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biged
198 Posts |
 Posted - 01/12/2009 : 12:12:37
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| At 10u, the good pitchers are usually the good hitters. My son went at 10 in 2005 (Tamiami Rangers). 15 kids. All played the pithing position. Some threw hard, some were actual pitchers. Bottom line is that at 10u if you are athletic enough to pitch, you are also athletic enough to hit and play a position. However, given the choice between good hitting and good pitching, Always go w/pitching. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 18:22:59
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Has anyone noticed how many players some of these National powerhouses carry? Or how many tourneys they play? It seems they are really 2 teams in one. Mizuno's Glory 10U just won a big Winter tourney in South Florida, and they carry 23 players! Only 12 are pictured in the winning team shot on USSSA's web site.
I noticed this to be the case with most top teams so the formula obviously works. Why do they do it? How do they do it? Do 23 kids show up to practice. What did the 11 players who didn't play in last weekends tourney do? Are there any Georgia teams doing this?
This was the heart of this thread, but I wanted to see where it would go before I threw it out there. I wanted to see if anyone would bring this up.
Can a single team play in two USSSA tourneys the same weekend using different players? I see these guys as being 1 step ahead of us.
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 00:53:59
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quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
Has anyone noticed how many players some of these National powerhouses carry? Or how many tourneys they play? It seems they are really 2 teams in one. Mizuno's Glory 10U just won a big Winter tourney in South Florida, and they carry 23 players! Only 12 are pictured in the winning team shot on USSSA's web site.
I noticed this to be the case with most top teams so the formula obviously works. Why do they do it? How do they do it? Do 23 kids show up to practice. What did the 11 players who didn't play in last weekends tourney do? Are there any Georgia teams doing this?
This was the heart of this thread, but I wanted to see where it would go before I threw it out there. I wanted to see if anyone would bring this up.
Can a single team play in two USSSA tourneys the same weekend using different players? I see these guys as being 1 step ahead of us.
Sir I respectfully disagree. They are way ahead of themselves.
At 10 years old carrying 20 plus players and bringing in players from a wide geographic area to win a tournament attended by pre-pubescent 5th graders is all about coaches and parents egos.
Nothing about this realistically leads to anything for the players themselves once they reach a mature baseball age of say 14s to 15s.
By then half the boys wont be playing competitively anymore if at all . We have seen this so much over and over from 9s and 10s to 13s and 14s. So its total about right now going to such huge efforts by these 10 year old teams organizers.
Looks like fun for the moment but quite out of perspective in my opinion  . |
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 09:56:51
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BMoser,
What they may have are several kids that don't want to commit to travel all the time but would like to some. They may choose 12 kids to travel on a particular weekend while the others stay locally. The 12 may change from weekend to weekend, but they all practice together. Who knows. I do not believe this is the trend at those ages, though.
I do not believe GA is behind. What teams here are not naturally willing to do is pull players from other teams to go compete in bigger tournaments. We still go more by the old school rules of "Dance with the one who brung ya!!"
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JCB
88 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 10:00:20
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coachdan 06 -
I understand and agree with your comments, but as a coaching community when is it time for the parents and players to realize that committing and writing a check to play on a team does not guaranty playing time. If we are trying to teach our young men how to earn their place in life and not feel entitled, then at what at age should we carry more players and make kids compete for playing time.
Certainly at 10 years old everyone should get the chance to play, but at 13 or 14 I would suggest competing for playing time and making each other better during practice and workouts benefits the team and teaches valuable life lessons. High school coaches are not going to play favorites, at least lets hope not (politics are everywhere though), and the best players that give the team the best chance of winning will be on the field. I know many friends and young men that played HS and or college sports and knew their chances of getting much if any playing time was unlikely, but they wanted to be part of the team regardless of this fact. I know personally, that many players on my HS and college teams felt that they earned their rings by making our team better during practice.
Just some thoughts on this topic to consider. I would really like to hear feedback on when you all think players should earn their playing time. I understand this is mostly a forum on youth baseball and by no means am I suggesting young kids riding the bench, but I am really interested to hear when you all think the change should take place.... |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 10:11:18
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Coach Dan, Thanks for your perspective. Perhaps we are both right. They are 1 step ahead of us in winning tourney's and gaining National acclaim at 10U , but perhaps not in developing ball players over the long term. Time will tell.
quote:
Originally posted by coachdan06
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
Has anyone noticed how many players some of these National powerhouses carry? Or how many tourneys they play? It seems they are really 2 teams in one. Mizuno's Glory 10U just won a big Winter tourney in South Florida, and they carry 23 players! Only 12 are pictured in the winning team shot on USSSA's web site.
I noticed this to be the case with most top teams so the formula obviously works. Why do they do it? How do they do it? Do 23 kids show up to practice. What did the 11 players who didn't play in last weekends tourney do? Are there any Georgia teams doing this?
This was the heart of this thread, but I wanted to see where it would go before I threw it out there. I wanted to see if anyone would bring this up.
Can a single team play in two USSSA tourneys the same weekend using different players? I see these guys as being 1 step ahead of us.
Sir I respectfully disagree. They are way ahead of themselves.
At 10 years old carrying 20 plus players and bringing in players from a wide geographic area to win a tournament attended by pre-pubescent 5th graders is all about coaches and parents egos.
Nothing about this realistically leads to anything for the players themselves once they reach a mature baseball age of say 14s to 15s.
By then half the boys wont be playing competitively anymore if at all . We have seen this so much over and over from 9s and 10s to 13s and 14s. So its total about right now going to such huge efforts by these 10 year old teams organizers.
Looks like fun for the moment but quite out of perspective in my opinion .
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baseball99
89 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 10:50:37
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Well said coachdan
quote:
Originally posted by coachdan06
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
Has anyone noticed how many players some of these National powerhouses carry? Or how many tourneys they play? It seems they are really 2 teams in one. Mizuno's Glory 10U just won a big Winter tourney in South Florida, and they carry 23 players! Only 12 are pictured in the winning team shot on USSSA's web site.
I noticed this to be the case with most top teams so the formula obviously works. Why do they do it? How do they do it? Do 23 kids show up to practice. What did the 11 players who didn't play in last weekends tourney do? Are there any Georgia teams doing this?
This was the heart of this thread, but I wanted to see where it would go before I threw it out there. I wanted to see if anyone would bring this up.
Can a single team play in two USSSA tourneys the same weekend using different players? I see these guys as being 1 step ahead of us.
Sir I respectfully disagree. They are way ahead of themselves.
At 10 years old carrying 20 plus players and bringing in players from a wide geographic area to win a tournament attended by pre-pubescent 5th graders is all about coaches and parents egos.
Nothing about this realistically leads to anything for the players themselves once they reach a mature baseball age of say 14s to 15s.
By then half the boys wont be playing competitively anymore if at all . We have seen this so much over and over from 9s and 10s to 13s and 14s. So its total about right now going to such huge efforts by these 10 year old teams organizers.
Looks like fun for the moment but quite out of perspective in my opinion .
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baseball99
89 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 11:29:36
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| Take a look through USSSA at the 9u San Diego Stars from 2008. They won the Elite 24 last year. Open up their roster history and notice how many of their players played for other teams during 2008, some of them from 10u major teams. I followed this tournament last Summer and 5 out of the 6 pitchers they used during that tournament were from other teams. Bottom line, they stacked a team to win this tournament. |
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 14:03:19
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JCB,
It seems like 13U starts to turn the corner on that. Maybe it is because playing in HS starts to come over the horizon. It's also easier to manage if you have all non-dad coaches. Then the coaches have 14 or 15 kids on the team and not just one or two. It takes out the argument that a coaches kid is getting preferetial treatment. If you think accusations of daddy-ball exist with 11 or 12 on the team, try having 14 or 15. Now you have 1/3 of the team sitting out at any one time. Any time the coach's kid is playing, even if it is very little, will be scrutinized as to why they are out there. Tough situation to put a parent-coach in. |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 00:41:26
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Moser we agree here.
Definitely they have a formula to win and it has to be fun when the do .
Something those kids will never forget !
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
Coach Dan, Thanks for your perspective. Perhaps we are both right. They are 1 step ahead of us in winning tourney's and gaining National acclaim at 10U , but perhaps not in developing ball players over the long term. Time will tell.
quote:
Originally posted by coachdan06
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
Has anyone noticed how many players some of these National powerhouses carry? Or how many tourneys they play? It seems they are really 2 teams in one. Mizuno's Glory 10U just won a big Winter tourney in South Florida, and they carry 23 players! Only 12 are pictured in the winning team shot on USSSA's web site.
I noticed this to be the case with most top teams so the formula obviously works. Why do they do it? How do they do it? Do 23 kids show up to practice. What did the 11 players who didn't play in last weekends tourney do? Are there any Georgia teams doing this?
This was the heart of this thread, but I wanted to see where it would go before I threw it out there. I wanted to see if anyone would bring this up.
Can a single team play in two USSSA tourneys the same weekend using different players? I see these guys as being 1 step ahead of us.
Sir I respectfully disagree. They are way ahead of themselves.
At 10 years old carrying 20 plus players and bringing in players from a wide geographic area to win a tournament attended by pre-pubescent 5th graders is all about coaches and parents egos.
Nothing about this realistically leads to anything for the players themselves once they reach a mature baseball age of say 14s to 15s.
By then half the boys wont be playing competitively anymore if at all . We have seen this so much over and over from 9s and 10s to 13s and 14s. So its total about right now going to such huge efforts by these 10 year old teams organizers.
Looks like fun for the moment but quite out of perspective in my opinion .
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 11:37:42
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The 10U Mizuno's Glory are playing the Atlanta Super NIT, so we'll get to see a National powerhouse up close. If they bring all 23 players, we're gonna need bigger dugouts!
I know where I'll be March 22nd. |
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baseball papa
123 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2009 : 20:27:37
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Ok boys, there is a new sheriff in town. Georgia can absolutely build a national powerhouse and this has been proven with many successful national contenders in several age groups over the past several years and just as recently as last year with the 11u East Cobb Astros and Chiefs Baseball. The Astros and Chiefs not only competed but excelled playing and winning against the likes of TABU, Florida Fire, West Chester Sluggers and Simi Predators that all are in the national spotlight.
9u Bandit baseball also competed last year against many of the top national teams winning against all comers in the Elite 24 except the San Diego Stars that was composed of some great players from both California and Florida. Bandits compiled a overall record of 96-6 with 2 of these losses coming against the Stars and 2 against major 10u contenders. Bandits posted impressive wins against Memphis Tigers, Panama City Bay Bombers, Motor City Hit Dogs, and Dye Hard Baseball.
Bandits also competed and won 4 State Tournaments without a defeat and won the BPA World Series without a loss. All of this with players within a 20 mile radius of Chickamauga, Georgia that has a population of 3000. But then again you ask anyone that follows the Bandits and you will be told that the toughest place to win is in Georgia. They will also tell you that playing 643, Kennesaw, Astros, Chili Dogs, Stixx, Scorpions, Midway, Longhorns, Sandtown, PTB Elite and many other Georgia teams is no picnic. If you can stay on the fields with these teams you can get ready for anything the national spotlight shines on you.
It would be fantastic if we could all play baseball in all age groups on a level playing field but truth is that will most likely never happen. Many of the national contenders play with rosters of kids from several states that is stacked with premier players. But you believe PaPa when I tell you that Georgia baseball has proven year in and year out that they come to play baseball the right way and has always made me proud to be from Georgia. Sure there are exceptions but not many.
You find any true baseball man and you will be told that the toughest schedules to be found and the toughest teams to play can be found on the fields of Cobb County and North Georgia.
I can't deny that it would be awesome to see the best 12 players in any age group coached by the 4 best coaches North Georgia could produce but what would it do to the 6-8 teams that these players came from.
The question now becomes not can we build a national powerhouse but is building a national powerhouse worth the cost. Tell you what I would be willing to say. I will give you the first 12 picks and I would almost be willing to promise you that you could get as good or better team in the next 12 picks. Moser's initial picks were right on but there are so many great baseball players from this area that if you had 12 of the best baseball men pick this team you would have 12 different teams. That happens because our area is blessed with not one contender but many contenders.
Let all remember that it our job as parents and coaches is to teach these kids the fundamentals of baseball and to increase their love for the game and to prepare them for the next level and then the next level and I promise each child will thank you for the opportunity given to them no matter how far they go.
Good luck to all of the 10u and 12u teams in 2009 and I look forward to watching the competition as I expect this year to be of the best years North Georgia baseball could hope for with at least 8-10 teams in each of these age groups competing for the championship every tournament they compete in. And this competition is what makes this area so special.
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tombstone
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2009 : 22:13:41
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GOOD POST MR.DENNIS.CANT BELIEVE YOU ARE JUST FINDING OUT ABOUT THIS WEBSITE.
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Edited by - tombstone on 01/18/2009 08:25:16 |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2009 : 10:02:51
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[quote]Originally posted by baseballpapa
[quote]Originally posted by dblinkh1
You can take the 15 best pitchers and I will take the best 15 hitters and I would have a better chance of winning it all at Cooperstown. Look at Little Leaque world series as an example. Pitching will get you to the finals but ultimately hitting wins it. Personally I would rather have a well rounded team but if I can only have either best pitchers or best batters I will take batters
I would love to play you every game with me and the pitching and defense and you with your hitters. This is not an opinion? This is a fact that over the history of baseball has been proven over and over again. All of you 9-12 under coaches say this over and over to yourselves "Pitching and defense wins", "Pitching and defense wins" and before you say Amen you might want to throw in some fundamentals at this age group. Now you have the winning recipe.
I have read the posts carefully and time after time the Atlanta teams write that the 10U Bandits are strong in pitching and strong in defense but not as strong in hitting. I agree with these posts but the Bandits consistently win with pitching and defense. We all have our opinions but at the end of the day the results will tell the story.
The great coaches and there are so many in our area preach defense but the truly great coach recognizes the weakness of his team and works hard to turn the weakness into strength. And in saying that I now have to go as the batting cages are fixing to open and we need to really work on our hitting.
And my the way this is what makes baseball the greatest game ever played because all of us build our teams based on what we have been blessed to work with. Some teams are built with hitters, Some with pitching, and some with defense. The different styles of playing is what makes the games awesome to watch.
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BREAMKING
323 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2009 : 17:59:37
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Baseballpapa
You are right on the money. This model works at every level. Good pitching, great defense, and some small ball and timely hitting will win championships in any age group. |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 08:16:40
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| I think you guys are 100% correct also, although I will disagree about Boynton and their hitting. Those kids can hit. They aren't power hitters well a couple are but most of them are good fundamental hitters who put the ball into play, go opposite field with runners on can bunt. They will be dominate again this season, but because of the things you said, Pitching and Defense. |
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Building a National powerhouse
