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Punishers
688 Posts |
 Posted - 10/22/2016 : 22:35:36
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| So far this fall I have seen quite a few teams with a lot of big kids. So big that if they hit the ball to the outfield they still get thrown out at 1st base. More like diabetic case calling. I guess some coaches really think size equals power. Not so the case in the game of baseball. I'm sure each coach has a preference in the size of a player they think is ideal but keep this in mind. The bigger, the slower. |
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TaxiMom
149 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2016 : 23:03:49
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| Quite the overgeneralization, don't you think? I know plenty of "big kids" who are quite fast. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2016 : 11:50:04
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quote:
Originally posted by TaxiMom
Quite the overgeneralization, don't you think? I know plenty of "big kids" who are quite fast.
Most of the big kids I have seen are not fast. They actually had beer guts. You can't substitute fast twitch fibers (speed) with fat. How did i know a mom was going to respond first. |
Edited by - Punishers on 10/23/2016 13:34:59 |
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TaxiMom
149 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2016 : 14:27:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Most of the big kids I have seen are not fast. They actually had beer guts. You can't substitute fast twitch fibers (speed) with fat. How did i know a mom was going to respond first.
Are you talking big, as in fat/overweight, or big as in stature? I assumed you were talking stature.....now if you're talking overweight, then I have no disagreement. But I know plenty of big-in-stature kids who are also fast.
I also have no idea what level of play you're watching - maybe you should check out some higher levels to see the big and fast kids. Believe me, they're there in decent numbers. And are often the more all-around athletic kids. In this mom's opinion. ;) |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2016 : 18:50:00
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quote:
Originally posted by TaxiMom
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Most of the big kids I have seen are not fast. They actually had beer guts. You can't substitute fast twitch fibers (speed) with fat. How did i know a mom was going to respond first.
Are you talking big, as in fat/overweight, or big as in stature? I assumed you were talking stature.....now if you're talking overweight, then I have no disagreement. But I know plenty of big-in-stature kids who are also fast.
I also have no idea what level of play you're watching - maybe you should check out some higher levels to see the big and fast kids. Believe me, they're there in decent numbers. And are often the more all-around athletic kids. In this mom's opinion. ;)
Fat, not statue. My kid would be considered big in statue. I'm talking about AAA and Major level teams I have seen. Uniforms barley fit. |
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3sondad
220 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2016 : 20:49:21
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| When my middle son was coming through there was a kid on his 13U team that was 5'9" and had 32" thighs. Yes thighs. Had to special order pants at 13. He was big, but he didn't look like he was carrying around a large beach ball under his shirt. But when he hit the ball I prayed it got in the air, because he could have really hurt some corner infielders and pitchers. He was not the quickest out of the box but once everything got going he was pretty fast. Saw some baseballs hit a really long way that summer. |
Edited by - 3sondad on 10/23/2016 21:56:30 |
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Cherokeeplayer
53 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2016 : 08:01:46
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The super over weight kids are forced to become PO's in the older ages, or give up the sport entirely.
In 9u my son was over weight. If he was on 3B the coach did NOT want to send him on a passed ball, heck no one wanted to send him, not me, not even himself. Fast forward to 14u, he is 6'0, 165#'s, can run a 5:20 mile, and if the ball goes over the outfielders head it is a guaranteed triple if not an in the park home run.
The weight thing is a youth baseball problem that will sort itself out. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2016 : 09:20:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Cherokeeplayer
The super over weight kids are forced to become PO's in the older ages, or give up the sport entirely.
In 9u my son was over weight. If he was on 3B the coach did NOT want to send him on a passed ball, heck no one wanted to send him, not me, not even himself. Fast forward to 14u, he is 6'0, 165#'s, can run a 5:20 mile, and if the ball goes over the outfielders head it is a guaranteed triple if not an in the park home run.
The weight thing is a youth baseball problem that will sort itself out.
I totally agree. The game get's more streamlined in the older ages. Too much size hinders mobility. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2016 : 17:04:26
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Mile time means nothing in baseball. It's all about 60 time.
quote:
Originally posted by Cherokeeplayer
The super over weight kids are forced to become PO's in the older ages, or give up the sport entirely.
In 9u my son was over weight. If he was on 3B the coach did NOT want to send him on a passed ball, heck no one wanted to send him, not me, not even himself. Fast forward to 14u, he is 6'0, 165#'s, can run a 5:20 mile, and if the ball goes over the outfielders head it is a guaranteed triple if not an in the park home run.
The weight thing is a youth baseball problem that will sort itself out.
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Wolfenurse
10 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2016 : 19:54:12
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| My son is small and coaches tend to take one look at him and think he cannot play. But my kid may be small but he is a great infielder and catcher. I hate when coaches only look at size. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2016 : 20:17:25
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| Said it before and will say it again, it's not small kids but weaker kids (big and small) who struggle. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2016 : 06:32:32
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| SO often the little ones have to work twice as hard to prove themselves against the big kid who gets picked by virtue only of being able to crush it every at bat. However, when the little kid does (hopefully) grow, all that hard work fine tuning the overall skill set really does pay off. When they all can throw with velocity, he has perfected his pitches and throws strikes, when he hits he knows how to read the pitch to get the best hit, and when he fields, he is often your best fielder. Of course, like Shuler pointed out, has to be little and athletic. Size will catch up. Weak will always struggle. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2016 : 08:13:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolfenurse
My son is small and coaches tend to take one look at him and think he cannot play. But my kid may be small but he is a great infielder and catcher. I hate when coaches only look at size.
The smaller kids still have their place at MIF, however, usually the smaller kids do not belong behind the plate. You can have the best technique and shuffle step in the world but smaller kids have a harder time getting the ball to 2B quickly, especially on the bigger field.
14u is crazy in this aspect. You have 85# kids trying to throw the ball to second with rainbows or hops and then you have 170# kids rocketing the ball to second on a string...there just isn't a comparison. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2016 : 15:40:15
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quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
Said it before and will say it again, it's not small kids but weaker kids (big and small) who struggle.
This ^^^^^^^
How hard you hit or how hard you throw has nothing to do with size. Going into HS, my son was small - about 5'6", 145 lbs. But he could hit the ball out of the park and threw about 82-84 mph. By the time he was a junior, he was about 5'9", 165 lbs. Could still hit the ball out - one of the top on the team for HRs and was throwing 86-89 mph. Never one of the bigger kids, but he was STRONG and athletic. Outpaced many of the bigger kids. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2016 : 18:11:29
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
Said it before and will say it again, it's not small kids but weaker kids (big and small) who struggle.
This ^^^^^^^
How hard you hit or how hard you throw has nothing to do with size. Going into HS, my son was small - about 5'6", 145 lbs. But he could hit the ball out of the park and threw about 82-84 mph. By the time he was a junior, he was about 5'9", 165 lbs. Could still hit the ball out - one of the top on the team for HRs and was throwing 86-89 mph. Never one of the bigger kids, but he was STRONG and athletic. Outpaced many of the bigger kids.
A lot of people have that misconception in their minds. Size has nothing to do with how much velocity and speed someone can generate.
Then again, I am biased to speedy kids with a comfort of their glove and a quick bat over big kids with limited field mobility that may hit a hr 1 game and strike out the rest of the season.
It's fast-twitch, not fat-twitch. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2016 : 07:53:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
Said it before and will say it again, it's not small kids but weaker kids (big and small) who struggle.
This ^^^^^^^
How hard you hit or how hard you throw has nothing to do with size. Going into HS, my son was small - about 5'6", 145 lbs. But he could hit the ball out of the park and threw about 82-84 mph. By the time he was a junior, he was about 5'9", 165 lbs. Could still hit the ball out - one of the top on the team for HRs and was throwing 86-89 mph. Never one of the bigger kids, but he was STRONG and athletic. Outpaced many of the bigger kids.
A lot of people have that misconception in their minds. Size has nothing to do with how much velocity and speed someone can generate.
Then again, I am biased to speedy kids with a comfort of their glove and a quick bat over big kids with limited field mobility that may hit a hr 1 game and strike out the rest of the season.
It's fast-twitch, not fat-twitch.
Some kids really have a hard time loosing the weight until puberty sets in. Some kids have a really hard time keeping ON the weight once puberty sets in.
It is a problem mostly limited to youth baseball, just give it time and it will sort itself out. |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2016 : 08:56:43
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A lot changes with puberty. Before that, there is a place for everyone to play somewhere. Come high school, it is speed and strength. This can be a smaller kid or a huge kid. We have played with a great kid since he was 9. Hardest working kid I ever met. But in middle school, he was one of the smallest kids on the team. But he worked his butt off everyday. Today, he is in 11th grade, hit 90 at perfect game and committed to a top D1.
And those who say big kids are slow: my son is 6'3", 225 pounds and has been known to steal home playing for a top travel team in the country. It helps when people assume he is slow :-)
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2016 : 23:56:38
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quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
A lot changes with puberty. Before that, there is a place for everyone to play somewhere. Come high school, it is speed and strength. This can be a smaller kid or a huge kid. We have played with a great kid since he was 9. Hardest working kid I ever met. But in middle school, he was one of the smallest kids on the team. But he worked his butt off everyday. Today, he is in 11th grade, hit 90 at perfect game and committed to a top D1.
And those who say big kids are slow: my son is 6'3", 225 pounds and has been known to steal home playing for a top travel team in the country. It helps when people assume he is slow :-)
At that size I don't consider him to be a big kid. He is a good size if he has 10% or less body fat. I was 6'5" 227 in high school. If he was 260+ that would be a different story, would be PO'd at 1B and DH, maybe a pitcher. |
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2ndbasecoach
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2016 : 15:16:59
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| Not sure what you are trying to prove here. As a coach in YOUTH baseball I am sure you are not saying that "overweight kids" are not welcomed or encouraged to play baseball. I think it is great that they want to turn off the video games and learn the game. They should be encouraged to join a team and not judged by how they look..I guess they would never end up on your team but I think you would miss out on helping change the life and self esteem of some of the struggling players and not just pick the studs where you can sit there and take all the credit..Maybe we should start judging the coaches this way and bring a scale for yall to stand on at tryouts.. |
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oneZone
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2016 : 17:16:39
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quote:
Originally posted by 2ndbasecoach
Not sure what you are trying to prove here. As a coach in YOUTH baseball I am sure you are not saying that "overweight kids" are not welcomed or encouraged to play baseball. I think it is great that they want to turn off the video games and learn the game. They should be encouraged to join a team and not judged by how they look..I guess they would never end up on your team but I think you would miss out on helping change the life and self esteem of some of the struggling players and not just pick the studs where you can sit there and take all the credit..Maybe we should start judging the coaches this way and bring a scale for yall to stand on at tryouts..
Burn!
I agree. They need to put those fat-twitch muscles to work and try to avoid those diabetic cases. After all, baseball is not size dependent. I don't care what their statue is, or if their uniform barley fits!
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Edited by - oneZone on 10/28/2016 23:22:02 |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2016 : 01:34:47
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quote:
Originally posted by oneZone
quote:
Originally posted by 2ndbasecoach
Not sure what you are trying to prove here. As a coach in YOUTH baseball I am sure you are not saying that "overweight kids" are not welcomed or encouraged to play baseball. I think it is great that they want to turn off the video games and learn the game. They should be encouraged to join a team and not judged by how they look..I guess they would never end up on your team but I think you would miss out on helping change the life and self esteem of some of the struggling players and not just pick the studs where you can sit there and take all the credit..Maybe we should start judging the coaches this way and bring a scale for yall to stand on at tryouts..
Burn!
I agree. They need to put those fat-twitch muscles to work and try to avoid those diabetic cases. After all, baseball is not size dependent. I don't care what their statue is, or if their uniform barley fits!
NOT!
I was putting together a purely development team or a rec team. This situation would work. If I was putting together a competitive team, your case is moot. This is why teams have tryouts. So you should bring your scale at the next tryout. Most of coaches I know or have seen are no where near being overweight. As far as the video games. I blame that on the parents who allow them to drown their heads an electronic device and stuff whatever they want in their bodies without a second thought about future results.
I believe there is a place for everyone and I will let puberty sort out the rest. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2016 : 10:45:40
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| Coaches are not players. I can't believe anyone is even making that ridiculous comparison. And how can anyone say that a 6'3" 225 lb kid is not a big kid?? That's NFL linebacker size. He may not be fat, but he's a big kid!! Once again, it comes down to strength and athleticism. Should overweight kids, pre-puberty, be given an opportunity to play? Absolutely. But, it will probably not be on the top, most competitive teams. Those teams will be looking to win now. On a lower level team, they can be developed and given a chance to improve in skills, strength and athleticism. This is just the reality of competitive sports. And once again, whether a coach is overweight or not has nothing to do with any of this. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2016 : 08:41:59
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While I hear what you guys are saying about bigger kids the point of the original post was that picking these bigger kids for their power hitting ability is counter productive. It's one of those instances where inexperienced coaches think "Oh yeah, that kid hit that ball near to the fence, I want him on my team"....but when that fence hit only gets the kid to 1B it's counter productive. Yes, he clears the bases of anyone that is on but what if he's the lead off that inning? What if the kid hitting behind him hits a bomb...you can only move as fast as the runner in front of you can move.
Every kid deserves the chance to play baseball. I know a VERY talented player who has a sharp mind, really good pitching skills, and loves the game but due to his body shape he will not be on a major team, he is relegated to AAA at best. This isn't because he doesn't have skill, it's because with that body type comes limitations on the bases and in the agility of the player on the field. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2016 : 16:49:02
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quote:
CaCO3Girl
Exactly what the post was meant to note. |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 09:59:06
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All comes down to how athletic the kid is. If a small kid is slow guess what you have the same problem but you also have a problem where that slow small kid can't hit the ball out of the infield so I would take the bigger kid if all other aspects are the same arm strength hustle baseball IQ. If a kid can pitch and he is overweight or super slow and hits for power but can't run he probably makes my team. It's still about improving and enjoying the game. Maybe the bigger kid sticks with baseball and loses weight and becomes faster, I have seen slow kids get fast and fast kids get slow. Until HS you really don't know what you got.
If you are saying baseball is not a game of giants I agree with that. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 15:40:50
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| There is definitely no more place for a tiny, weak, slow kid on a top team than the meatball who can only hit. However, it's true (generally speaking) unlike the other 2 of the big 3, the little guy can still make it happen in baseball.. PLENTY of little guys in the MLB (Dustin Pedroia comes to mind.) Unfortunately, the small kid often gets overlooked for the big one, or the chubby one gets dismissed, without the coach even seeing what he's got, which we all know can be surprising at the youth level. There is most definitely a place for EVERY kid in baseball who wants to play, but it is a fact that body type alone CAN hinder what level of team your kid ends up on. It should be a matter of the skill set more than the first impression of the kid's body .. how many of the 5 tools does the kid have? Most in youth baseball do not have all 5, but 4 of 5 is pretty good. Message to coaches: look at the overall package, and don't be biased with regard to the body. But as far as the COACH.... whether he is a totally fit stud, or someone who has had a few too many beers and chips on the couch..HIS body should have absolutely no bearing on his ability to field and instruct a winning team. Off the top of my head I can think of two guys who obviously have not been to the gym in a long, long time that field two of the VERY best top level teams out there. so coach size?? totally irrelevant!! |
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Baseball is not size dependent
