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crzdirector
48 Posts |
 Posted - 08/02/2012 : 13:34:02
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My son is 9 (4/25/03). He played up as a 7 to 9u and as an 8 to 10u. Both seasons on a competitive aa team (moved up to aaa at the end of this season). He hit leadoff for the majority of both seasons and hit around .450 each season. Far from a superstar but a solid contributor and played some good defense at second and in the outfield.
He's 23 months younger than our two oldest players. I'm debating keeping him back and playing another season of 10u ball. He's never actually played with kids his age so I have no measuring stick as to his skill level within his peer group.
I'm sure some of you have gone through this up/down discussion in your homes. I'm just looking for some opinions and how you made your decisions.
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PeachFuzz
76 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 14:11:01
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| If he is playing up 2 years at the AAA level and he is hitting a true .450, then he is obviously a pretty good ball player. If he has that kind of talent, I would recommend contacting the 10U ECB Astros and see about getting him a private workout. I would try to get away from playing up 2 years. The social skills, maturity level, interests, etc are likely to be very different between a 10 and 12 yr old...or an 11 and 13 yr old. I'm sure you can find teams 1 year up that will sufficiently challenge your player. |
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TheNatural
37 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 14:38:57
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| Don't worry it will all even out when he gets older. Let him play in the leauge where his classmates are. |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 15:37:13
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| You play up if you aren't being challenged in your age group or you can't find a team in your age group that competes at the level you want. When you hit the 11u and up ages, kids start to grow and you see physical age bodies that are 1 to 3 years older than a kid's calendar age. Personally, I would not let my son play up unless he had a physical age body and was at least average to above average size for the age classification. It won't be long before they will have to compete in high school against kids 3-4 years older anyway. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 15:57:30
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Not sure I understand the logic of playing up on a lower level team. If he was playing most of the time on a AA team, the skill level there may have been lower than a major team at his own age group. I would recommend trying to get on a major level team in his own age group and see how he does. Play the best competition he can possibly play and still do well. If the competition and play isn't enough of a challenge at the major level in his own age group, then move up an age and try to play on a major level team at that age group.
No sense in playing up on a lower level team, especially a AA team. That's just my opinion though. |
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LilBigTown
115 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 16:21:44
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| Playing up is a great thing for those that can. Each age the kids are a little bigger, stronger and faster.If he finishes season top 3 on his current team statistically and is having fun then continue at 10. Some parents dont have the means or time to play elite major travel and to play on a team of that caliber at 10 matters not (astros) burnout or if he doesnt get the reps needed he may lose interest. If playing up was not important than elite major teams wouldnt schedule major tournys with older age group. Just ask Astros, 643, Braves, Phenom Nation etc.. how many tournys they played up in this past year. Baseball unlike other sports is played 1 batter against 1 pithcher, 1 infielder against 1 groound ball, 1 base runner against 1 catcher really helps to expose a kids weakness when playing older kids. Only real concern I have from your post is who kept his batting avg. dad or coach. Older kids play the game at a faster pace an really could help baseball iq. My son has played up since 6 and im not sure he knows any different but at 12 he will play again, puberty hits and some go from boys to full grown men at major level not sure at AA or AAA its that big of difference.The main thing is definetly to have fun so he will want to play next year. See how many 11u Stros are on 12u an how many 12u Stros make 13u Stros quite interesting. Where you play this year not near as important as where you play next year. Who knows research Bryce Harper and see if he played up..... Ought to be great debate! |
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crzdirector
48 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 16:33:28
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We live in Athens so ECB is not an option either logistically or financially. He's only playing one year up technically but his bday is only one week short of the age date so he would be a super young 10u kid playing this year.
I'm limited with team options in my area. My ex wife and I both work and the logistics of getting to gwinnett or loganville or gainesville just isn't possible. I've had him work out with a couple of rising 10u teams the last few weeks and his skill level is clearly above the other kids his age but I think that's a function of not only his talent but playing with older kids. The one thing I really noticed was that he was actually a "normal" sized kid when he's with his peers.
I'm not a huge fan of my 4th grader playing with middle school kids from an emotional and social level but at the same time I want him to be challenged. He's a mature kid but he is the baby of the group by a mile.
We have a group that wants him to play that have sponsors that will virtually allow him to play for free this season. I'm thinking of going that option and investing what we would have spent on team fees into lessons (again his mother and I have very modest means and have never been able to get him private instruction).
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LilBigTown
115 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 07:54:02
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| My son played with Middle schoolers in 4th grade and kids if they can play will adjust fast. If he goes on to play High School, College, or further he will definetly play up. The most valuable for him other than seeing great pitching every day is the fact that when playing up my son learned lots of positions really hard to beat out 7th grade ss, but after a few years it was accomplished. But now he has become great center fielder which he never could have done playing with kids his own age. The biggest argument with kids playing up is from dads that want thier son to be star, in my opinion. Just remember you always want your son to in middle of the pecking order neverer the best kid on the team an never the worst, then he will be pushed from both sides to develope. Prepare yourself to get alot of grief if you play up especially from Grandparents . |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 09:05:53
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quote:
Originally posted by LilBigTown
Some parents dont have the means or time to play elite major travel and to play on a team of that caliber at 10 matters not (astros) burnout or if he doesnt get the reps needed he may lose interest. If playing up was not important than elite major teams wouldnt schedule major tournys with older age group. Just ask Astros, 643, Braves, Phenom Nation etc.. how many tournys they played up in this past year.
1st of all, you don't have to play for the Astros to play against the Astros, or play against the teams they play. There are plenty of teams in North Georgia that you can play a major schedule without spending a ton of money. You don't have to travel all over the country to do that.
Secondly, the teams you mention all play up. My son played for one of the teams mentioned and they always played tournaments up an age group. However, the tournaments they played all involved the top competition in that age group. When he was 15 and played in 16,17 and 18u tournaments, they didn't play AA or even AAA teams. They played the best at those older age groups.
My point was that playing 2 age groups up for a AA team is probably no better than playing against the best at your own age group. You don't have to play ON the best team, but you should play AGAINST the best teams. |
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crzdirector
48 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 09:28:27
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He has definitely learned some different skills playing with older kids. I'm now stuck in a different quandry where the team we played with last year is breaking apart (the 4 best kids left tried out for a aaa/major squad). Now its an even bigger pain in the butt, I don't really have another good local 11u option, the best 10u options are 45 minutes-hour away and the local 10u option, he's clearly at the top of the food chain.
I love small town living but it sucks *** when it comes to figuring this mess out lol. Thanks so much for all the input guys, my brain is churning and I'm reaching out to and considering things that I hadn't before. |
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nastycurve
244 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 11:34:54
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I would say definitely play up. I've got a 14 year old(15 this year) and an 11 year old, and at practice I would put the younger son out there in the same drills as the older boys, nothing softer, nothing easier, suprisingly, he brought his game way up and had absolutley no fear. The only thing he lacked in was his strength, but I expect that being 4 years younger. His speed was good, he could track a ball as good as anyone and he had good baseball IQ. I even let him fill in during the fall if we were a player short and it did wonders for him, and the older kids.
When he went back down to his age group, he was phenomenal... After running and throwing on the HS field, the smaller field felt like nothing(his words). So I would say leave him up, as it will increase his development and when he does finally get to middle and high school, he will be used to it and it will be no big deal. And just think, at one point, he will be the older kid on the field, and then the fun really starts. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 11:50:51
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quote:
Originally posted by LilBigTown
The biggest argument with kids playing up is from dads that want thier son to be star, in my opinion.
I think that's a pretty bold and condesending comment. You think all the Astro players play their age group because they wouldn't be a star playing up? Come on LilBigTown, ANYONE (no matter how good they are) can find a team in their own age group that they wouldn't be the best on. Besides, it's not how you stack up against your own teammates, it's about how you stack up to the competition you play.
If your son is a pitcher, and is the best pitcher on the team, so what? How does he pitch against the top competition there is out there? In his age group or above. If he is a fielder, how does he hit against the best pitchers out there? That's all that matters.
As you said in an earlier post:
quote:
Originally posted by LilBigTown
Baseball unlike other sports is played 1 batter against 1 pithcher, 1 infielder against 1 groound ball, 1 base runner against 1 catcher
My son has always played on teams that were his own age group. But his teams have always played against the best, in their age group and the best in older age groups. He has always wanted to face the best. He pitched varsity as a freshman in a 5A school. Never backed down from a challenge, if fact always wanted the challenge. I didn't care if he was a star or not. Any time I asked him what team he wanted to play on (when it came time to change teams), his only comment was - "which ever team is best". He wanted to play with teammates that were good. He never wanted to be the best on a team. He didn't care, because he had the confidence that whatever team he was on, he was good enough to play. No matter how good the other players were.
Playing up has nothing to do with it. It all has to do with who you play against. I'll say it again. If you're playing a AA 10u team, they may not be nearly as good as an 8u major/elite team. Now, if you're playing against a major/elite 10u team, now that's saying something. It's all about who you play and how good they are, not what age they are. |
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PeachFuzz
76 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 11:54:41
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I would suggest being a little careful putting young kids on a 60/90 field with older kids. For the most part, if the kid is talented it probably will make him elevate him game (which is a good thing). The one word of caution (because I witnessed this myself)...The combination of a younger kid trying to hang with and impress the older kids on the bigger field adds the risk of a serious arm injury. A 5th grade kid trying to throw from middle/deep OF to home or from 3rd to 1st can hurt himself if he trys to do too much. I actually saw a rising 6 grader break a bone in his arm trying to throw home from middle/deep CF. The kid was a pretty good player too. He was just a little too small and not physically developed enough to be doing that.
Again, its great to challenge them and give them a leg up...just be aware of the potential hazards. |
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nastycurve
244 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 13:19:53
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Definitely keep an eye on injury... an outfield throw is an outfield throw though... funny thing, a ball was hit in the gap and got to the gate, he got to the ball a split second before the center fielder(who was 14 and has a crazy arm), he then gave the ball to the CF to throw in.
When he plays infield with us(rarely), he's at second base which is a shorter throw than anywhere on the field. With his own group, he pitches, catches, plays SS and 3B, so his 100+ft throw from home to second is really no different than a lazy pop-fly to the cut off man. |
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LilBigTown
115 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 14:30:36
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| In my opinion AAA 12u pitcher is equal or better than 10 u major pitcher. Thats exactly what i mean if u play 2 yrs up you may not need to play major. The difference in elite major (astros) and other teams is their 12th man is better than your best kid at AAA. I agree you need to play best compitition but if you live 80 miles from Atlanta and have limited resources like I do than playing up is eaqual to playing elite major. It might not be but its close enough for me and has really helped my son. Now at 12 we were able to walk on field an make elite major so we will see if it helped or not. All astro players are stars anywhere thats might pioint. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 16:12:38
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quote:
Originally posted by LilBigTown
In my opinion AAA 12u pitcher is equal or better than 10 u major pitcher. Thats exactly what i mean if u play 2 yrs up you may not need to play major. The difference in elite major (astros) and other teams is their 12th man is better than your best kid at AAA. I agree you need to play best compitition but if you live 80 miles from Atlanta and have limited resources like I do than playing up is eaqual to playing elite major. It might not be but its close enough for me and has really helped my son. Now at 12 we were able to walk on field an make elite major so we will see if it helped or not. All astro players are stars anywhere thats might pioint.
Not really meaning to get into a debate with you Lil, but your situation may be different than others, therefore you can not make the statement about kids playing their age because they want to be the best on the team. There is PLENTY of good competition around Metro Atlanta for a kid to play his own age group and still play the best teams in the state or even throughout the country right here in our backyard.
And the Astros may be stars anywhere, but there certainly is a heirarchy among the players in terms of talent. Even on the Astros, some players are better than others. Therefore, one kid on the Astros will be middle of the pack on that team, but MAY be a star on most other teams. I have heard plenty of stories about Astros players not being happy because they didn't get the play time they thought they would.
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Edited by - bballman on 08/03/2012 16:23:47 |
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LilBigTown
115 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 16:54:42
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| Glad we agree.... Just like I said in original posts should make for a great debate |
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crzdirector
48 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2012 : 18:08:59
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I think that's a pretty bold and condesending comment. You think all the Astro players play their age group because they wouldn't be a star playing up? Come on LilBigTown, ANYONE (no matter how good they are) can find a team in their own age group that they wouldn't be the best on. Besides, it's not how you stack up against your own teammates, it's about how you stack up to the competition you play.
If your son is a pitcher, and is the best pitcher on the team, so what? How does he pitch against the top competition there is out there? In his age group or above. If he is a fielder, how does he hit against the best pitchers out there? That's all that matters.
As you said in an earlier post:
quote:
Originally posted by LilBigTown
Baseball unlike other sports is played 1 batter against 1 pithcher, 1 infielder against 1 groound ball, 1 base runner against 1 catcher
My son has always played on teams that were his own age group. But his teams have always played against the best, in their age group and the best in older age groups. He has always wanted to face the best. He pitched varsity as a freshman in a 5A school. Never backed down from a challenge, if fact always wanted the challenge. I didn't care if he was a star or not. Any time I asked him what team he wanted to play on (when it came time to change teams), his only comment was - "which ever team is best". He wanted to play with teammates that were good. He never wanted to be the best on a team. He didn't care, because he had the confidence that whatever team he was on, he was good enough to play. No matter how good the other players were.
Playing up has nothing to do with it. It all has to do with who you play against. I'll say it again. If you're playing a AA 10u team, they may not be nearly as good as an 8u major/elite team. Now, if you're playing against a major/elite 10u team, now that's saying something. It's all about who you play and how good they are, not what age they are.
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In the three years that we have been playing travel ball, we have seen some really good teams and lost to most of them that were elite (Signature Park Titans, G Select, Home Plate) or at least elite compared to what we saw on a week in and week out basis. Last season we faced two very good 9u teams (Newton Heat & Gwinnett Storm) and lost to both of them. Good teams are good teams and the best teams, as has been said, have fewer if any "holes".
I wish I had the means to put him in a spot where he could have an opportunity to play ECB or 6-4-3 but that's just not realistic. I've had some discussion with some coaches of aaa/major teams slightly closer and have found a few other options.
His mom is salivating over him "being the best kid" and playing aa ball in his age group. I could care less, I just want him to compete and get better. The distance is also a big deal, simply because of my job and my ex-wife's job...we just can't get to a 6:00 practice an hour away when we both work until at least 5 and its 30 minutes to get to his school...add in eating and getting to practice and its tough to be there before 7.
He loves to play and I love watching him. I've never been able to just be a dad and watch before and I cringe at the thought of watching bad aa daddy ball. The reality is that we may have to play 10aa ball and make the best out of the situation. I realize this season won't make or break his career. He may not even want to play when he is 15 so me thinking about his 10th grade year is not top priority right now.
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Canton Chargers
885 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2012 : 06:36:25
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| I say let them play up until they are 12. At 13 the bases jump 10 more feet and outfield is starting to expand. As someone else said, a younger baller trying to hang with older kids at 13-14U will most likely throw his arm out. If they are not of the taller sort, they will most likely struggle on the base running and what I have witnessed the most is, that boys normally start growing more hair and getting deeper voices around this age, so if your son is still having that kid voice, then the maturity level may get excellerated rather quickly hanging with the "trying to be mature" kids. Some of the things boys talk about at 13 are far different than the 12u kids also. I've seen both ages a lot and I kinda want my younger one to stay younger at times when it comes to some things ;) As for baseball though, I feel that if your kid is of the normal stature, then I would play up "if capable and is clearly one of the top in his age" until the age of 12. |
Edited by - Canton Chargers on 08/04/2012 07:24:41 |
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bbmom2
119 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2012 : 07:40:54
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| He's 9. If most of his friends are playing 9U, then stay there. He will get lots of reps and experience and enjoy being the stud while he can. By the time he's 13 or 14, no one (coaches) will care he played up. Let him have fun. The best at 9, 10 or 11 will probably not be the best at 14. The resume won't matter. Work to be the stud at 14 and above. Then it matters. |
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crzdirector
48 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2012 : 10:51:41
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He has never played with kids his age, never been in a church group with kids his age, or really has very many real friends that are in his grade. We chose to have him play out of county and up a skill level when he was 5 with football and baseball and we really never adjusted.
With the field getting slightly bigger from 10u to 11u, it inspired me to start thinking about holding him back and letting him grow/mature a little bit more. Even last year some of the older boys had "girlfriends" and were all about watching girls softball between games and my little guy was trying to trade pokemon cards.
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LilBigTown
115 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2012 : 12:07:51
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| Bballman read Bballmom quoate then go back read mine "most parents dont want kids to play up so they can be th Stud on thier team now" to me thats about parents ego not what is best for the kid if he can play. What if Gabby Douglas's mom would have let her stay in her local gym with her friends instead of going to train for the olympics. Interestingly enough Gabbys sisters talked mom into it because they knew she loved it. Reckon Mom is proud of her Olympic GOLD medalists . |
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crzdirector
48 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2012 : 13:40:05
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| It all goes back to what is BEST for my boy and what is best for our family. As much as playing aaa/major baseball would be a challenge for him, I realize that just getting to the tournaments is going to be a bigger investment. We'll come up with a way to make it work but its not as simple a slam dunk as play here or play there. If money and time were no object we would definitely shoot for the moon, but that's not the case |
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Play up or Play Down?
