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offspeed4
169 Posts |
 Posted - 05/28/2015 : 22:17:12
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| Often times you see certain kids mature at a much faster rate than their peers, which certainly helps them outperform many of the other players in their age group. What is the upside and downside of being a dominant player at young ages (8-12)? |
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LittleDawg
91 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 08:50:31
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Interesting topic. Having been in the Travelball game with 3 kids I've seen this a lot.
For the "stud" the upside is that you are "The Man" Everybody loves you. Coaches and Parents put you on a pedestal and have discussions about how you are the next (insert MLB name here).
Downside: Not much unless you don't work hard to continue to develop. If a pitcher there's the potential for over-throwing. If stud infielder, you may not get a chance to play OF (again development). The bigger issue is if the Parents buy into the fact that their kid is a stud. Little Johnny can do no wrong and there's the potential sense of entitlement. If the parents are realistic, they can keep the kid grounded.
The reality: There aren't too many true studs out there. Yes there are very good players but puberty levels the playing field. From 13-15 many of the "Studs" become average and the average players become "studs"
“Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 08:56:46
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My rambling opinion:
The upsides include being successful and building confidence. Being recognized by other players and their parents. Getting more reps and experience. (Yes, the "stud" does tend to get to play more.) Getting more invites to events: If a team needs an extra player or two, they want a stud, not the last pick on the team. The chance to play with other top players.
The downsides include the added pressure of being so good. It always amazed me how parents on opposing teams would react when a "stud" struck out. They are still kids. Also, just because a kid is a stud at 8-12, does not mean that will continue. Is the kid a stud just because he is bigger then most or does he have better natural ability? The bigger kid may not always stay bigger. If he has a natural ability, he needs to decide if he is willing to work at his craft. Many kids decide that the hard work is not worth it to them. If they have no desire to play past high school.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 09:46:41
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Everyone has a different experience...but here is what I have noticed, the upside and the downside are the same.
1. The stud player gets more reps in the field, this improves their game...downside to that is overuse. When you have a stud player it's hard for some of the inexperienced dad coaches to understand that while the kid is capable of being a great catcher/pitcher/Short Stop...it can be damaging to a young players arm to play non-stop every game when you could be in 50 games in the Spring. My son had one coach who had 2 studs on the team...one would catch while the other pitched and then they would switch spots, even in the same game! (Not good!!!!)
2. The stud player is Mr. Clutch, his teammates love him for making those amazing plays, consistently hitting those doubles, he bats 3rd or 4th every game, the coaches love how he always seems to come through when the team really needs him, this makes the kid feel awesome and baseball is beyond fun. The downside is a 8-12 year old stud has a GREAT danger of becoming uncoachable...when you are the golden goose not much is said to you in a bad way. The stud player can start to think of himself as invincible, he will never be sat, he can do what he wants, he will still get to play. Even if he goofs off at practice, even if he talks back to a coach, even if he doesn't come to practice he knows he won't be sat because he is Mr. Clutch! My son was having a problem not turning in his homework at school...I asked the coach to sit him for a pool play game...he asked maybe for half the game? I finally said okay, and shortly in the second inning he came over to say he needed my son on the mound because the first pitcher needed to be pulled and could he please PLEASE put my son in...surrounded by parents I felt I had to agree. (NOT GOOD!!!)
These were the experiences that stand out in my mind. If we had different coaches things likely would have gone differently, but I have a feeling there are more coaches out there like we experienced than not. To be fair the coach in the second scenario was not a bad coach or a bad person, he honestly cared about my son but he was an excited dad put in a tough position of trying to win, his plan got shot, and he didn't realize the lasting implications of what they were doing, and really neither did I.
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zwndad
170 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 10:39:36
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Upside - You get more looks, even when you get into high school ... as long as you keep outworking everybody else you'll stay ahead
Downside - You can get complacent and outworked. Also, being a physical stud at an early age can lead to a kid not working on proper mechanics, which will catch up with them.
But after watching kids go through rec to travel to high school to college over the last 15 years or so, my opinion is that there are 3 factors that really determine long-term success:
- Genetics
- Work ethic
- Desire
And the greatest of these is genetics. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 11:18:15
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zwndad - Bingo! There is a reason that coaches/scouts always ask...'how big are the parents?'
Success at early ages can mostly, not always, be attributed to physical maturity. The stronger (not always bigger) kids with proper training usually excel. That's why the 90lb kid can hit it farther than the 120lb...right now.
I think each of us have seen the kid who was 5'11 (fully-bearded) at 12 yrs-old. He could throw 75 mph and hit it 300ft...it's because he was playing in a 16 yr-old body. Sometimes those kids end up 5'11" as a high school senior.
I think parents really struggle with this. 'My kid used to be so awesome but I can't figure out why he's not dominating anymore.' Sadly, it was mostly because he was physically two years older than everyobe else.
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Edited by - hshuler on 05/29/2015 14:56:40 |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 11:43:15
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All comments from previous posters are outstanding, but there is one missing that stands out to me.
Is the kid primarily a stud because he's the largest/strongest at the young age, or is it because of the natural talent that he has?
If the former, then the downside is that everyone will typically catch up, and if this was the primary advantage the kid had, without some natural gifts, then he'll be yesterday's news. If the latter, then you can expect that with discipline, hard work, luck (staying healthy, etc), good coaching, and staying humble, you can expect the player to work his talents to take him as far as he is willing to work.
Don't forget the three G's (Girls, Grass & Gas) that will ultimately rear their heads when the kid hits 16. Seen the best of them succumb to one or combination of all three to derail an otherwise promising future. Once the real distractions begin to enter his life, you'll find out how important the game REALLY is to him. |
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RoamingCF
77 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 12:58:47
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In my experience, the downside is entirely in the hand of parents. The stud 10U/11U/12U kid whose parents cater to them as this "stud"...these kids decide they don't have to work as hard...others catch up.
There are plenty of terrific players at these ages; let these kids continue to learn/develop/work hard/ENJOY. Let them be. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 15:51:59
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I think the resounding theme on just about all of these posts are about parents believing the hype. I believe in giving credit where it's due but the best advice I ever heard was it's everyone else's job to tell him how good he is...and it's your job as a parent to keep him humble.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2015 : 08:49:42
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quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
I think the resounding theme on just about all of these posts are about parents believing the hype. I believe in giving credit where it's due but the best advice I ever heard was it's everyone else's job to tell him how good he is...and it's your job as a parent to keep him humble.
I would agree with this hshuler 100%. The best case scenario is you UNDERestimating your own child's ability. Plenty of people out there planning the MLB career of their 7 year olds, try not to be one of them. |
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chuckmann
10 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2015 : 06:48:43
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| So am I alone in the belief that kids should be playing against/with similar talent rather than similar birthdays? |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2015 : 09:12:28
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quote:
Originally posted by chuckmann
So am I alone in the belief that kids should be playing against/with similar talent rather than similar birthdays?
The best advice I have ever received is to have your child play on the best team he can that will give him significant playing time. If he can play 9u at age 7 go for it. If, when he turns 12, he is one of the very tiny kids on the then 14u team then keep him back so he can play on a good team but still get significant playing time. Every year you need to reevaluate your player and his needs.
Many times I have seen parents pushing their kids to be on a better team at a young age. I have seen the very decent 7u kid turn into an uncoachable mess because he thinks he can do no wrong, this usually culminates with a very bad attitude and helmets and bats are thrown after a strike out and all because the kid can't adjust to the fact that others have passed him in skill. I have seen kids crumble on the field and get angry with themselves, and with their parents and finally just give up baseball at age 11 because it just isn't fun any more. And I have seen kids who thrive on playing better and faster kids and the competitive rat race is what really gets their head in the right space to play at the next level.
This all comes down to knowing your kid and getting advice from knowledgeable people on what your child needs. A HUGE part of this journey is accepting that you, the parent, may not actually know what your own kid needs and are more than likely NOT a good gauge for what his skill level actually is. It has been my experience that if your kid is playing more than 95% of the time, or less than 30% of the time, he is likely on the wrong kind of team. |
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chuckmann
10 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2015 : 10:26:41
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| All good points CaCO3 (being a water nerd, I love the name by the way). I always give my son the option when it comes to baseball. Whether it's throwing in the yard or going to the cage, he is almost always the one to initiate it. He puts in a lot of time because he loves it. All I want is for him to love the game because I know he has the natural ability, but all the ability in the world is useless if you don't want to play. He likes the challenge of kid pitch so we had to play him up and it worked out great. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2015 : 10:52:26
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@Chuckmann - You are not alone...(singing in my Michael Jackson voice...lol)
I think it's very important for kids to learn how to compete. Sometimes that comes from playing up and sometimes it doesn't.
I am not saying that all 'stud' players flame out because that's not true. I just think that some are too quick to anoint the next 'great one.' |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2015 : 11:32:37
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quote:
Originally posted by chuckmann
So am I alone in the belief that kids should be playing against/with similar talent rather than similar birthdays?
Why can't a kid play with kids his age and also kids with similar talent? If he is a top 8u, find a top 8u team. That allows him to continue to improve while also enjoying the friendship of kids his age.
Come HS, play with your grade, no matter your age. And again, find a team with the right talent level. Many top 16u teams play in 18u tournaments. But by playing on the right age team, college recruiters know when these kids will graduate. |
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GeorgiaBoy
29 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2015 : 12:55:59
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Good Stuff here... as usual...
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by chuckmann
So am I alone in the belief that kids should be playing against/with similar talent rather than similar birthdays?
The best advice I have ever received is to have your child play on the best team he can that will give him significant playing time. If he can play 9u at age 7 go for it. If, when he turns 12, he is one of the very tiny kids on the then 14u team then keep him back so he can play on a good team but still get significant playing time. Every year you need to reevaluate your player and his needs.
Many times I have seen parents pushing their kids to be on a better team at a young age. I have seen the very decent 7u kid turn into an uncoachable mess because he thinks he can do no wrong, this usually culminates with a very bad attitude and helmets and bats are thrown after a strike out and all because the kid can't adjust to the fact that others have passed him in skill. I have seen kids crumble on the field and get angry with themselves, and with their parents and finally just give up baseball at age 11 because it just isn't fun any more. And I have seen kids who thrive on playing better and faster kids and the competitive rat race is what really gets their head in the right space to play at the next level.
This all comes down to knowing your kid and getting advice from knowledgeable people on what your child needs. A HUGE part of this journey is accepting that you, the parent, may not actually know what your own kid needs and are more than likely NOT a good gauge for what his skill level actually is. It has been my experience that if your kid is playing more than 95% of the time, or less than 30% of the time, he is likely on the wrong kind of team.
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chuckmann
10 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2015 : 13:24:24
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DecaturDad,
The problem is geographical. Not many teams around these here parts. Gainesville has some good teams but they are still about 45 minutes away. We aren't in the bigger markets around Atlanta and we are trying to keep it fairly close to home. I can't imagine driving an hour to practice multiple times a week. He has made friends with some of his teammates as we are a young 9U group. I imagine things will change as time goes on but right now, he just wants to play ball. |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2015 : 19:09:54
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quote:
Originally posted by chuckmann
DecaturDad,
The problem is geographical. Not many teams around these here parts. Gainesville has some good teams but they are still about 45 minutes away. We aren't in the bigger markets around Atlanta and we are trying to keep it fairly close to home. I can't imagine driving an hour to practice multiple times a week. He has made friends with some of his teammates as we are a young 9U group. I imagine things will change as time goes on but right now, he just wants to play ball.
In your case, I agree: play up. Nothing takes the fun out of baseball faster then long drives to practice. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2015 : 08:26:35
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quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
quote:
Originally posted by chuckmann
DecaturDad,
The problem is geographical. Not many teams around these here parts. Gainesville has some good teams but they are still about 45 minutes away. We aren't in the bigger markets around Atlanta and we are trying to keep it fairly close to home. I can't imagine driving an hour to practice multiple times a week. He has made friends with some of his teammates as we are a young 9U group. I imagine things will change as time goes on but right now, he just wants to play ball.
In your case, I agree: play up. Nothing takes the fun out of baseball faster then long drives to practice.
I have formed several opinions over the last few years. One of these opinions is that driving more than 20 minutes to get a sub 14u kid to any practice is just crazy. Do people eventually have to travel greater distances to get their kid to a team practice that can increase his skills and highlight him...yeah...at 7, no freaking way! |
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tuffmavrick
47 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2015 : 10:54:25
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Question, what if at 7 your kid is hitting over 900, at 8 is having to play on a 12u rec team. When he starts travel ball he is the top 1 or 2 on team. How do you know what the right moves are? On other post people say if he is top 3 on team or plays over 95% of time he needs other team.
I pray everyday that I make the right moves about his playing. I want him to have fun but also learn as much as possible. We have to drive between 45 mins to an hour to practice. Will you every feel the you have made the right choices, do you ever stop worrying about what is right or wrong? |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2015 : 14:37:05
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The thing that most parents don't seem to get is that somewhere along the way someone will tell you you have messed up! You should have taken him to an academy program where he could have gotten better training, you left him in rec ball too long, what do you mean he's never been in lessons he's NINE, how could he have never been in lessons don't you think he's behind? He should have been swinging a drop 5 bat by age 10, he should have been in speed and agility classes every summer, he should have been playing Major to get with kids that have better skills, he should have been playing AA so he could get more field time.....and on and on and on.....EVERYONE will have an opinion on what you should have done, and what you should do.
I try to base all my baseball decisions on two premises:
1. Is my child having fun? At the end of the day, he is my son first and a ball player second, and I don't want my kid to be stressed over a GAME, because that is what it is people, it's a game.
2. I do a cost/benefit analysis...and no I'm not even in finance, but the idea is sound.
The costs can be anything from lost homework/sleep time for the child, the time the parent has to be away from their other children and spouse, cost of gas, wear on the car...etc.
I feel that every kid has a shot at playing meaningful baseball to them...it might be on a AA team and it might be on a Major team...I would just HOPE it was the child's choice and not the parents trying to keep up with the Jones'es of the world. I can't tell you how many times I have heard about so and so's kid taking lessons because "if he doesn't he will fall behind"....fall behind in what? If he isn't hitting/playing go to a lower team. I just saw my own son grown 7 inches in 7 months now he throws harder/faster than everyone else who is still 4'10....they aren't behind because they didn't take lessons they are behind because I have a giant for a 12 year old...everyone grows at different rates and that is why none of this really matters until after puberty really starts kicking in. So, my point is everyone will hear they messed up at some point in time...shrug it off and do what's best for YOUR kid according to YOU. You might get it wrong...you might get it right...then again your kid may only grow to be 5'2 and he should really look into being a horse jockey at that point...everything changes people, nothing ever stays the same.
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mar1dxt
30 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2015 : 08:55:23
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| My son just finished a 4 day "rising freshman" baseball camp conducted by the high school coaches for the high school he will attend in the fall. Interestingly, the two kids selected by the Head Coach as camp MVPs would not have been considered "studs" at a younger age. Both were on the small side and were not selected for the Rec All Star team or the local park travel team at 11U. Both have played travel ball (one started at 12U and the other at 13U) and clearly have been coached well in baseball fundamentals. Throughout the week, both exhibited superior technique and understanding of baseball and stood out whether it was in fielding or hitting drills and scrimmages. |
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GeorgiaBoy
29 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2015 : 12:10:32
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Rec ball All Star teams at least were we played were a joke... My son made them sometimes & sometimes he didn't just depending on how many friends he had on the team... My son led his team in batting average & runs scored and did not make it this last season... Since the kids are the ones who voted they simply vote for their friends. My son was also politicked off the A summer ball team... Dad's who are friends & drink beers together are going to stick together... It's not a reflection of skill at the rec level or even travel...
It sounds like evaluators of the camp actually picked kids based on skills and baseball IQ... I'm glad they got recognized. |
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Blessing or curse to be a stud at the young ages?
