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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| LittleDawg |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 10:07:06
Excellent Information
http://paulreddickbaseballvip.com/catalog/a-scary-situation-for-baseball-development/ |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 11/28/2016 : 11:20:22
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
I know I keep biting, but it keeps getting more and more fascinating...
Punishers- I gave you enough info to know that our team has played MANY Perfect Game tournaments. My son has made 4 All Tournament PG Teams in the past 3 years. I have gone out of my way to make sure very few people know I played MiLB in our baseball social circle. My son is the rare kid who recently turned 13 and is an inch away from 6 foot and throwing 77 m.p.h. Fastballs because he knows overthrowing at this age is irrelevant. He is getting solid advice from jaded folks with experience. (Read: Me)
I mentioned your speech filter because of the assumptions you so easily made about someone you know nothing about. This is the same reason I am going back to being a casual reader; I get the feeling the Common Sense Commissioners live beyond establishing a username and faceless, baseless opinion.
Having a big kid who throws hard has it's own unique challenges. The bigger the kid the more likely they are to get hurt. I hope you take care of him.
Having a larger boy myself, who has made it to 9th grade without growth plate issues (knock on wood), I still don't see the problem with the drills from 60 ft. The throw from 1B to 3B has to be further and coaches have kids practice those throws. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 11/19/2016 : 23:07:55
Yes semipro you are right. And if you play PG, even for little ones, pitchsmart is in effect..you will NOT see a pitcher throw 107 pitches in 2 games, or even one, because it exceeds the allowed maximum for that age. In fact I believe over 76 pitches for ages 15-18 requires 4 days of rest but double check me on that. 107 for an 11 year old?! Never!! |
| RUSemiPro |
Posted - 11/18/2016 : 12:30:56
Punishers - Agree, on the Mental side of pitching and reading the batter, situations, knowing the counts etc. As well as holding runners. The majority of these coaches are no where close to teaching that and on top of that, some of these kids struggle to comprehend. Most kids 12 and under are struggling just to throw strikes, but those that can understand all the components of pitching will be a much better and dominant pitcher.
I Also agree, your #1 pitcher will have bad days, good coaches will identify it and pull the kid, save him for the next day or game. Some days you are on, some you are off, I think the lack of pitching depth on these younger travel teams sort of forces these coaches hands, but if you have the depth, pull an ineffective pitcher even if he is your top 1 or 2 guys, don't kill his arm or worse his confidence. Some teams just have certain kids numbers when it comes to hitting, don't let a kid get shelled.
I also heard of an 11U team this fall throwing a kid 107 pitches over 2 back to back games in a fall weekend tourney. They won, but my thought is that is a awful big risk to win a fall Sunday only tournament, and what is the motivation of the coaches, organization and parents? We all want to win, but that may be a little excessive at 10/11 years old.
But all of these problems, I believe stem from not enough practice and too many games and scrimmages. Some teams may practice 1 time for every 4-5 games played. No time to teach or fix things, so unless the kid is working on his own, how do they expect to get better.
I think good teams should practice twice a week minimum, then play some weekend tournaments for a couple weeks, then take a week or two off to rest and weekend practices, then go back play 2 or 3 tourneys etc.
Some 10,11, 12U teams are close to 85,90 or 100+ games in a season, where does the practice and learning come in. On rain outs, find a place with a whiteboard and do chalk talk, or go over those mental aspects you mentioned above.
All of this circles back to, we as Parents, Coaches (volunteer, daddy and professional) and Organizations (Acadameys, Tournaments, etc). Need to take a hard look in the mirror and constantly ask ourselves, what are we doing, why and is it in the athletes best interest our ours? I think the goal should be to teach the game properly, work hard, have fun and grow their love for the game.
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| Punishers |
Posted - 11/18/2016 : 09:58:38
Velocity and Control are just a few elements to Pitching. It is a separate strategy in it's on. We haven't even touched upon understanding batter's stance, projecting the swing path, distance from plate, knowing what pitches to throw depending on the count, plate points, hitting the corners of the strike zone, showing different stretches, and more.
Being able to identify a batter that likes to extend early on his swing and doesn't show he can shorten it, means all inside pitches. Then again, if the batter can't catch up to the fastball, stick with it until they can prove they can.
Back to the OP.......Overuse kills! I've seen coaches leave kids on the mound who has thrown over 50 pitches in the 1st inning, giving up 6 + runs. I consider that overuse and the coach not being able to identify what he is doing. Kid may have been a good pitcher, but his stuff wasn't on that game. Totally defies all logic of the game. Maybe this is more acceptable this day in age of youth baseball? |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 11/18/2016 : 07:50:14
You nailed it semipro with regard to pitching imo |
| Bombernation |
Posted - 11/17/2016 : 21:47:00
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Bombers... We are not teaming up on you, but you actually asked for a link to PG that leads many to question you. I take it your team has never played in a PG event? We can agree to disagree on your thoughts of how fast youth pitchers are throwing or my training methods. Take a look at this year's MLB draft: there were about 10 kids just turning 18 that could throw triple digits that went in the 1st and 2nd round. I would encourage you to do your own research before hand. It appears that you have only been involved in baseball since your kid is playing. Why don't you talk to some high level coaches that have been in the game for a while to get more details and keep an open mind on the results.
Congrats on beating the Astros, but remember Baseball is a any-given-game sport.
As far as my speech impulse filter is concerned. I'm definitely not on the young or dumb side, got enough 2 letter titles behind my name. I am a very big advocate of intelligence and research while having little patience for ignorance. Get out of the "small world" and do not be afraid to learn more about the game. Having played thousands of games post-college, in multiple countries and being trained by some of the best, there is not too much I haven't seen or experienced in this game, but I can always be surprised when it comes to youth baseball.
I know I keep biting, but it keeps getting more and more fascinating...
Punishers- I gave you enough info to know that our team has played MANY Perfect Game tournaments. My son has made 4 All Tournament PG Teams in the past 3 years. I have gone out of my way to make sure very few people know I played MiLB in our baseball social circle. My son is the rare kid who recently turned 13 and is an inch away from 6 foot and throwing 77 m.p.h. Fastballs because he knows overthrowing at this age is irrelevant. He is getting solid advice from jaded folks with experience. (Read: Me)
I mentioned your speech filter because of the assumptions you so easily made about someone you know nothing about. This is the same reason I am going back to being a casual reader; I get the feeling the Common Sense Commissioners live beyond establishing a username and faceless, baseless opinion.
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| RUSemiPro |
Posted - 11/17/2016 : 18:20:14
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Quote:
if your son tries out (even at young ages) for Team USA, USSSA All American or any similar All-Star travel type end of season team they WILL use a radar gun on his pitching velocity AND his fielding velocity.
Crazyforbball, just to add, they will also use it for exit velocity when hitting measure perceived power as well. As well as stop watches for 40 or 60 yd running and catcher pop times. I agree that velocity and speed numbers along with size are not the end all be all. But, I think at the older HS/College/Pro levels, the assumption is most everyone is the same skill wise as they get older, thus those numbers start separating the crowd.
I have mixed feelings on radar use on younger kids, but I actually have a pocket radar and from time to time will use it to benchmark those variables, then put it away for a while and measure later again to see if there is improvement. I don't use it to say you are 10 or 11 and need to be throwing XX mph. I think you have to be careful, because they see the gun/radar and tend to want to throw harder out of their normal routine. However, if one can measure out of sight it could be more valuable than a pitch count in determining fatigue or effectiveness of change ups, to me there is no magic number on throwing, it has to do with fatigue and a breakdown of mechanics when problems occur and kids get hurt. One kid may be able to throw 85 pitches, no problem, another 60 both the samme age. So if a radar/gun if used properly and out of sight could give coaches good feedback that the naked eye cannot see as to a pitchers endurance and true fatigue.
I agree I think Punishers is saying there are kids out there that can throw hard, but I agree with you I'd rather have a kid that can locate with movement. The velocity will eventually come with puberty. I'd much rather hit a kid throwing gas but flat and level, than a kid 5-10 less but with nasty movement who can hit his spots. While my son does know his Average FB velo, and Average Change velo, we've always have measured success by his accuracy and control, choosing to focus on K to BB ratios, Strike pct, those metrics. At the end of the day his job as a pitcher is not to K everyone with high heat, but to be effective and get the other team to hit weak balls so his fielders can make the plays. Accuracy, Location, Movement, change speeds and the batters eyes that is what I emphasize with my son, and when that fastball velo arrives with puberty he will be that much stronger of a pitcher.
At the end of the day as parents and coaches of these younger kids, our job is to make sure they are the best player they can be to their potential, not try to make them something they are not.
Limit freebies and pitch to weak contact. |
| hshuler |
Posted - 11/17/2016 : 18:02:47
I am not advocating for radar guns but kids will always try to throw their hardest with or without the radar gun. We all did it because that's what boys do --- compete! |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 11/17/2016 : 15:36:11
Quote:
"Please include links to justify those numbers. If you are even somewhat of the opinion that kids should have velo numbers mentioned in the same sentence as anything under 15U, that is the clearest way to label someone a "newbie""
Bomber I may have been misunderstanding you here since this was in response to my quoting Perfect Game with THEIR stats of kids throwing in the 60's and 70's at the young ages. Maybe you just meant no one should be clocked before age 15, but again, Perfect Game starts gunning them young. Pitching and hitting are how you make the all tournament team. No one here is suggesting coaches put little kids out there to throw 100 pitches at maximum velocity. We are just pointing out that there ARE kids throwing that fast. And that kids WILL throw their hardest (even if you tell them not to), it's just the competitive nature of the kids. And like it or not, if your son tries out (even at young ages) for Team USA, USSSA All American or any similar All-Star travel type end of season team they WILL use a radar gun on his pitching velocity AND his fielding velocity. Only the kids with the fastest velocities make those teams. Velocity trumps accuracy all day long. There really is no pool of evidence out there suggesting that SPEED is the issue, it's overuse that causes damage. And we have all seen TONS of overuse of good pitchers, many throwing way below those speeds. And we have seen little ones throwing curve balls and THAT is a major concern to put a young kid out there inning after inning doing that to win. That is where all the injury controversy stems from and rightfully so, hence the new limits of Pitchsmart that are now mandatory at all PG events. Pitchsmart, however, places no limit on velocity, how could you? "Stop throwing so hard!" You just limit the throws to a reasonable number. Most teams with good coaching are especially cognizant of the number of throws by their kids who throw heat, because no one wants the kid injured! (but that is where the parent also needs to be educated and advocate for their own son). Maybe I'm wrong about all this, but I do try to stay current for my own son's sake! I don't know a kid out there who doesn't love to peek back at his velo posted on that big jumbotron at PG. Often they don't display it, but the official is still using the gun, and the parents can go scope out the velo, which they do, if for nothing else, out of curiosity. Silly for 9 and 10 year olds, sure, I don't think Punishers is saying he trains his boys to throw just velo, he is just pointing out that he has one who can. His point was he uses a big field to train for focus not velocity. This all surely goes on long before age 15. The MLB holds open tryouts every summer where kids as young as 14 can get in front of scouts. Many go every year. Right or wrong, if you are a teenager approaching 100 mph you are getting their attention. It's up to you to play for a coach who doesn't overuse your son if he has the capability, AND to make sure he is taught proper mechanics. But I certainly am not ganging up, I joined this thread in the first place to defend the little guys you thought should be mostly weeded out of majors teams. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 11/17/2016 : 14:11:04
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
Again, this has SO derailed, and further proves the OP's post.... Who's ruining the sport? PARENTS AND COACHES!!!! Radar guns on 9 and 10-year olds???? Good grief. What's this sport come to? Nothing more than a pissing contest for dads/parents/coaches/trainers. Show me a 10-yr old throwing gas, and I'll show you 10x's that many kids waiting to FEAST straight fastballs. If a trainer or coach is teaching nothing but velo, he isn't a true trainer/coach. He's a joke. The most effective 9/10-yr old I've seen on the mound had a stellar CHANGE-UP-- gasp-- nothing to do with heat.
Turntwo, I'm surprised. I think both velo and location can be taught by a trainer as well as multiple types of grips. Funny enough my son was known only for his velo. It wasn't until his hand was big enough to do a different type of change up that that pitch actually started working for him. The circle change he had was SOOO inconsistent.
And just in case our friend bomber is still reading, if you send me an email I can send you a local boys profile that had him throwing 75 at 12u, and he was 5'3 and 108 pounds. |
| Punishers |
Posted - 11/17/2016 : 11:31:40
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
Again, this has SO derailed, and further proves the OP's post.... Who's ruining the sport? PARENTS AND COACHES!!!! Radar guns on 9 and 10-year olds???? Good grief. What's this sport come to? Nothing more than a pissing contest for dads/parents/coaches/trainers. Show me a 10-yr old throwing gas, and I'll show you 10x's that many kids waiting to FEAST straight fastballs. If a trainer or coach is teaching nothing but velo, he isn't a true trainer/coach. He's a joke. The most effective 9/10-yr old I've seen on the mound had a stellar CHANGE-UP-- gasp-- nothing to do with heat.
LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION! |
| Punishers |
Posted - 11/17/2016 : 11:27:36
Bombers... We are not teaming up on you, but you actually asked for a link to PG that leads many to question you. I take it your team has never played in a PG event? We can agree to disagree on your thoughts of how fast youth pitchers are throwing or my training methods. Take a look at this year's MLB draft: there were about 10 kids just turning 18 that could throw triple digits that went in the 1st and 2nd round. I would encourage you to do your own research before hand. It appears that you have only been involved in baseball since your kid is playing. Why don't you talk to some high level coaches that have been in the game for a while to get more details and keep an open mind on the results.
Congrats on beating the Astros, but remember Baseball is a any-given-game sport.
As far as my speech impulse filter is concerned. I'm definitely not on the young or dumb side, got enough 2 letter titles behind my name. I am a very big advocate of intelligence and research while having little patience for ignorance. Get out of the "small world" and do not be afraid to learn more about the game. Having played thousands of games post-college, in multiple countries and being trained by some of the best, there is not too much I haven't seen or experienced in this game, but I can always be surprised when it comes to youth baseball. |
| turntwo |
Posted - 11/17/2016 : 09:43:28
Again, this has SO derailed, and further proves the OP's post.... Who's ruining the sport? PARENTS AND COACHES!!!! Radar guns on 9 and 10-year olds???? Good grief. What's this sport come to? Nothing more than a pissing contest for dads/parents/coaches/trainers. Show me a 10-yr old throwing gas, and I'll show you 10x's that many kids waiting to FEAST straight fastballs. If a trainer or coach is teaching nothing but velo, he isn't a true trainer/coach. He's a joke. The most effective 9/10-yr old I've seen on the mound had a stellar CHANGE-UP-- gasp-- nothing to do with heat. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 11/17/2016 : 08:55:05
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Bombers...what major team is your kid on? I'm sure the batters from the other teams are having a field day on your pitchers. 15 and only throwing 65mph? I would not say it's too late, but he is definitely behind about 20mph. You may not agree with my techniques, but I have been coaching and training kids for over 20 yrs, since I stopped playing professionally, and not one has ever had to have arm surgery nor in any pain.
Can you go back and show me where I said that pitchers should not be throwing 65 until they are 15? I never said that, in any way. And no, no field day on our pitchers. We actually had a field day on the Astro's pitchers our last Fall tournament, beating them with a walk off Grand Slam home run to win the Championship.
Punishers- you remind me of a younger person that doesn't have the speech impulse filter yet
And I will not be posting again, seems like 6 people agreeing with each other the last year or so, and a pile on for anyone with common sense.
Explain why you think Punishers is incorrect, either in what he has reported seeing a kid throw OR in how he is training his pitchers. The glitch here is that your version of "common sense" doesn't jive with what others have seen. What age group is your son? |
| Bombernation |
Posted - 11/17/2016 : 08:14:24
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Bombers...what major team is your kid on? I'm sure the batters from the other teams are having a field day on your pitchers. 15 and only throwing 65mph? I would not say it's too late, but he is definitely behind about 20mph. You may not agree with my techniques, but I have been coaching and training kids for over 20 yrs, since I stopped playing professionally, and not one has ever had to have arm surgery nor in any pain.
Can you go back and show me where I said that pitchers should not be throwing 65 until they are 15? I never said that, in any way. And no, no field day on our pitchers. We actually had a field day on the Astro's pitchers our last Fall tournament, beating them with a walk off Grand Slam home run to win the Championship.
Punishers- you remind me of a younger person that doesn't have the speech impulse filter yet
And I will not be posting again, seems like 6 people agreeing with each other the last year or so, and a pile on for anyone with common sense. |
| Punishers |
Posted - 11/16/2016 : 19:37:53
Bombers...what major team is your kid on? I'm sure the batters from the other teams are having a field day on your pitchers. 15 and only throwing 65mph? I would not say it's too late, but he is definitely behind about 20mph. You may not agree with my techniques, but I have been coaching and training kids for over 20 yrs, since I stopped playing professionally, and not one has ever had to have arm surgery nor in any pain. |
| Punishers |
Posted - 11/16/2016 : 14:56:19
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
Let's try this from another angle- You are under the impression that:
A. Anyone here believes that a 65 pound 10 year old is throwing the ball 65 m.p.h.
B. If a 65 pound 10 year old could actually throw 65 m.p.h. that it's a good idea to validate it and allow it to continue.
The moderator wouldn't post my comment before, but I will try it again. Anyone, or any coach for that matter, who reads the above and backs it would be considered a dangerous coach or a misinformed person in our organization.
Punishers, we move from 46 to 50 to 60 feet for a reason in this game. In this day and age of arm damage awareness, your philosophy is alarming.
Bombernation, there are kids throwing that hard and that young. Punisher has already said that it's a location drill, not that he is entering 10u kids into a 14u tourney and having them throw 60 feet to pitch.
As for arm damage awareness I'm failing to see your point. What is the distance from 1B to 3B, even on the 46 field? How many drills are done with those kids making that throw?
Also, the reason there are smaller fields is to make the game competitive and teach children how to properly play baseball. Having an 8u kid throw across a 60x90 field and having the ball bounce 4 times before it hits 1B doesn't really teach how the game should be played. There are other adaptations that have been accepted to protect pitchers arms, but the field size was not one of them.
Bomber is under the falsehood that size translates to velocity? I said this before. "Size has nothing to do with how much force and velocity someone can generate". Proper training, mechanics and hard work. I have personally seen a 9yr old from TN hit 74 at a PG event. Bomber must think that if my kid can't throw 65mph than no kid can throw that fast. Hopefully he knows that pitching is more about core and leg power than arm.
|
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 11/16/2016 : 13:54:39
Bomber..those numbers are from Perfect Game. Just go on Perfect Game and look it up from last year. Age really has nothing to do with it, it's the physical development of the boy. Some just go through puberty early. Also to suggest kids on majors teams not throw over 65 until 15?! The 15 year olds I know throw 80. These are not even at the top nationally, these are just some of your better high school pitchers. One of my son's coaches was throwing 94 in high school..now in college at 19 he is approaching 100. There are at least a dozen 12 year olds I can think of throwing around 70 and they were all throwing avg 65 at 11. Caco3 has it right..that is their MAX velocity and the coaches do have them slow it down a little for better control. As control increases they can up their game to maximum velo which has little bearing on hurting their arm unless coach is clueless and pitches those kids 6 innings. Again just imho. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 11/16/2016 : 11:28:46
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
Let's try this from another angle- You are under the impression that:
A. Anyone here believes that a 65 pound 10 year old is throwing the ball 65 m.p.h.
B. If a 65 pound 10 year old could actually throw 65 m.p.h. that it's a good idea to validate it and allow it to continue.
The moderator wouldn't post my comment before, but I will try it again. Anyone, or any coach for that matter, who reads the above and backs it would be considered a dangerous coach or a misinformed person in our organization.
Punishers, we move from 46 to 50 to 60 feet for a reason in this game. In this day and age of arm damage awareness, your philosophy is alarming.
Bombernation, there are kids throwing that hard and that young. Punisher has already said that it's a location drill, not that he is entering 10u kids into a 14u tourney and having them throw 60 feet to pitch.
As for arm damage awareness I'm failing to see your point. What is the distance from 1B to 3B, even on the 46 field? How many drills are done with those kids making that throw?
Also, the reason there are smaller fields is to make the game competitive and teach children how to properly play baseball. Having an 8u kid throw across a 60x90 field and having the ball bounce 4 times before it hits 1B doesn't really teach how the game should be played. There are other adaptations that have been accepted to protect pitchers arms, but the field size was not one of them.
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| Bombernation |
Posted - 11/16/2016 : 08:36:13
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Bomber must be new to the game or may have never played it before to make size comments like that. But, hey, it' your feelings - not facts. There is a 10yr old that I train, weights about 65lbs and throws the ball his weight plus in mph from 60ft. He looks like a lightweight on the mound until you see batters try to catch up to his fast ball. Size in this game is debunked. Big bats equals less hits too. So all these coaches can keep the big kids for now. 60/90 is the truth teller, if they make it that far.
Punishers- Are you saying you are training a 65 pound 10 year old to throw 60 feet from the mound???
OMG. Yeah, you are new.
Of course. Field dimensions for a real baseball field. Just part of my training for pitchers. The reason I train from that distance is for them to understand focus points. The farther the plate from the mound, the focus window is smaller for locating pitches. When they get on a 46ft mound, it looks like they can reach out and touch the catcher, thus making locating pitches easier. Similar to the Jager long toss method, but less pitches and more focus.
Punishers- You cannot come to this forum and make the claim that you are training a 65 pound 10 year old throwing between 65-70 mph from 60 feet, and expect to retain any kind of credibility from the rest of us? Your inability to respond directly to the question asked makes me skeptical; not to mention some of your previous posts.
Answer the question asked.
Question was answered. Please read my post. I said "Of Course" at the beginning of the paragraph.
Let me explain the physics to you in plain and simple terms:
Whatever velocity a pitcher throws, is the actual velocity no matter the distance.
Example: 65mph is 65mph, no matter if the distance if 40ft or 60ft. It's like you driving 65mph and your destination is 40 miles away, or it could be 60 miles away. You are still driving 65mph. The only thing that differs is the time to destination to whatever distance.
Uggghh. Now you made me start remembering all the stuff I learned about physics in college.
Let's try this from another angle- You are under the impression that:
A. Anyone here believes that a 65 pound 10 year old is throwing the ball 65 m.p.h.
B. If a 65 pound 10 year old could actually throw 65 m.p.h. that it's a good idea to validate it and allow it to continue.
The moderator wouldn't post my comment before, but I will try it again. Anyone, or any coach for that matter, who reads the above and backs it would be considered a dangerous coach or a misinformed person in our organization.
Punishers, we move from 46 to 50 to 60 feet for a reason in this game. In this day and age of arm damage awareness, your philosophy is alarming.
|
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 11/16/2016 : 07:58:02
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Just depends..I don't think velocity is the issue, rather no. of throws AT that velocity that does the damage. Just FYI for 2016 the best PG recorded fir 10U was 70 mph, with the average being 53 and for 11U the best was 72, with the average being 58. Also there are 12U that weigh 65 lb. Should they be prevented from throwing in the 60's? It's not the age OR the size, it's the player. I've said it before, will say it again, size is irrelevant. Yes, majors teams tend to have some of the larger athletic kids, but every majors team has at least a couple smaller studs too.
Please include links to justify those numbers. If you are even somewhat of the opinion that kids should have velo numbers mentioned in the same sentence as anything under 15U, that is the clearest way to label someone a "newbie". And FYI Punishers, that was directed at you. You would be surprised at the experience you question.
Its easy enough to go to the perfect game website and look up the tournament highs. Also, if you look at the profile of any 10u kid that pitched there is a bar graph that shows what the high and average number for that graduating year threw that year.
Kids develop at different rates. I recall being at Cooperstown when our 3B coach was about a foot shorter than the 12 year old playing 3B for the other team, whom had a 5 o'clock shadow! My sons coach actually asked the kid if his wife and kids were enjoying their stay at Cooperstown! I fully believe that "child" was throwing well over 70.
Some coaches clock the younger age groups, some are against it, but most kids do want to know what they are throwing. I have seen the radar gun being used as an excellent tool to illustrate to younger players the concept that it is better to throw at 90% power and get a strike than gain 2-3 mph by throwing as hard as you can and likely throwing a wild pitch. Your max effort isn't a huge difference and it can cause a major loss of control. Learn control first, then add the power.
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| turntwo |
Posted - 11/16/2016 : 07:42:36
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
The size-range gets bigger? ... So, I'm not sure the best coaches in the world could keep lil Timmy enthralled in the game if it's beyond is physical capability...
Look, my comment was in general terms, NOT to throw the 'little guys' under the bus. I grew up in Atlanta-- a life-long Braves fan. Glen Hubbard was a small 2B, and had a steller glove, and could flat play. BUT, I also grew up playing ball... When I was 12/13 and a 'late bloomer', my desire in baseball wained. Friends of mine hit puberty early, grew, developed muscle, and I was a 'boy' amongst men. Coupled with it, I was 'average' at best-- when the field was 'level', the constant 'failure' (or lack of steady success against those bigger, faster, stronger than I just diminished my desire to play. No big deal. No harm. I switched parks to somewhere not as competitive, played sandlot ball with some buddies, picked up different sports to keep me busy (golf, tennis, fishing) and I was a content young man.
So, when I say "size range", or kids not having the successes they once had-- that's not a knock on the kids. It's life. It's what I personally went through. No harm. It's reality. That some will play it as a sport-- a GAME-- for FUN-- until the gap widens so much so that there's no longer that much success, no longer is it 'fun', and that typically is around the age of puberty. |
| Punishers |
Posted - 11/15/2016 : 22:33:23
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Just depends..I don't think velocity is the issue, rather no. of throws AT that velocity that does the damage. Just FYI for 2016 the best PG recorded fir 10U was 70 mph, with the average being 53 and for 11U the best was 72, with the average being 58. Also there are 12U that weigh 65 lb. Should they be prevented from throwing in the 60's? It's not the age OR the size, it's the player. I've said it before, will say it again, size is irrelevant. Yes, majors teams tend to have some of the larger athletic kids, but every majors team has at least a couple smaller studs too.
Please include links to justify those numbers. If you are even somewhat of the opinion that kids should have velo numbers mentioned in the same sentence as anything under 15U, that is the clearest way to label someone a "newbie". And FYI Punishers, that was directed at you. You would be surprised at the experience you question.
10yr olds pitching 65 or 70 and more is nothing new. They are in the higher percentile for their velocity and not in the average range. So I guess PG is lying about those numbers?
Overuse is what kills a pitcher's arm, not distance. For the few select guys I train (for free - since I'm not in it for the money but sharing knowledge), they might throw 20 pitches, if that, from a 60ft mound. It's a focus and location exercise, not a velocity exercise.
Why don't you enlightened us about your experience? Your posts are suspect about your knowledge of the game. |
| Punishers |
Posted - 11/15/2016 : 20:28:20
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
And those big kids that only "hit for power"...when you face another "true majors team", unless all those big hits are home runs, or everyone hits only line drives in the gaps, alot of those "big hits" are easily caught by a majors outfield and the line drives..that's where the tiny, scrappy lightning fast infield comes into play. Takes a mix to make a "true" majors team...just imho of course.
Very True. This is when you start playing real baseball. Any ball put in the air is an out. Like a slow grounder is an out. At majors level those are automatic outs, not hopeful-to-be-made plays. |
| Punishers |
Posted - 11/15/2016 : 20:15:49
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Bombernation
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Bomber must be new to the game or may have never played it before to make size comments like that. But, hey, it' your feelings - not facts. There is a 10yr old that I train, weights about 65lbs and throws the ball his weight plus in mph from 60ft. He looks like a lightweight on the mound until you see batters try to catch up to his fast ball. Size in this game is debunked. Big bats equals less hits too. So all these coaches can keep the big kids for now. 60/90 is the truth teller, if they make it that far.
Punishers- Are you saying you are training a 65 pound 10 year old to throw 60 feet from the mound???
OMG. Yeah, you are new.
Of course. Field dimensions for a real baseball field. Just part of my training for pitchers. The reason I train from that distance is for them to understand focus points. The farther the plate from the mound, the focus window is smaller for locating pitches. When they get on a 46ft mound, it looks like they can reach out and touch the catcher, thus making locating pitches easier. Similar to the Jager long toss method, but less pitches and more focus.
Punishers- You cannot come to this forum and make the claim that you are training a 65 pound 10 year old throwing between 65-70 mph from 60 feet, and expect to retain any kind of credibility from the rest of us? Your inability to respond directly to the question asked makes me skeptical; not to mention some of your previous posts.
Answer the question asked.
Question was answered. Please read my post. I said "Of Course" at the beginning of the paragraph.
Let me explain the physics to you in plain and simple terms:
Whatever velocity a pitcher throws, is the actual velocity no matter the distance.
Example: 65mph is 65mph, no matter if the distance if 40ft or 60ft. It's like you driving 65mph and your destination is 40 miles away, or it could be 60 miles away. You are still driving 65mph. The only thing that differs is the time to destination to whatever distance.
Uggghh. Now you made me start remembering all the stuff I learned about physics in college. |
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