond, then you understand that playing on a team with an operating budget of 40k plus every year means that the org that runs like a “business” is also in the “business” of making sure your kid is exposed professionally to the D1 world in a way that you may not otherwise have access to.
If my son was regularly being selected for the lower teams within these top orgs I would possibly consider looking into other options. The juice has to be worth the squeeze, and an honest assessment of your sons talent should always lead the way.
40K a year? I can tell they look at the parents rather than player. If kid goes to private school then the parents must have the coin to pay.
You do realize it’s 40k for the team and not the player, correct? Includes three uniforms and all tournament fees. You can roster a kid on the team much easier than paying for private school.
Still 40K a team is a lot. Unless they flying kids in from other states. Uniforms don't cost that much. Tourney fees are fixed, no give there. I need to post my team budget spread sheet. How many roster players and tournaments we talking about?
Just make sure you say the age group. 9u was SOOO much cheaper than 16u. |
|
|
|
SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2018 : 18:56:12
|
@ Punishers
In 15U, we have 14 players at $3500.00 a piece with 10 tournaments scheduled. You do the math..., $49,000.00. So 40K is cheap. If you want to be on a top tier team and have talented coaches, you have to pay to dance!
At this point in time, it's all about the exposure and a chance for your kid to get a scholarship. Otherwise, we could go on a serious vacation somewhere nice! |
Edited by - SuperStar on 04/26/2018 19:51:09 |
|
|
|
Bombernation
51 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2018 : 19:00:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
With all due respect to the OP, it is an individual that has yet to navigate the travel ball world. If your kid has a skill set that allows him to make the top teams of the 643 / Astros / Team Elite teams from 10U through 16’s and beyond, then you understand that playing on a team with an operating budget of 40k plus every year means that the org that runs like a “business” is also in the “business” of making sure your kid is exposed professionally to the D1 world in a way that you may not otherwise have access to.
If my son was regularly being selected for the lower teams within these top orgs I would possibly consider looking into other options. The juice has to be worth the squeeze, and an honest assessment of your sons talent should always lead the way.
40K a year? I can tell they look at the parents rather than player. If kid goes to private school then the parents must have the coin to pay.
You do realize it’s 40k for the team and not the player, correct? Includes three uniforms and all tournament fees. You can roster a kid on the team much easier than paying for private school.
Still 40K a team is a lot. Unless they flying kids in from other states. Uniforms don't cost that much. Tourney fees are fixed, no give there. I need to post my team budget spread sheet. How many roster players and tournaments we talking about?
Just make sure you say the age group. 9u was SOOO much cheaper than 16u.
14’s. My son played in FL for quite some time before getting to the Greater ATL metro, and we have seen the s*it shows of all coaching and team management s*it shows. If they asked me to pay more, I would. Imagine a world where no Dad’s exist and the player has to earn their spot? A world where every kid on the team knows he was lucky to be one of 15 out of the 200+ that tried out. Humbles dudes early, makes them appreciate their roster spot, makes them understand implicitly that Dad isn’t giving a hand up to you or any of your teammates. Playing with and against some of the best youth players both in our area and nationally.
That plus the recruitment consultation is worth every penny to us.
|
Edited by - Bombernation on 04/26/2018 19:51:09 |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2018 : 04:28:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by SuperStar
@ Punishers
In 15U, we have 14 players at $3500.00 a piece with 10 tournaments scheduled. You do the math..., $49,000.00. So 40K is cheap. If you want to be on a top tier team and have talented coaches, you have to pay to dance!
At this point in time, it's all about the exposure and a chance for your kid to get a scholarship. Otherwise, we could go on a serious vacation somewhere nice!
I know a some 10u and 11u parents shelling out $3500 plus for dads coaching. I can see that price when you hit into the HS age where you are playing showcases and PG only. The age group matters when it comes to price. Still dont have to play for known program to get exposure. Many will pickup with one instead. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2018 : 07:29:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by SuperStar
@ Punishers
In 15U, we have 14 players at $3500.00 a piece with 10 tournaments scheduled. You do the math..., $49,000.00. So 40K is cheap. If you want to be on a top tier team and have talented coaches, you have to pay to dance!
At this point in time, it's all about the exposure and a chance for your kid to get a scholarship. Otherwise, we could go on a serious vacation somewhere nice!
15u, 15 players, 8 tourneys, $1800 fees, $550 for uniforms and practice fields, so $2350.
I think the difference is one paid coach for my kids team, vs. more for Superstar's kid. |
|
|
|
SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2018 : 10:46:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by SuperStar
@ Punishers
In 15U, we have 14 players at $3500.00 a piece with 10 tournaments scheduled. You do the math..., $49,000.00. So 40K is cheap. If you want to be on a top tier team and have talented coaches, you have to pay to dance!
At this point in time, it's all about the exposure and a chance for your kid to get a scholarship. Otherwise, we could go on a serious vacation somewhere nice!
I know a some 10u and 11u parents shelling out $3500 plus for dads coaching. I can see that price when you hit into the HS age where you are playing showcases and PG only. The age group matters when it comes to price. Still dont have to play for known program to get exposure. Many will pickup with one instead.
I agree, if the kid has talent, he will get recognized. Just helps to be on a top tier team. |
|
|
|
Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2018 : 15:52:45
|
$4700 is the premium price in our area. Plus $300 for uniform. Age High School.
$5000 X 16 players = $80,000 budget
10 tournaments
Most $1,000, some $2000, some $3000 so call it $15,000 tournament fees
Coach travel expense $1,000 per week at $10,000 total
Practices/Rent a field, maybe $2000
Now you're up to maybe $30,000 on costs
Coach isn't paid much $10,000
40,000 left to the Academy
Times however many teams full of players they can sell and market the dream too!
Great business model. Sham principles though. |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2018 : 16:25:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by SuperStar
@ Punishers
In 15U, we have 14 players at $3500.00 a piece with 10 tournaments scheduled. You do the math..., $49,000.00. So 40K is cheap. If you want to be on a top tier team and have talented coaches, you have to pay to dance!
At this point in time, it's all about the exposure and a chance for your kid to get a scholarship. Otherwise, we could go on a serious vacation somewhere nice!
15u, 15 players, 8 tourneys, $1800 fees, $550 for uniforms and practice fields, so $2350.
I think the difference is one paid coach for my kids team, vs. more for Superstar's kid.
You guys must be wearing uniforms laced with vibranium. |
|
|
|
SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2018 : 08:16:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by SuperStar
@ Punishers
In 15U, we have 14 players at $3500.00 a piece with 10 tournaments scheduled. You do the math..., $49,000.00. So 40K is cheap. If you want to be on a top tier team and have talented coaches, you have to pay to dance!
At this point in time, it's all about the exposure and a chance for your kid to get a scholarship. Otherwise, we could go on a serious vacation somewhere nice!
15u, 15 players, 8 tourneys, $1800 fees, $550 for uniforms and practice fields, so $2350.
I think the difference is one paid coach for my kids team, vs. more for Superstar's kid.
You guys must be wearing uniforms laced with vibranium.
That's correct, it even comes with gold belts...,  |
|
|
|
Bombernation
51 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2018 : 17:30:07
|
@Punishers
We all know what William said about protesting a bit too much. You are in 11’s. Still much to see for you. |
|
|
|
T13
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2018 : 23:40:52
|
Academy teams for younger ages just funding the 17u team.
Baseball scholarship is not you ticket to college- grades matter to D1 schools, it’s how they get your kid money.
Scouts are there looking at certain kids, not just browsing for talent.... they may ask about a kid occasionally but do they ever offer. Send videos to college and go to their camps if you want to be seen. |
|
|
|
T13
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2018 : 23:43:05
|
Academy teams for younger ages just funding the 17u team.
Baseball scholarship is not you ticket to college- grades matter to D1 schools, it’s how they get your kid money.
Scouts are there looking at certain kids, not just browsing for talent.... they may ask about a kid occasionally but do they ever offer. Send videos to college and go to their camps if you want to be seen. |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2018 : 08:29:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
@Punishers
We all know what William said about protesting a bit too much. You are in 11’s. Still much to see for you.
More of an Einstein fan. Bill was a failure at math. Speaking of math, let do some uniform math.
Tops: $40 x 2 $80
Pants: $35 x 2 $70
Belts: $10
Socks: $10
Caps: $30
Total: $200
And this is on the high side with custom sublimated uniforms. Where does $550 come from? $350 Profit? The more you order the cheaper each individual item is.
Legit 11yo playing up to 13u to play with his class and classmates. I'll let you do the math on that one. |
Edited by - Punishers on 04/29/2018 08:43:08 |
|
|
|
bbsis
42 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2018 : 12:03:05
|
| Uniforms must have profit built in. We've had numerous years with same academy team and players are required to order new every year (back pack, helmet, jerseys, belt, etc.) -- because it is "easier" for the coach/academy to place one large order instead of tailoring the order to what each player needs. I can see ordering new pants and perhaps replacing sweat-stained, stinky caps but so much is still in very useful condition. |
|
|
|
Bombernation
51 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2018 : 12:09:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by T13
Academy teams for younger ages just funding the 17u team.
Baseball scholarship is not you ticket to college- grades matter to D1 schools, it’s how they get your kid money.
Scouts are there looking at certain kids, not just browsing for talent.... they may ask about a kid occasionally but do they ever offer. Send videos to college and go to their camps if you want to be seen.
Or play for the top Academy team, where the owner has spent the last 10 years placing kids in colleges and forming relationships with the decision makers at those colleges? Sounds more efficient than sending out videos. |
|
|
|
Bombernation
51 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2018 : 12:11:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
@Punishers
We all know what William said about protesting a bit too much. You are in 11’s. Still much to see for you.
More of an Einstein fan. Bill was a failure at math. Speaking of math, let do some uniform math.
Tops: $40 x 2 $80
Pants: $35 x 2 $70
Belts: $10
Socks: $10
Caps: $30
Total: $200
And this is on the high side with custom sublimated uniforms. Where does $550 come from? $350 Profit? The more you order the cheaper each individual item is.
Legit 11yo playing up to 13u to play with his class and classmates. I'll let you do the math on that one.
And you keep protesting. I said it before, not a Dad anywhere to be seen on that field. That costs money, and it’s also worth every penny.
|
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2018 : 16:02:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
@Punishers
We all know what William said about protesting a bit too much. You are in 11’s. Still much to see for you.
More of an Einstein fan. Bill was a failure at math. Speaking of math, let do some uniform math.
Tops: $40 x 2 $80
Pants: $35 x 2 $70
Belts: $10
Socks: $10
Caps: $30
Total: $200
And this is on the high side with custom sublimated uniforms. Where does $550 come from? $350 Profit? The more you order the cheaper each individual item is.
Legit 11yo playing up to 13u to play with his class and classmates. I'll let you do the math on that one.
And you keep protesting. I said it before, not a Dad anywhere to be seen on that field. That costs money, and it’s also worth every penny.
Not protesting, just using common sense and numbers. You sound like the rest of the big name programs, push the same sales narrative of getting kids college scholarships without telling the truth that they will only get 20% athletic scholarship and not a full ride. And if they dont have the grades they may as well be a walk-on and take out student loans or go to D2, D3, or Juco or high round draft pick if possible. Then you hear the "well, you knows" and the "it is what it is" crap when all those so called connections will never materialize.
If I am understanding this correctly: You pad the cost of the uniforms to cover paid coaching? Why even have line item for paid coaches? Numbers don't lie, but words do. You say protesting, I say show me the numbers. Don't say I'm protesting when you are not willing to show it. Unless saying someone is protesting in your way of hiding the numbers.
I have no problem with a profit, just not a 100% + profit. Even retail profit is only 20% - 25%. |
Edited by - Punishers on 04/29/2018 17:29:39 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Travel Teams-Programs
