| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| baseballwizkid |
Posted - 01/26/2009 : 22:01:37
We have been told a story of a player(9-10yo) that has apparently been on 5 teams since late summer when they quit their summer travel team.
Is this a big deal or normal, eventually will they get a reputation and nobody will want the kid.
The player is apparently big for his age so he appears to be a dominating force at the plate and the mound but is an average travel ball player at best, especially when you factor in his lack of speed and lack of mobility in the field.
Your thoughts on Team Jumpers? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| coachdan06 |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 22:40:43
[quote]Originally posted by tater77bug
In my opinion jumpers are overwhelmingly from the parent side....and it is usually parents that never played sports so they have a very narrow view of what being a team is about
BINGO BINGO BINGO
Tater you left out the part about living through the prodigy but you hit everything else dead center.
Bad dynamic to have around a team they wreck it for everyone including the poor kid himself. |
| tater77bug |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 12:45:22
Very well said pcc....
quote:
Originally posted by pcc
5 teams......what is the common denominator on all 5 teams.
The Team Jumper's family that is unhappy on all 5. Enough said.
|
| tater77bug |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 12:38:01
In my opinion jumpers are overwhelmingly from the parent side....and it is usually parents that never played sports so they have a very narrow view of what being a team is about...in my experience kids just want to play baseball and be around folks they like. Parenst get too caught up in trophies and the next prodigy syndrome. I have had jumpers on my team before and guess what.....they jumped from me to someone else...and I have had kids that I started with jump to other teams because their parents thought the other program was better. And every single jumper that started with me that left wanted to come back...and all were good kids with parents that did not see the big picture....I no longer will take a jumper during the season....because they jumped for a reason and it's usually parent motivated and not kid motivated....after the season I have open invites to kids...but I keep an eye out for the jumpers because they just never seem to stop jumping...non coaches kids!!! |
| bballman |
Posted - 02/01/2009 : 16:04:33
I have no problem with someone leaving after a season is over to find a new team. My problem is when a family commits prior to the season, then leaves before the season even starts. Or when a family leaves in the middle of the season because they think there are greener pastures. Just not right. |
| bmoser |
Posted - 01/30/2009 : 19:03:32
Tater77Bug
In your opinion, and as a percent all jumpers, are most jumpers Coaches, or non-Coaches kids? Do you see any significant variance between the 2 groups? |
| tater77bug |
Posted - 01/30/2009 : 13:33:36
Team jumpers at 9 to 10 will most likely always be team jumpers. Usually it's the parents that look for something more......I have no problem with a kid moving on if there are serious fundamental problems with a team...i.e. the coach is a boozer, abusive, very unorganized, or picks up kids every weekend. But most JUMPERS will kill the team they jump to. Because most likely they are selfish people looking for the next great thing....and at 9 to 10 many will not be players when they get to be 14-16. So many people miss the big picture...we all want to win every weekend but at the end of everyday we should be concerned that our children are having fun and learning the correct way to play....most kids remember there teammates and the times they have played together as much as the "trophies"....sorry if I sound preachy... |
| bmoser |
Posted - 01/30/2009 : 07:15:31
Agreed, there are times when jumpinf is the bes thing to do.
quote:
Originally posted by coachdan06
[quote]Originally posted by SportsDad
maybe so...but I've seen and so have many parents seen 1)coaches who bring in kids at the end to win tournament, and kids who have been there all year long sit..2)coaches who tell kids one thing when the get them to commit, only to find a "better" player and the kid sits..
From where we've sat the items you listed , those are not coaches they are obsessive personalities seeking personal glory .
Those are by someone who has gone past the boundaries of character and respect for everyone whom they pretend to 'lead' but dont . No one is fooled .
It isnt about being happy or about getting what you want as a player and sure not as a parent : too much the parents ego gets involved .
But when a parent sees consistent negative situations and no fairness or improvement is to be found but yet a player is expected to show up and take it  I dont know of anyone with self esteem who would do that , so whats to be gained ?
That's hopefully when you do become a "team jumper" rather than a victim of bad character.
|
| coachdan06 |
Posted - 01/29/2009 : 14:53:08
[quote]Originally posted by SportsDad
maybe so...but I've seen and so have many parents seen 1)coaches who bring in kids at the end to win tournament, and kids who have been there all year long sit..2)coaches who tell kids one thing when the get them to commit, only to find a "better" player and the kid sits..
From where we've sat the items you listed , those are not coaches they are obsessive personalities seeking personal glory .
Those are by someone who has gone past the boundaries of character and respect for everyone whom they pretend to 'lead' but dont . No one is fooled .
It isnt about being happy or about getting what you want as a player and sure not as a parent : too much the parents ego gets involved .
But when a parent sees consistent negative situations and no fairness or improvement is to be found but yet a player is expected to show up and take it I dont know of anyone with self esteem who would do that , so whats to be gained ?
That's hopefully when you do become a "team jumper" rather than a victim of bad character.
|
| baseballwizkid |
Posted - 01/29/2009 : 14:48:40
You're right 743....Ive been apart of some very successful and some "not so" successful teams and there is always somebody not happy or making waves...you probably put all this into perspective with that one line.
|
| 743 |
Posted - 01/29/2009 : 11:08:53
think about it, how many kids or parents on any allstar or travel team you ever played with didn't have atleast one family that wasn't happy. |
| bballman |
Posted - 01/29/2009 : 08:48:47
123, without a doubt, 5 times in a year or even two years is too much. My kid doesn't get to play the position he wants, or the play time, I tell him to work harder and earn it. That is the lesson learned. When the season is over, you look around. 5x, it's not the team, it's the family and look out. Either they are going to be unhappy no matter where they go, or they have very bad judgement to do this that many times. |
| SportsDad |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 23:05:25
it seems the consensus(besides Sportsdad) is that its not a good thing,......
Never said it was a good thing or a bad thing..just stated that I thought it was a parent/player thing and those are the ones who make the decision..Just the way the whole issue is framed...He's a Jumper, it's the parents fault..blah blah blah...The "consensus" of the board has always been "Do what you think is right for your son", It the parents responsibility to make sure his son is in the "right place"...etc etc...Well just like life, you "go into something" thinking/hoping it's the best...if you come to a realization that this isn't the best, what really is best for everyone is that you move on.... Guess I've seen a lot, but coaches think it's a good thing when a marginable player leaves,but he's a jumper with bad parents and it's a bad thing when a "good" player leaves... No one could ever convince me that the "lessons learned" by a 9-14 year old kid sitting on a bench the whole year or playing all the time but not liking it,could equal the "lessons learned" from enjoying the Team your on. |
| pcc |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 22:29:48
5 teams......what is the common denominator on all 5 teams.
The Team Jumper's family that is unhappy on all 5. Enough said. |
| tae281 |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 17:35:14
The biggest issue I have in this situation is the fact that the other coach has spent the past 3 months recruiting this player but one could also argue that the parents could have stopped this at any point if they wanted to. BTW, the other team is not as talented as the one he just left so it wasn't a case of "greener pastures".
Sadly, I don't know if they will ever find a situation where all are happy. |
| baseballwizkid |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 16:08:49
Thanks for the input, it seems the consensus(besides Sportsdad) is that its not a good thing, and being a team jumper is not the kids fault, but the parents!
My opinion......Correct me if Im wrong, but Im not aware of any 9 or 10 year old(maybe outside the US) signing letters of intent or minor league contracts...let the kid play baseball, let him make some friendships, let him learn how to cope with difficult situations that may not be ideal, let him learn how to win and lose.....all of us could succeed in the "prefect fit/situation".....its the one's that arent in a perfect fit but learn and make the best of it, will be better off down the road....as we all know lately, life has its ups and downs, its not always perfect!(Anybody got a Economy Jump Starter out there, ill buy it for say $3.25) |
| BBall123 |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 15:34:59
You are so right in several statements Sportsdad, We joined a team and thought it would be a good idea,coaches seemed like good guys with "ALL" the boys best interest at heart,as practice unfolded it became apparent that the coaches were really only there for their sons and the one stud on the team.then the season started and we quickly became the teams bench every game.It became a wasted season for my son developmentaly and enjoyment wise. just before the the next to last game of this ( miserable) season we were asked to join a very good east cobb team for the remainder of the season as a starter in my sons normal position. we liked the coaches , people and team so we went. three years later on the same team , my son and our family has had a great time,he has developed as a player and blossomed in the east cobb program! Call it what you want I dont care, it was the right move for my son and I dont regret it at all (pissed off the group we left but thats just to bad). doing this definately has not taught my boy any bad traits, it was just the best move for us at the time.
doing it every year or 5 times in a season though??? I cant agree with that.
quote:
Originally posted by SportsDad
And that's how our "game" became a business.
maybe so...but I never hear about the coach who complains about the "worse" kid on his team, quiting to go play somewhere else...It's always seems to be that "so and so" is requiting one of my better players..so it always seem to me that the "coaches commitment" agruement is reserved for his better players...The bench warmer who quits to play on a team that he can start on is a "good thing" the stud who quits to play somewhere else that he/and or his parent think is a better place is an "immoral" ingrate who is being taught the "wrong" things... Everyone agrees that a parent should do what he thinks is best for his child...unless it negatively effect "my team"...
|
| bmoser |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 15:31:19
My son and I lived thru this very recently, and trust me, it detrated from the experience. The worst offenders were 3 of the Coaches sons, so not much we could do or say. We stuck it out and finished the drill.
quote:
Originally posted by 743
You can go watch a team practice 100 times but until you see them play you don't know what the players on that team might do when they strike out or miss a ball or make a bad play. If every kid on the team has a tantrum and starts crying or throws their glove or bat or breaks down after a bad play and your son didn't want to be around that or if a coach let it continue, you might want to pull your son off that team. Until a game is played and you see how the players react to winning and to losing you never know. I guess you request a couple of practice games before you commmit for a whole season.
|
| SportsDad |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 14:22:03
from his youth baseball experience, it was not a success.
maybe so...but I've seen and so have many parents seen 1)coaches who bring in kids at the end to win tournament, and kids who have been there all year long sit..2)coaches who tell kids one thing when the get them to commit, only to find a "better" player and the kid sits..3) How many post have we seen over the years about this or that and we just shake our heard with "How could a coach do that".. Yes the majority of coaches are fine outstanding people, but kids should, and do leave for a variety of reasons..You can have a kid on a team and the coach is great, etc, etc..but the kid is for whatever reason not getting the most out of it...maybe he's sitting because the other kids are just more advance...so that kid should not leave if an opportunity becomes available for him to play elsewhere? So what? he should be unhappily commited, instead of happily disloyal? As a coach, I would want all the kids on my team to "be happy"..If the best player on my team is unhappy because he feels a better oportunity for him is elsewhere, just like to kid who is maybe not quite as good, feels there is a better opportunity elsewhere. I would wish them the best of luck and actually encourage them to move on. It's not a question of "loyalty", it's an acknowledgement that parents/kids have the undeniable right to do what they feel best for themselves. In baseball utopia, every kid would be just happy and have wonderful experiences. If a parent/player feels that is somewhere "over the rainbow" regardless of what month it is, I think he should "go for it" Questioning or making a value judgement on somebodies loyalty is just plain wrong. Seen kids leave teams many times, their parents always expressed the reason for leaving was basically what they thought was best for their son..Depending on the skill of the child the coach was either "happy" or grumbled about the "disloyalty" of the parents. |
| AllStar |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 13:44:11
quote:
Originally posted by SportsDad
And that's how our "game" became a business.
maybe so...but I never hear about the coach who complains about the "worse" kid on his team, quiting to go play somewhere else...It's always seems to be that "so and so" is requiting one of my better players..so it always seem to me that the "coaches commitment" agruement is reserved for his better players...The bench warmer who quits to play on a team that he can start on is a "good thing" the stud who quits to play somewhere else that he/and or his parent think is a better place is an "immoral" ingrate who is being taught the "wrong" things... Everyone agrees that a parent should do what he thinks is best for his child...unless it negatively effect "my team"...
Actually, I've never seen any of the in-season stuff, just players (their folks?) switching every season. Maybe we're in different age groups. That said, if a kid learns, "You want loyalty, buy a dog," from his youth baseball experience, it was not a success. |
| SportsDad |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 13:07:20
And that's how our "game" became a business.
maybe so...but I never hear about the coach who complains about the "worse" kid on his team, quiting to go play somewhere else...It's always seems to be that "so and so" is requiting one of my better players..so it always seem to me that the "coaches commitment" agruement is reserved for his better players...The bench warmer who quits to play on a team that he can start on is a "good thing" the stud who quits to play somewhere else that he/and or his parent think is a better place is an "immoral" ingrate who is being taught the "wrong" things... Everyone agrees that a parent should do what he thinks is best for his child...unless it negatively effect "my team"... |
| 743 |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 10:38:47
You can go watch a team practice 100 times but until you see them play you don't know what the players on that team might do when they strike out or miss a ball or make a bad play. If every kid on the team has a tantrum and starts crying or throws their glove or bat or breaks down after a bad play and your son didn't want to be around that or if a coach let it continue, you might want to pull your son off that team. Until a game is played and you see how the players react to winning and to losing you never know. I guess you request a couple of practice games before you commmit for a whole season. |
| mrump |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 10:35:45
let's keep in mind it's the parents who should be held accountable for team jumping not the kid, however, the kid will unfortunately take the fall. i say everyone should have one excuse for jumping but after that their are no more excuses for jumping once the season begins. let's also keep in mind, these coaches that unethically seek out these kids while already playing for another team are wolves dressed in sheep's clothing, i see it all the time. they prey on the parents who seem to be unhappy, so now these coaches start telling the parents everything they want to hear as if the grass is greener on the other side...I CALL EM LIKE I SEE EM! |
| 743 |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 09:12:00
greglomax-makes an excellent point-I think once play starts in Feb or March, you have made a committment to the team to see the season through.
looking at my calendar today is January 28th, give the kid a break. Also I doubt anyone can afford money wise, to be on 5 different teams since late last summer.
|
| AllStar |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 09:02:52
quote:
Originally posted by SportsDad
If you want loyalty, buy a dog..
And that's how our "game" became a business. |
| bballman |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 09:01:35
I think a parent should do his research before he "commits" to a team. You should talk to other parents who have played on the team and other coaches who have played against them. You reallly can't totally know what you are getting into, but you can have a pretty good idea. If you don't know, don't commit until you do the research. If you didn't do the research before you made the commitment and you don't like it, it is your fault and you should live with it.
Same goes for coaches. If you accept a kid on your team and you find a better player later, that coach should not release the kid. He made a commitment.
Before we picked our summer team, I talked to a number of people who knew the coach and got a pretty good idea of his style prior to commiting. I made the commitment in September to play over the summer and will not back out - regardless of the circumstances (other than what I listed earlier).
Like Greg said, changing teams if your team ends their season early and you go to help another team is another story. Call me stubborn or old school or whatever, once you commit to a team, you will stick with it till the period you commited to is over. I want to teach my kid the value of this. Not teach him when things get tough, you leave.
SportsDad, a job situation is completely different. You don't go to work for a specific season. Kids don't get paid. If your you or your kid was not commited to my team and I knew that you would pack up and leave in the middle of the season if things didn't go your way, I would not want you on my team. |
