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highcheese99
14 Posts |
 Posted - 08/11/2010 : 10:42:45
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For experienced coaches and parents.
Soon to be first year nine year old travel what is the best number of players for each age group in travel baseball.
8-
9-
10-
11-
12-
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17- |
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643mom5
5 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 11:31:18
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| I think 12 is a good number for ages 8u-12u. When you get into the higher ages you will notice you have kids that all they do is pitch so you will have more players. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 11:47:55
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I would say:
8-11, 12 players
12-14, 14 players
15-18, 17 to 18 players
Ages 15-18 could be more if you have the philosophy of carrying a certain number of pitchers only. However, it should be clearly communicated that the player will be a pitcher only.
Also, the reason I say 17-18 for the older group is that pitchers begin to throw harder and have more strain on the arm, requiring more rest before they get back on the field. Even if you are a two way player, if you are throwing 80mph plus and are throwing between 80 & 100 pitches in an outing, you will be out for that day and the next - at least. Not back on the mound without at least 4 days rest. You wind up with several guys unable to pitch or play in the field at any given time.
The younger kids don't tax their arms as much with the lower velocities and will usually not throw as many pitches (at least they shouldn't) and can come back to play the field quicker. Therefore you don't need as many players. |
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MadSkills
128 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 11:54:17
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| From 8U-12U, a roster of 12 is too many. I think in most cases 11 is the right number but it is important that everyone know their role on the team first. |
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gafan
66 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 12:18:47
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| 11 seems perfect for younger ages... in our experience- with 12 there are some mad parents when their son doesn't play enough (no matter what the skill level) we only had 10 last year and ran into a couple of tourneys where we had to add kids just for the weekend when players were out of town. |
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BREAMKING
323 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 12:46:54
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| I vote 11 is the best. Anything more than 12 under 12yrs old would throw up a red flag to me. I guess you have to decide if more than that. What is more important to the parent and kid winning or developing. Every little kid on little league size diamond should get many opportunities but if major team I could see the pressure to win and carry more but keep in mind you are gonna have a lot of them sitting and if you bat all the players not as many at bats per year also. More than 12 I would think it would be hard to keep everybody happy at this age. Kids need to play the game. |
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morgamania
39 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 13:13:14
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In my experience I would say never more than 12 until you get to the point of having POs (Pitcher Only) in the older age groups. My magic number is 11 because then you only have 2 on the bench defensively at any time. Easier to get everyone in the game and bat the full lineup with plenty of ABs for all.
My other favorite number is 10. In that way if a ringer moves into town, someone leaves a team or gets cut, etc., you can still add him later in the season without causing dissention among the team. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 13:15:37
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| 11 until 13U, then you start seeing a lot of injuries and need more. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 13:31:07
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I think it depends on the versatility of the players you have, the number of games you plan to play, and the level of play you are competing at.
I have always used the rule of thumb of carrying the same # of players as the age group (9u and under carry 10) you are playing in.
8u - 10
9u - 10
10u - 10
11u - 11
12u - 12
13u - 13
14u - 14
15-17u 15-17 depending on the PO's carried.
There are always exceptions but this has always been a good rule of thumb. |
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highcheese99
14 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 13:54:30
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I would say:
8-11, 12 players
12-14, 14 players
15-18, 17 to 18 players
Ages 15-18 could be more if you have the philosophy of carrying a certain number of pitchers only. However, it should be clearly communicated that the player will be a pitcher only.
Also, the reason I say 17-18 for the older group is that pitchers begin to throw harder and have more strain on the arm, requiring more rest before they get back on the field. Even if you are a two way player, if you are throwing 80mph plus and are throwing between 80 & 100 pitches in an outing, you will be out for that day and the next - at least. Not back on the mound without at least 4 days rest. You wind up with several guys unable to pitch or play in the field at any given time.
The younger kids don't tax their arms as much with the lower velocities and will usually not throw as many pitches (at least they shouldn't) and can come back to play the field quicker. Therefore you don't need as many players.
14 players at 12U, I bet at cooperstown you have kids that dont even get to play with 14 on a roster. |
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highcheese
71 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 14:54:14
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| 12 is a good number for 12 and under. We are talking about kids here who get sick, have to go out of town, get injured, and even get in a slump. If you care about your kids arms you will carry 12. Have the next pitcher who is coming in warming up on the sidelines instead of coming in from center or shortstop cold. Guaranteed you will have better success and fewer injuries. If you have a coach worth his salt and is worried about teaching the game you will have a margin of 10-15 at bats between the top and bottom guy come the end of the year. If that makes johnnies parents mad then they have bigger issues. Starting at 13 the field changes size, innings and time of game changes, and so do the physical properties of the kids. Guess what, the strategies of the game change from a coaching standpoint too. Situational base running, pinch hitting, defensive subs, you may even run 3 pitchers out there to close out an inning and keep the bleeding to a minimum. From puberty on these guys really learn how to compete and start to become team players. To do this you need more players, add a few more each year. Ridiculous to pigeon hole your kid as a pitcher only at 13 and 14u, doing him a disservice, keep him learning multiple positions. If that means playing at a different organization for more reps then do that. One of the biggest keys with a roster size is telling the players and parents how you are going to handle the roster. If coaches do not communicate this then johnny and parents get PO'd and create false expectations and the rants and raves start. There is enough baseball to be had for everyone. Keep it real. |
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coach0512
123 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 15:06:18
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11 until the age of 13.
Max you will sit, then, is 2 and you usually have a kid who can't play a tourney for one reason or another , so you end up with 10 at the game with 1 sitting. Works the best. Can't stand having 12 and sometimes sitting 3, usually sitting 2, and with 10 you usually end up playing every kid the whole game in 100 degree heat for 2 games. One injury and you're playing shorthanded.
At 13U you start adding POs so 13+ works best. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 16:29:11
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I don't think it has to do with PO to have extra kids. I think it has a lot to do with arm care for your pitchers. Some of the biggest overuse problems with youth baseball are taking a kid directly out of a position and putting him on the bump, taking a kid off the bump and putting him back in a position and - related to that - not having a kid warm up enough before he pitches. If you run your team right, you will have your starting pitcher and whoever you plan to use as the relief guy out of the game, getting warmed up. That means you have to have at least 10. Your starting pitcher should really rest up during the next game - as well as the relief guy depending on how many pitches he threw. Then you have your starter and reliever out for the following game in addition to at least the starter from the previous game. That is 2 guys out for the second game (reliever for that game & starter from last game). That means you have at least 11 needed at a minimum. You should really have a second catcher to give your catcher a rest every other game. That makes 12. What if someone gets injured? or someone misses a tournament? What about having a player on the bench to pinch run for the pitcher or catcher? It is not unreasonable to carry a roster of 13 or 14 and allow everyone to get play time - if you do things the right way.
I think most coaches do not follow the above plan. The problem is, your best pitcher is usually one of your best fielders - so you don't want to sit him out to get rest from pitching or sit him out to warm up to relieve. I know, it happened with my son. If you are running your team in a fashion that gives your pitchers proper rest - starting at 12 and and especially when they reach HS age - you will need the extra players that everyone says you don't need.
Every kid has a role. Every kid has a place on the team. You can't stop parents from complaining. If they are not complaining about play time, they will complain about what position their kid plays. Don't worry about that. There will always be unhappy people. Run your team the right way, which is development of the kids and taking care of their health. Not running the team to make everyone happy at the expense of the health of the kids arms.
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oldschooldad
203 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 16:51:39
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Great question!
Too many = less playing time
too few = pitching shortage and hard to overcome injuries
at 12U I like to see no more than 11. Rest the next player to go in as a pitcher and limit the time on the bench. The more players also helps in team budget issues but most parents I know would rather write a big check if Jr. playing more. |
Edited by - oldschooldad on 08/11/2010 18:35:22 |
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highcheese
71 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 17:33:38
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| The PO'd I was referring to above was pis... off, not pitcher only. Sorry for the confusion.If people really sit back and take a look at what it takes to be a competitive travel team they should end up taking more players. Tell me it is ok to take ten kids and play 5-7 games on a weekend. you can't. Sure it can be done and I have done it. Some worn out kids come monday. If you teach the game right as mentioned above, more team members are better than fewer. |
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Tball
142 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 18:53:12
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If you are going to Cooperstown you better have at least 12 and they need to be able to pitch. |
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LeftyBat
160 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 01:10:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Tball
If you are going to Cooperstown you better have at least 12 and they need to be able to pitch.
But quite a few teams carry 11-12 during the spring and add a player or two for cooperstown, which likely makes more sense as you don't want to have too many boys on the team all season sitting on the bench just so you can have enough for your end of season tourney... |
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tae281
447 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 09:09:17
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I prefer to carry 10 with a full time alternate, batting 11 on Sundays can be challenging especially if you have a few kids struggling at the plate. It seems like forever for you get through your batting order with 12 and the next thing you know it's the 5th inning and your at #9 in your order.
Problem with the full time alternate has been that player usually gets picked up by another travel team, happened to me twice last season. |
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homer
2 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 09:27:39
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This question requires an "it depends" kind of answer. In addition to the age of the team, what are your goals for the season? What kind of schedule will you keep? What skill level do you have amongst roster players? How good of a game day coach are you (are you capable of frequent substitutions during games)? So the answer really is, carry as many players as you can while developing all players. If all players have a role that they're happy with and are continuing to improve over the course of the season, then you've got the right number. In most cases that's 11 or 12 until 13U season then you add a player or two each year.
Beware of numbers significantly higher than the numbers posted in the comments in this forum for each age group. It seems every year there's a team or two around that try to load up a team with way too many players so they can fluff up their budget. This never ends well for a few players on these teams. They don't get attention from the coaches/instructors and don't get much playing time. They wore the uniform on game day but rarely got to show their stuff when it mattered. Last year I saw a 15U team in Atlanta with 20 on the roster! No doubt there were some very unhappy parents on that team.
I saw an earlier posting about POs at 13yo. Please don't tell me someone is doing that to kids! The youngest POs should be 15 and then only if they really can't hit or field and understand going into the season that PO is their role. Also, as a PO they must get separate pitching instruction regularly and be a part of the rotation no matter what. If a PO is getting hammered every time he steps on the mound then either cut him or keep working with him. Don't just sit him on the bench to ride out the season. |
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zwndad
170 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 11:09:10
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| At 12 or younger, it depends on what kind of team you are. If you play tournament-only, I think you will regret having less than 12 because of the number of games in a weekend, especially in June or July. Eventually, you will run into arm issues, even at the younger ages. If you play mostly in a league (GGBL, Lanier, NWGA), then I think that 11 is ideal for 12 or younger because the games are more spread out. |
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tae281
447 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 12:04:32
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quote:
Originally posted by zwndad
At 12 or younger, it depends on what kind of team you are. If you play tournament-only, I think you will regret having less than 12 because of the number of games in a weekend, especially in June or July. Eventually, you will run into arm issues, even at the younger ages. If you play mostly in a league (GGBL, Lanier, NWGA), then I think that 11 is ideal for 12 or younger because the games are more spread out.
If your team has 8 kids that pitch then it doesn't matter, tournament teams might play 22-26 innings if they reach the championship so that's roughly 3 innings a weekend. It's been my experience that my 7-8 pitchers didn't get enough work in each weekend even if we reached the ship. |
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zwndad
170 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 12:35:09
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| Totally agree with tae281. Good point. |
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tajacket
26 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2010 : 11:31:25
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I have found this to be a complex formula:
if n = the number of players I decide to carry, then n+1 is the correct number according to the parents of each player I cut, and n-1 is the correct number according the parents of each player who is not getting enough playing time due to my selection of some other player who is unfairly receiving that playing time.
such is life |
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DoubleD
33 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2010 : 19:05:26
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12 at 12 years old, 13 at 13 years old, 14 at 14 years old, etc.
I hear stories of 16-20 kids being projected on some 14U teams. WHY?
What does a kid learn by sitting on the bench?
The team may be (on paper) one of the top teams in the country but only 9 are are in the field at the same time. Kids learn and get better at the game by practicing and then applying what they learned in practice with pressure added into the situation. Some kids practice great but can't make the plays in pressure situations.
Pitcher only at 14U is not a good idea if you want a kid to develop.
Who knows what he might end up being if only given the reps. Unless your kid is Jason Heyward, the scouts are not looking at 14 year old kids because are still growing and learning the game!
Parents pay alot of money to be on an 'elite' team and drive great distances as well. If a kids sits on the bench and never gets the needed reps in order to develop it's not much of a return on investment in my humble opinion.
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2010 : 10:02:32
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I firmly believe that having any players over 14 is just covering the "just in case" events. Even playing 85 games between May 1st and August 5th does not offer enough player wear and tear to require a coach to "have" to play other players. Many tournaments, during that time, play a game a day during the week and give players plenty of rest between to be ready the next day.
No matter what tournament or level you play, only 9 players can be on the field at the same time. What occurs is you have 2 or 3 players that get almost all the reps. Another 4-5 players that get "most" of the reps (2/3rd). A third set that rotate in and out and get about 1/3 of the reps, and a final group that gets very few reps. This last group are many times PO's and unless the team has a specific pitching rotation, where they are on a regular regiment, they don't get the reps they need to continue to develop. The teams that do manage it better will have very few position players pitching to ensure their PO's get the right work. |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2010 : 14:49:57
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| If you have 13 I can almost guarantee atleast one will quit before the season is over. |
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Topic |
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What is the best Number of players for travel
