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gabulldogs
29 Posts |
 Posted - 08/07/2012 : 19:51:34
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| Just want to say how unfair it is that how some coaches feel it is so important to black list kids because of something that happened years ago from terrible coaching and now they feel its o.k to make sure they NEVER get a chance at a team no matter what their tryout was like. Had a talk with a new coach and before you know it the so called manager is calling up and talking smack before they even showed up to the tryout. Now that is in the new coaches mind and the kid has NO chance. Bye the way, the one talking smacks kid has never tried out for a team, for his dad has always made sure he either coached or has had his name affiliated with the team so his son is always on the roster and starting some position.(Bye the way he is the point of contact, but is not coaching or managing the team). I am so tired of the good ole boys club in travel ball especially in the rec areas where you either play for travel or you have terrible rec teams and the same coaches keep moving up or have multiple teams and they act like GODS of the program. I'm am not being bitter for my son has chosen to stop playing ball, but have seen this way to often through the years and hope NO ONE else puts up with this and should make changes in the rec areas each year in order to give all a fair shot and not for something a parent may have said in previous years. Grow up and let it go. I know some will know who this is about and at this point I don't care, just want all to see that is knew to the travel teams what to look out for. N.C/ C.D |
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Crossroads
448 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 07:16:26
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| GA this happens more than it should and vice versa. Coaches will bad mouth a player or organization to keep the parents from bringing them somewhere else. You hit the nail right on the head and unfortunately this is part of what we have to deal with. Real shame that your son stopped playing because of all the BS that grownups cause. |
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Canton Chargers
885 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 07:58:23
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I know this happens a lot and have seen it a lot myself. I have had plenty of so called black listed players on my team and have gotten criticized a lot for it for picking them, keeping them or not being able to control them at times. I guess we can be called the Oakland Raiders of travel ball at times, but the difference between the Raiders and our team is that they are grown men making millions of dollars and my team is comprised of kids that can ALL be taught on how to act if given the proper time and coaching/ parenting. As for the parents, I give them plenty of warning prior to season and let them know that they have the potential to see their kids play ball or have the potential to see their kid get kicked off of team. I leave it up to them on how they conduct themselves, but that "how they act" (The Parents), will definitely impact their kids one way or the other. We still aren't where I want us to be in terms of how they act (The kids), when things go south, but they are always learning and progressing on their game and attitude towards it and the people within it.
Not sure of all the details in your case, but hope that your son comes back to ball, as it is a great game for the kids and should always be fun for them no matter of what age. |
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gabulldogs
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 08:32:18
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| The parents did nothing wrong. They just stood up and voiced their concern about the coaches conduct on the field and their names got back to the coaches and it went from there(6 years ago). Now the kid pays every year. Not worth the heart ache.. |
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dogatbat
45 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 08:38:23
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| There are times when parents will be the perpetrators of falsehoods about a player and/or his parents. These agitators will squall to any potential coach in hopes of keeping a particular kid off of a good team. Why? Not so much b/c the kid or his parents are trouble, but the agitators refuse to allow any kid that plays the same position as their MLB player to given an opportunity to take the position. These kind of parents will not stop at anything! This factual story is from Middle georgia where the population is, by far, thinner than Metro, but where more opportunity exists to poison the playing environment...ie., fewer coaches and fewer good teams. This factual story began when the kid was 9 years old!! It has never stopped and these kids are entering HS!! Same agitators same ole story line!! If there is a silver lining, the blackballed kid is a starte at EC and the blackballer parents have their kid at Chain. The kid whose parents are agitators is a great kid and good player...so why, why do some parents take the low road when there is no need for it? Do the ends really justify the means??? |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 08:45:39
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I've unfortunately been on both sides of this issue. (gee, imagine that )
Here's the thing: it should NEVER be taken out on the player himself. If a coach does that without even TALKING to the parent himself or herself, then the coach is just as much of the problem as the parent. GROW UP.
However, there are just some parents (and even grandparents) who stir the pot over and over again to the point that everybody knows it and nobody has to bad mouth anybody and you can talk to that parent about it until you are blue  in the face and they just don't GET IT.
When you lose players (literally turn down offers) because of one wrong name on that roster, you have to make the tough call.
When there is one parent who tries to steer the roster selections in his favor it never ends well. The finger pointing starts and it's usually the one who complains the loudest about everybody else that is generally the actual problem.
Have your player at practice and games on time, learn how to wash his pants, pay your fees on time, let the coaches coach and try not to burden everybody with all your baggage and other kids crawling all over them. Parents are there to watch their player play. Give them their space to do so and keep smiling through whatever you don't agree with remembering all the while that the other parents cannot change the roster, playing time for your son and position he plays. Talking about it and having to listen to others whining about it is just downright annoying and for Pete's sake, never EVER criticize a player out on that field unless it's your own and even then say it to yourself. Seriously.
Soapbox tirade over. |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 08:51:00
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Black listing is wrong regardless, but let me play devils advocate for a minute.
Are we talking about bad attitude kids and or trouble making parents? Or are we talking sour grape coaches stone walling families? Travel ball is a big community but definitely a small network. If a player/family gains a reputation of being difficult, it will spread, no different than how an organization or a coach gains a reputation for being bad.
That said, volunteering info vs being asked for an opinion is different. There is a big difference. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 09:38:29
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| I had a coach ask me about a player one time. Player could play no doubt but was sort of a pain during practice, cut up I guess you would say. Well I didn't want to keep the kid from making a team and didn't know if he would grow up or if the coach could handle/control the behavior better than me, maybe it was me. Well the coach told me the kid was a pain in the butt the whole year. I wasn't trying to mess the coach up but didn't want to black ball the kid either based on his behavior at 10. |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 10:43:51
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Look, sometimes the warning is worth listening to, I've been in that position too - kid we knew quit a team we had played with the season before, and the dad reached out to me and asked me if I needed players - well I did, and he finished out the fall with us - the former coach called me to throw this poor kid under the bus, tell me how the dads a trouble maker hothead, just stirred the pot, stay away, yada yada. Didn't have one issue that fall.
The next spring, about 2 tournaments in, the dad starts coming unglued, starts sitting by himself, second guessing every move, bad mouthing us to other teams parents, if the kid pitches bad its because of the pitch calls, if misses a ball its because he isn't an outfielder or a first basemen or whatever excuse he gives.. Actually left after the saturday games, texts us saying he isn't coming back sunday and take him off the roster. A few months later, begs his way back to play with us, promises he will be under control, and guess what - same stuff again....
So you tell me - if another coach asks me how the kid was, I tell them the truth - the kid was great, coachable, well mannered and gave his all....
But if he asks me about the dad, what am I supposed to do, lie? I don't need to - the kids team history tells the story - 10 different teams in 3 seasons. |
Edited by - ramman999 on 08/08/2012 11:21:17 |
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LilBigTown
115 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 11:01:45
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| Dont reckon coaches do this to keep that kid off other rosters to prevent the kid from beating them. May be pain in the backside but can play especialy with a little added motivation. |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 11:37:27
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I don't know about black listing, but I think you have two cases where coaches talk.
1. Johnny is a stud, but his attitude destroys a team. I remember 2 years ago this team had a pitcher who had a lightening arm, but his attitude destroyed the whole team.
2. Parents, yes parents. I don't want the aggravation of you yelling at your kid every pitch, telling me he needs more reps at ss (when he might get killed there)
Just because a kid has talent doesn't mean he is a good baseball player...There are so many other factors that make them good (listening, work ethic, attitude, parents....) |
Edited by - peashooter on 08/08/2012 13:14:01 |
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HeadFirst
203 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 12:26:10
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Sometimes the parents are wrong, sometimes the coach is wrong. I have heard negative things about a dad, mom or player. Taken a chance on the kid and it turns out to be dead wrong. I have heard negative things about a coach and it turns out to be true. I have heard negative things about a parent and it turns out to also be true.
So I think people are going to be people and none of us are perfect. The rumors and information you are given by both coaches and parents take with a grain of salt. Evaluate who is giving you the information and less about what the information is they have to share! Live and learn and take little of what happens in baseball personal! |
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b@s3b@11
23 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 12:42:23
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Parents just need to use their manners and respect the coach and teach their kids to do the same.
If in a community known for strong personalities (travel ball) a family is blacklisted, that family has problems way bigger than where the kid is going to play next season.
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Canton Chargers
885 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 12:42:48
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All good points and as we mostly all know, there is always a case by case scenario and always a he said, she said. I will not punish kids for parents behavior, but instead, let the kid go, as I cannot have a cancerous parent poisoning what I am trying to do with the TEAM!!! We are in full swing right now of warning the parents through contracts, emails and face to face talks. Their kids have been given a great opportunity with our team as we play a lot of ball and charge the parents NOTHING. We have no monetary obligation to our parents, so if they think their kid is the next Chipper or think they can do better than the coaches by voicing their opinions in the stands, I tell them to hit the road. That simple!!
The kid is rarely the problem, it's either the parents or the coaches, but each have options to do what they want with their teams or children. Most of the time though, it directly affects the kid more than anyone. They have to go to school and be called a quitter or have their parents bad mouthed by other kids. Kids are brutally honest!!! Remember that before you run your mouth either as a coach or a parent.
Some day it may be like old times when the coach was the man and it WAS about the kids. I don't see those days coming back any time soon, but the reality is that it is and always should be, ABOUT THE KIDS. |
Edited by - Canton Chargers on 08/08/2012 13:14:19 |
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gabulldogs
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 13:29:07
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| It was the coaches dropping "F" bombs in the dugout and pulling kids off the field in the middle of an inning for making an error. I know that is going to happen at the older age, but these kids were 10 and that's where the parents had a problem. The kids were being 10 year old kids the coaches were being adult A@#$#. Now they are still paying for speaking out protecting the kids. |
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Canton Chargers
885 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 14:56:06
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| Any coach that talks like a sailor amongst kids, should not be coaching. When they get older, the kids tend to talk that way sometimes, but the coaches should set the example as the adult and figurehead of the team. |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2012 : 14:44:17
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I've been coaching 10+ years and have never heard of a blackball list for players. If you are a coach, you would be naive to think that parents are not going to vet you and your other coaches and your program and find out if what you've told them is true or not.
If you are a parent, you would be naive to think that coaches don't call around and ask about your son and YOU. Its pretty easy to do. Coaches talk to each other all the time. The kids are rarely the problem on a team. They know all too well how they stack up against their teammates and most just want to have fun and play with their friends.
The adults are the ones who ruin it for the kids: Coaches who are not honest with parents, and themselves as to their son's ability; and parents who vicariously compete, focus on results rather than effort, expect perfection on every play, and then put pressure on their kid for not performing to that expected level. If you're not sure you are that kind of parent, I'll share the secret of how we coaches know who you are: When your kid makes a mistake on the field and then turns to look at you. Its always the same look, no matter the player.
Some coaches may shy away from a player because of a parent's reputation or some past incident. But even the best coaches have disagreements with parents. You just can't please everybody all the time when your job is to do what's best for the team. And problem parents usually wise up when they realize that their behavior is shrinking their son's team choices. I don't think its fair to exclude a kid or parent just because of a past incident. People change, kids change, and that's something you can only determine by talking about it and then deciding. |
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bbmom2
119 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2012 : 14:59:13
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quote:
Originally posted by RACGOFAR
If you're not sure you are that kind of parent, I'll share the secret of how we coaches know who you are: When your kid makes a mistake on the field and then turns to look at you. Its always the same look, no matter the player.
Yes and so true! Never really noticed that before but you are so right! Will remember that going forward... LOL! |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2012 : 14:11:28
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quote:
Originally posted by gabulldogs
It was the coaches dropping "F" bombs in the dugout and pulling kids off the field in the middle of an inning for making an error. I know that is going to happen at the older age, but these kids were 10 and that's where the parents had a problem. The kids were being 10 year old kids the coaches were being adult A@#$#. Now they are still paying for speaking out protecting the kids.
Pulling kids off the field for making errors is stupid at any age. Now crying and falling apart about making errors or dogging it then yeah pull them out at any age. I don't think anyone needs to drop the F bomb in the dugout at any age. |
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Black Listing
