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baseballwizkid
10 Posts |
 Posted - 01/26/2009 : 22:01:37
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We have been told a story of a player(9-10yo) that has apparently been on 5 teams since late summer when they quit their summer travel team.
Is this a big deal or normal, eventually will they get a reputation and nobody will want the kid.
The player is apparently big for his age so he appears to be a dominating force at the plate and the mound but is an average travel ball player at best, especially when you factor in his lack of speed and lack of mobility in the field.
Your thoughts on Team Jumpers? |
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coachz
38 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 08:45:23
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| This is one of the many things that is great about "Travel Baseball." If you can't fill your position, you will chewed up and spit out. Parents blame coaches, coaches blame parents. Top quality players don't move around that much by accident, there is a deeper problem. Many players and parents just can't handle the heat of real "Travel" baseball, that's why we have rec ball. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 08:58:44
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whew, I thought you were talking about me for a minute there. It can be a big deal if jumping for the wrong reasons, and even if for teh right reasons it has a downside. My son played for 5 teams in 2008. His Spring travel team went 3-16, so chose not to do post season tourneys. We jumped to team 2 for 23 Summer tourney games. That team ended their season to play football, while my son is a year round baseballer. Thus, we jumped to team 3 for Fall ball. Then, when the Fall team was 1 tourney away from ending their Fall campaign, we jumped to a 4th team as a fill-in as needed where we did 3 more games.
(Leaving team 3 1 tourney early was agreed upon by his Coach). Our Spring 2009 team began practice in December of 2008, thus team 5.
quote:
Originally posted by baseballwizkid
We have been told a story of a player(9-10yo) that has apparently been on 5 teams since late summer when they quit their summer travel team.
Is this a big deal or normal, eventually will they get a reputation and nobody will want the kid.
The player is apparently big for his age so he appears to be a dominating force at the plate and the mound but is an average travel ball player at best, especially when you factor in his lack of speed and lack of mobility in the field.
Your thoughts on Team Jumpers?
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coachz
38 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 09:10:50
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| bmoser, what finally let you know "This is the right team for me?" Or is it? |
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BREAMKING
323 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 10:07:52
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| I would assume the dad is just running through coaches until he finds a good one that meets his expectations. When you find a good coach for gosh sakes stick with him. They are hard to find. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 10:57:38
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If you commit to a team, you should stick with it for the season unless there are really extenuating circumstances.
Continuing to play after your team has stopped isn't team jumping. Neither is playing for a different team the next season, although if a player plays for a different team every season it could say something about the player and the parents and their expectations.
Every season/age is different, so changing teams is not in and of itself a problem. The underlying reasons could be, though.
In BMoser's example, his son kept playing even though his teams had stopped, so I don't really see any "team-jumping" in there. If they pulled out during a season for "greener pastures", that might be a different story. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 11:34:54
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Time will tell. My son's happy, so that's job #1. He had fun with every team he's played with, but tired of bouncing around.
quote:
Originally posted by coachz
bmoser, what finally let you know "This is the right team for me?" Or is it?
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baseballwizkid
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 12:16:53
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We have found out a little more....
It sounds different than Bmoser talked about above.....Apparently this situation is that the Dad will commit to a team for a period of time, then jump ship when another opportunity comes around, I assuming to find greener pastures or what I was told last night is that the Dad likes the "recruiting" part of it. But again, its the size of the kid that makes coaches want him, until they see the lack of production, then it appears to go sour. |
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tae281
447 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 13:38:21
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baseballwizkid, what you hear is not entirely correct. I am the coach of the most recent team this kid played for and his dad was an assistant coach for me. The number of teams he's played for since last summer is correct but I did not recruit him, he was brought to the team by another player and we let him work out with us and they did commit to the team.
This player is not an average 9 yr old travel ball player, he is a very good hitter and is a good pitcher but does have slightly below average speed. Since he joined my team, he has been recruited by several teams and even by teams that invited us to scrimmage games which I think is low class. He did quit the team due to wanting something much more serious, it was not for a lack of production as he was our leading offensive player. |
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Baseballdad99
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 17:06:53
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| I have to agree with Allstar on this one. If you make a commitment to a team you should stick it out. That's what makes travel baseball so great. If you don't like what goes on this year find another team next year. If you've been on five teams in less than a year there's definitely something wrong. There is a easy way to put a stop to this. As a coach I would not release him from the team. When we get calls from dads wanting to jump teams the first thing we do is call the other coachs, to find out what's going on. Sometimes it's just a personality conflict that can not be resolved. Unfortunately this usually hurts the kid. Because coaches start talking and eventually nobody will coach that kid. If the coaches are the problem. Find a new coach and move on. If you stay positive the kid won't know the difference. Then the following year you can find new team. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 18:46:32
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I am a believer in commitment. If you tell a team you will play for them, you do it - even if a better offer comes up. PERIOD. You are teaching the kid a very negative thing. Not only that, but you are letting the team you committed to down. I just don't think this is a good thing at all.
My son had a similar thing happen to him this fall. The team we had been playing on for 3 years disbanded after the 14u season. We committed to play on a 15u fall team - just for the fall. When we got an offer to play for a different team for next summer, they wanted us to play with them on Sundays and commit that once we agreed to play with them, we wouldn't change our minds later. I told him that once we gave our word, we would not back out. But, I could not commit to playing every Sunday with them. I let him know we had already committed to playing with the other team in the fall and if there was a conflct, we would be playing with the fall team. We gave our word there first.
JMO, you make a promise, you stick to it under any circumstance (other than an unethical or abuseive coach).
In the above situation, this kid and his dad committed to tae281 and left just because he got a better offer. If he had been on 4 teams prior to that, he should have know better what he was getting into. No excuse for that and I would stay away from the family. |
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tfb
34 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 21:46:18
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| Make sure you get a committment (cold hard cash). If he leaves at least you can put his money to good use for your loyal players. |
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 23:22:21
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I think once play starts in Feb or March, you have made a committment to the team to see the season through. I do realize there are certain circumstance that can be the exception to the rule, but for the most part I think this is the what you signed up for. Now if your team choses to end their season in mid June and you pick up with a team to play in July, that is a different story. I have had a kid jump teams in the middle of the season because they thought it was a better team. I said I would not hold any hard feelings, but that player would never play for me again. That was a bridge they burned.
I have seen several players that come to mind that have burned a lot of bridges this way and wonder why they don't get recruited to better teams once they reach 12 or 13.
You reap what you sow. |
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SportsDad
293 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 01:50:01
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| even if a better offer comes up. PERIOD. well I guess it depends on what a "better offer" is..and that is certainly up for interpertation. But, than as a parent, why should I "waste" a season if my son has a place to play that would improve his skills..Jump... it's sort of like hiring a person(cost), training them(cost) and than he leaves for a better opportunity...Why would any employer have a right to bemoan about commitment, if a man/women was leaving to better themselves...Seen a lot of "jumpers" in my day...if a parent/kid thinks the grass is greener on the other side, than why would I want to stop him..If you want loyalty, buy a dog.. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 07:59:23
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| Someone above posted "If you make a commitment to a team you should stick it out." That's what makes travel baseball so great." Okay lets put the shoe on the other foot. Some travel teams pick up new kids before their season is over and release their weaker kids? I think that is 100% wrong. You make a commitment to a team as a coach you should stick with that team and all the players, but it doesnt always happen. It's alot easier to pick up new kids every year and fill your weak spots instead of building up your weaker players. That is what travel baseball is suppose to be about getting better, not winning every tournament out there. You don't know how a coach is going to coach until you play in a few tournaments with him and see his coaching style, you don't know how he runs practices until you watch him practice. Coaches can tell you what you want to hear, but until you see them in action you never know. I don't think there is a problem leaving a team if you feel the coach is not allowing your son to improve, not matter what time of the season it is. Teams that have big turnover every season tell you alot about the coach. Fall seasons are great to see if your son meshes with other kids and the coaching style of the head coach. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 09:01:35
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I think a parent should do his research before he "commits" to a team. You should talk to other parents who have played on the team and other coaches who have played against them. You reallly can't totally know what you are getting into, but you can have a pretty good idea. If you don't know, don't commit until you do the research. If you didn't do the research before you made the commitment and you don't like it, it is your fault and you should live with it.
Same goes for coaches. If you accept a kid on your team and you find a better player later, that coach should not release the kid. He made a commitment.
Before we picked our summer team, I talked to a number of people who knew the coach and got a pretty good idea of his style prior to commiting. I made the commitment in September to play over the summer and will not back out - regardless of the circumstances (other than what I listed earlier).
Like Greg said, changing teams if your team ends their season early and you go to help another team is another story. Call me stubborn or old school or whatever, once you commit to a team, you will stick with it till the period you commited to is over. I want to teach my kid the value of this. Not teach him when things get tough, you leave.
SportsDad, a job situation is completely different. You don't go to work for a specific season. Kids don't get paid. If your you or your kid was not commited to my team and I knew that you would pack up and leave in the middle of the season if things didn't go your way, I would not want you on my team. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 09:02:52
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quote:
Originally posted by SportsDad
If you want loyalty, buy a dog..
And that's how our "game" became a business. |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 09:12:00
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greglomax-makes an excellent point-I think once play starts in Feb or March, you have made a committment to the team to see the season through.
looking at my calendar today is January 28th, give the kid a break. Also I doubt anyone can afford money wise, to be on 5 different teams since late last summer.
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mrump
8 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 10:35:45
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| let's keep in mind it's the parents who should be held accountable for team jumping not the kid, however, the kid will unfortunately take the fall. i say everyone should have one excuse for jumping but after that their are no more excuses for jumping once the season begins. let's also keep in mind, these coaches that unethically seek out these kids while already playing for another team are wolves dressed in sheep's clothing, i see it all the time. they prey on the parents who seem to be unhappy, so now these coaches start telling the parents everything they want to hear as if the grass is greener on the other side...I CALL EM LIKE I SEE EM! |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 10:38:47
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| You can go watch a team practice 100 times but until you see them play you don't know what the players on that team might do when they strike out or miss a ball or make a bad play. If every kid on the team has a tantrum and starts crying or throws their glove or bat or breaks down after a bad play and your son didn't want to be around that or if a coach let it continue, you might want to pull your son off that team. Until a game is played and you see how the players react to winning and to losing you never know. I guess you request a couple of practice games before you commmit for a whole season. |
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SportsDad
293 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 13:07:20
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And that's how our "game" became a business.
maybe so...but I never hear about the coach who complains about the "worse" kid on his team, quiting to go play somewhere else...It's always seems to be that "so and so" is requiting one of my better players..so it always seem to me that the "coaches commitment" agruement is reserved for his better players...The bench warmer who quits to play on a team that he can start on is a "good thing" the stud who quits to play somewhere else that he/and or his parent think is a better place is an "immoral" ingrate who is being taught the "wrong" things... Everyone agrees that a parent should do what he thinks is best for his child...unless it negatively effect "my team"... |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 13:44:11
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quote:
Originally posted by SportsDad
And that's how our "game" became a business.
maybe so...but I never hear about the coach who complains about the "worse" kid on his team, quiting to go play somewhere else...It's always seems to be that "so and so" is requiting one of my better players..so it always seem to me that the "coaches commitment" agruement is reserved for his better players...The bench warmer who quits to play on a team that he can start on is a "good thing" the stud who quits to play somewhere else that he/and or his parent think is a better place is an "immoral" ingrate who is being taught the "wrong" things... Everyone agrees that a parent should do what he thinks is best for his child...unless it negatively effect "my team"...
Actually, I've never seen any of the in-season stuff, just players (their folks?) switching every season. Maybe we're in different age groups. That said, if a kid learns, "You want loyalty, buy a dog," from his youth baseball experience, it was not a success. |
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SportsDad
293 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 14:22:03
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from his youth baseball experience, it was not a success.
maybe so...but I've seen and so have many parents seen 1)coaches who bring in kids at the end to win tournament, and kids who have been there all year long sit..2)coaches who tell kids one thing when the get them to commit, only to find a "better" player and the kid sits..3) How many post have we seen over the years about this or that and we just shake our heard with "How could a coach do that".. Yes the majority of coaches are fine outstanding people, but kids should, and do leave for a variety of reasons..You can have a kid on a team and the coach is great, etc, etc..but the kid is for whatever reason not getting the most out of it...maybe he's sitting because the other kids are just more advance...so that kid should not leave if an opportunity becomes available for him to play elsewhere? So what? he should be unhappily commited, instead of happily disloyal? As a coach, I would want all the kids on my team to "be happy"..If the best player on my team is unhappy because he feels a better oportunity for him is elsewhere, just like to kid who is maybe not quite as good, feels there is a better opportunity elsewhere. I would wish them the best of luck and actually encourage them to move on. It's not a question of "loyalty", it's an acknowledgement that parents/kids have the undeniable right to do what they feel best for themselves. In baseball utopia, every kid would be just happy and have wonderful experiences. If a parent/player feels that is somewhere "over the rainbow" regardless of what month it is, I think he should "go for it" Questioning or making a value judgement on somebodies loyalty is just plain wrong. Seen kids leave teams many times, their parents always expressed the reason for leaving was basically what they thought was best for their son..Depending on the skill of the child the coach was either "happy" or grumbled about the "disloyalty" of the parents. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 15:31:19
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My son and I lived thru this very recently, and trust me, it detrated from the experience. The worst offenders were 3 of the Coaches sons, so not much we could do or say. We stuck it out and finished the drill.
quote:
Originally posted by 743
You can go watch a team practice 100 times but until you see them play you don't know what the players on that team might do when they strike out or miss a ball or make a bad play. If every kid on the team has a tantrum and starts crying or throws their glove or bat or breaks down after a bad play and your son didn't want to be around that or if a coach let it continue, you might want to pull your son off that team. Until a game is played and you see how the players react to winning and to losing you never know. I guess you request a couple of practice games before you commmit for a whole season.
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 15:34:59
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You are so right in several statements Sportsdad, We joined a team and thought it would be a good idea,coaches seemed like good guys with "ALL" the boys best interest at heart,as practice unfolded it became apparent that the coaches were really only there for their sons and the one stud on the team.then the season started and we quickly became the teams bench every game.It became a wasted season for my son developmentaly and enjoyment wise. just before the the next to last game of this ( miserable) season we were asked to join a very good east cobb team for the remainder of the season as a starter in my sons normal position. we liked the coaches , people and team so we went. three years later on the same team , my son and our family has had a great time,he has developed as a player and blossomed in the east cobb program! Call it what you want I dont care, it was the right move for my son and I dont regret it at all (pissed off the group we left but thats just to bad). doing this definately has not taught my boy any bad traits, it was just the best move for us at the time.
doing it every year or 5 times in a season though??? I cant agree with that.
quote:
Originally posted by SportsDad
And that's how our "game" became a business.
maybe so...but I never hear about the coach who complains about the "worse" kid on his team, quiting to go play somewhere else...It's always seems to be that "so and so" is requiting one of my better players..so it always seem to me that the "coaches commitment" agruement is reserved for his better players...The bench warmer who quits to play on a team that he can start on is a "good thing" the stud who quits to play somewhere else that he/and or his parent think is a better place is an "immoral" ingrate who is being taught the "wrong" things... Everyone agrees that a parent should do what he thinks is best for his child...unless it negatively effect "my team"...
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baseballwizkid
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 16:08:49
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Thanks for the input, it seems the consensus(besides Sportsdad) is that its not a good thing, and being a team jumper is not the kids fault, but the parents!
My opinion......Correct me if Im wrong, but Im not aware of any 9 or 10 year old(maybe outside the US) signing letters of intent or minor league contracts...let the kid play baseball, let him make some friendships, let him learn how to cope with difficult situations that may not be ideal, let him learn how to win and lose.....all of us could succeed in the "prefect fit/situation".....its the one's that arent in a perfect fit but learn and make the best of it, will be better off down the road....as we all know lately, life has its ups and downs, its not always perfect!(Anybody got a Economy Jump Starter out there, ill buy it for say $3.25) |
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"Team Jumper"
