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Punishers
688 Posts |
 Posted - 11/11/2017 : 23:49:37
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It looks like PG has made a step in the right direction allowing 7U-12U to swing wood bats in lieu of of the new USA bat.
I see this a a big plus. Now if others would adopt the same that would be a good thing.
Beginning 1/1/2018
7U-12U:
The bat must be a baseball bat which meets the USA Baseball Bat standard (USABat) as adopted by Perfect Game, PGBA and PG Super25. It shall be a smooth, rounded stick, and made of wood or of material and color tested and proved acceptable to the USA Baseball Bat standard (USABat). Beginning with the 2018 season, non-wood and laminated bats shall bear the USA Baseball logo signifying that the bat meets the USABat – USA Baseball’s Youth Bat Performance Standard. All BPF – 1.15 bats will be prohibited beginning with the 2018 season. Additionally, starting in 2018, the bat diameter shall not exceed 2 5/8.
It shall not be more than 34" inches in length; nor more than 2 5/8 inches in diameter, and if wood, not less than fifteen-sixteenths (15/16) inches in diameter (7/8 inch for bats less than 30") at its smallest part. Wood bats taped or fitted with a sleeve may not exceed eighteen (18) inches from the small end.
NOTE: Solid one-piece wood barrel bats do not require a USA Baseball logo. No BBCOR allowed. |
Edited by - Punishers on 11/12/2017 00:41:56 |
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TaxiMom
149 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2017 : 16:53:44
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| What about 13U? Can you provide a link where PG has announced their new bat rules? I can't find it. Thanks. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2017 : 17:35:51
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| But not 13?! They are stuck with metal? |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2017 : 21:51:46
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| Link for bat restrictions can be found under every tournament section. for 13u, 1.15 BPF as long as it's a drop -5. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2017 : 10:15:07
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| Don't know anything about the new bat rules for 7-12U but I can tell you watching 7-12U players swing wood may be the most boring baseball ever. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2017 : 14:26:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Shut Out
Don't know anything about the new bat rules for 7-12U but I can tell you watching 7-12U players swing wood may be the most boring baseball ever.
Just like real baseball. Hits will be a premium.  |
Edited by - Punishers on 11/13/2017 17:39:46 |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2017 : 09:00:59
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| Hate to be redundant but I keep asking the same old question for those who think wood is boring or causes the kids to play poorly...didn't ANY of your kids play in youth wood bat tourneys??? They were GREAT and tons of fun! We all loved them! Someone please humor me and say they had a similar experience?! |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2017 : 11:24:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Hate to be redundant but I keep asking the same old question for those who think wood is boring or causes the kids to play poorly...didn't ANY of your kids play in youth wood bat tourneys??? They were GREAT and tons of fun! We all loved them! Someone please humor me and say they had a similar experience?!
My 10th grader still has the $20 black LS wood bat he broke in the 9u wood bat tourney, it's one of his favorite memories. That is also one of his coolest trophies over the years, it's actually a miniature wooden bat. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2017 : 12:20:51
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| All we every swung as kids were wood, team bats. Didn't play with any other bat. It was definitely fun. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2017 : 13:12:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Hate to be redundant but I keep asking the same old question for those who think wood is boring or causes the kids to play poorly...didn't ANY of your kids play in youth wood bat tourneys??? They were GREAT and tons of fun! We all loved them! Someone please humor me and say they had a similar experience?!
It's a novelty. Yes, have played in a FEW. Literally 1 per year. Some love it. MOST don't. Why? Success is hard to come by. Baseball is a hard enough sport, why further challenge 95% of the team further, and thus potentially turning more away from the sport. Because believe it or not, there are more than not, that play this game for FUN. Not much fun going 0-for the tourney, because the bat is too heavy, or a 9, 10, or 11 year old is required to produce ALL the power to get a 'hit' (cause the pitching speeds aren't doing much to help generate the power). |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2017 : 13:19:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Hate to be redundant but I keep asking the same old question for those who think wood is boring or causes the kids to play poorly...didn't ANY of your kids play in youth wood bat tourneys??? They were GREAT and tons of fun! We all loved them! Someone please humor me and say they had a similar experience?!
no fun to watch pitching dominate at the younger ages. I prefer to see more action in the field. The "novelty" of the wood bats wears off quick with you hit what you think is a laser in the gap and it turns out to be a routine fly ball. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2017 : 15:25:32
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| Turntwo and Shutout, that wasn't my sons experience. I will say I noticed more infield balls than outfield hit balls, but that's about all I will admit to. Wood bat tourneys were something I was told to dread, I saw no difference in where my son hit the ball with his drop 10 or his wooden bat at 9u or 15u. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2017 : 02:43:53
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I estimate that using wood would cut down about 75% of the hits we have seen, but this is real way the game should be played. Pitching does dominate baseball, that's why there are more pitchers than position players at higher levels. No more blow out scores. It seems like there is more fear of using wood than anything else. People would rather go out and pay $350 for a bat the mimics wood rather than use the real thing. Like I said before, "the ones who can hit, will". So the game gets too slow? Fine. There are other more active sports to play that will allow high scoring and more action. I predict there will be a lot of teams shying away from wood bat tourneys. I get it that people want to prolong reality. It also tarnishes the game unless you want a an old Little League home run show. My old coach used to tell us "the bat isn't heavy, you are swinging too slow". Wood strengthens batters to the point where they learn how to hit for average rather than flying ball up in the outfield for an easy out.
I hear all the hoo-haa excuses about using wood when there are youth level wood bats made by almost every wood bat manufacturer out there. Now that PG has made their move. What about you: Triple Crown, Training Legends, Grand Slam, and USSSA? Bad enough there are time limits. |
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JClemente
13 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2017 : 10:09:17
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| My father always told me that the "cream" always rises to the top! |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2017 : 10:35:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
I estimate that using wood would cut down about 75% of the hits we have seen, but this is real way the game should be played... I predict there will be a lot of teams shying away from wood bat tourneys. I get it that people want to prolong reality. It also tarnishes the game...
Delusion much? Do you think Bryan McCann, Jason Hayward, or Mike Trout ALWAYS used wood bats? Even back in t-ball? At some point, those and thousands of others had to develop a 'love for the game'. Where did that love stem from? Having 'success' (personally-- as in getting hits, hitting dingers, etc) may be what spurred their love or continued it. Were their hits 'fake'? 'False'? 'Inflated'? Because they used alloy or composite bats? Probably, yes. Is there really a problem in that? At 13U or so, and above, I agree it would be time to start focusing on wood and the 'real' game. But up until then, the game is meant to be FUN. With success (however 'false' it is).
Not everyone is such a 'purest'. I mean if we're going to complain about 'hot' bats, let's talk about why 8-12U can't wear steel cleats. Those should be legal. And why is the 'hard (spikes up) slide' taken away? That should be legal too. Mowing down the catcher too. That should be legal. Can't take the spiking or collision, don't play those positions. Same with beaming batters, or coaches. Get chirpy, expect to get ear-holed. Period. Same for you, base coach. Chirp some, and watch my 1B or 3B 'accidentally' miss a pick-off throw and you can wear it. You know, PURE or REAL baseball. Right?
Not everyone is from a 3rd world country that had to learn a 'trade' (whether it be baseball, plumbing, carpentry, etc) before they were 10 years old to have a better life for themselves. So why be so judgemental. Jealously?
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2017 : 15:40:58
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
I estimate that using wood would cut down about 75% of the hits we have seen, but this is real way the game should be played... I predict there will be a lot of teams shying away from wood bat tourneys. I get it that people want to prolong reality. It also tarnishes the game...
Delusion much? Do you think Bryan McCann, Jason Hayward, or Mike Trout ALWAYS used wood bats? Even back in t-ball? At some point, those and thousands of others had to develop a 'love for the game'. Where did that love stem from? Having 'success' (personally-- as in getting hits, hitting dingers, etc) may be what spurred their love or continued it. Were their hits 'fake'? 'False'? 'Inflated'? Because they used alloy or composite bats? Probably, yes. Is there really a problem in that? At 13U or so, and above, I agree it would be time to start focusing on wood and the 'real' game. But up until then, the game is meant to be FUN. With success (however 'false' it is).
Not everyone is such a 'purest'. I mean if we're going to complain about 'hot' bats, let's talk about why 8-12U can't wear steel cleats. Those should be legal. And why is the 'hard (spikes up) slide' taken away? That should be legal too. Mowing down the catcher too. That should be legal. Can't take the spiking or collision, don't play those positions. Same with beaming batters, or coaches. Get chirpy, expect to get ear-holed. Period. Same for you, base coach. Chirp some, and watch my 1B or 3B 'accidentally' miss a pick-off throw and you can wear it. You know, PURE or REAL baseball. Right?
Not everyone is from a 3rd world country that had to learn a 'trade' (whether it be baseball, plumbing, carpentry, etc) before they were 10 years old to have a better life for themselves. So why be so judgemental. Jealously?
Who says it will not be fun and people won't still love the game? Back in my day, we played with wood and it was all fun. Not inflated like it is now with the bat doctoring going on. I can smell the fear.
Born, raised and educated in the grand ol'e USA. It's not my fault people are raising privileged weaklings while giving the illusion of success with a handicap bat. You want to play the game, but not play it the right way. It's like people complaining that a D1 school didn't offer my kid a scholarship because he wasn't 6'2". There is no substitution. The game has been around a lot longer than any of us and the equipment is still the same. It's not technology, it's a handicap. Maybe you can click and point the play for your kid. I'm sure that will work out just fine. |
Edited by - Punishers on 11/15/2017 16:56:20 |
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BaseballMom6
233 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2017 : 22:27:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
I estimate that using wood would cut down about 75% of the hits we have seen, but this is real way the game should be played... I predict there will be a lot of teams shying away from wood bat tourneys. I get it that people want to prolong reality. It also tarnishes the game...
Delusion much? Do you think Bryan McCann, Jason Hayward, or Mike Trout ALWAYS used wood bats? Even back in t-ball? At some point, those and thousands of others had to develop a 'love for the game'. Where did that love stem from? Having 'success' (personally-- as in getting hits, hitting dingers, etc) may be what spurred their love or continued it. Were their hits 'fake'? 'False'? 'Inflated'? Because they used alloy or composite bats? Probably, yes. Is there really a problem in that? At 13U or so, and above, I agree it would be time to start focusing on wood and the 'real' game. But up until then, the game is meant to be FUN. With success (however 'false' it is).
Not everyone is such a 'purest'. I mean if we're going to complain about 'hot' bats, let's talk about why 8-12U can't wear steel cleats. Those should be legal. And why is the 'hard (spikes up) slide' taken away? That should be legal too. Mowing down the catcher too. That should be legal. Can't take the spiking or collision, don't play those positions. Same with beaming batters, or coaches. Get chirpy, expect to get ear-holed. Period. Same for you, base coach. Chirp some, and watch my 1B or 3B 'accidentally' miss a pick-off throw and you can wear it. You know, PURE or REAL baseball. Right?
Not everyone is from a 3rd world country that had to learn a 'trade' (whether it be baseball, plumbing, carpentry, etc) before they were 10 years old to have a better life for themselves. So why be so judgemental. Jealously?
Who says it will not be fun and people won't still love the game? Back in my day, we played with wood and it was all fun. Not inflated like it is now with the bat doctoring going on. I can smell the fear.
Born, raised and educated in the grand ol'e USA. It's not my fault people are raising privileged weaklings while giving the illusion of success with a handicap bat. You want to play the game, but not play it the right way. It's like people complaining that a D1 school didn't offer my kid a scholarship because he wasn't 6'2". There is no substitution. The game has been around a lot longer than any of us and the equipment is still the same. It's not technology, it's a handicap. Maybe you can click and point the play for your kid. I'm sure that will work out just fine.
The equipment is not still the same. Just look at the gloves, balls, batting helmets, catcher's gear, cleats. So all the other gear can evolve, but not the precious bat? College plays with metal bats, and a whole helluva lot more kids will play in college than will ever go on to the pros. |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2017 : 07:54:56
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What about the weight of the bat? I would assume most 9 year olds are swinging a drop 10 28 inch bat. To get the same weight drop 3 wood bat, they are now swinging a 21 inch bat. If they stay with say a 27 inch bat, they are now swinging a bat that weighs 24 ounces, or 33% heavier. Are the kids going to develop good mechanics?
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2017 : 09:35:54
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
I estimate that using wood would cut down about 75% of the hits we have seen, but this is real way the game should be played... I predict there will be a lot of teams shying away from wood bat tourneys. I get it that people want to prolong reality. It also tarnishes the game...
Delusion much? Do you think Bryan McCann, Jason Hayward, or Mike Trout ALWAYS used wood bats? Even back in t-ball? At some point, those and thousands of others had to develop a 'love for the game'. Where did that love stem from? Having 'success' (personally-- as in getting hits, hitting dingers, etc) may be what spurred their love or continued it. Were their hits 'fake'? 'False'? 'Inflated'? Because they used alloy or composite bats? Probably, yes. Is there really a problem in that? At 13U or so, and above, I agree it would be time to start focusing on wood and the 'real' game. But up until then, the game is meant to be FUN. With success (however 'false' it is).
Not everyone is such a 'purest'. I mean if we're going to complain about 'hot' bats, let's talk about why 8-12U can't wear steel cleats. Those should be legal. And why is the 'hard (spikes up) slide' taken away? That should be legal too. Mowing down the catcher too. That should be legal. Can't take the spiking or collision, don't play those positions. Same with beaming batters, or coaches. Get chirpy, expect to get ear-holed. Period. Same for you, base coach. Chirp some, and watch my 1B or 3B 'accidentally' miss a pick-off throw and you can wear it. You know, PURE or REAL baseball. Right?
Not everyone is from a 3rd world country that had to learn a 'trade' (whether it be baseball, plumbing, carpentry, etc) before they were 10 years old to have a better life for themselves. So why be so judgemental. Jealously?
WOW!
I personally think Bryan McCann, Jason Hayward, and Mike Trout hit to the wall with wood bats or metal bats. There are kids where it makes little to no difference what bat they are using.
Wood lets you know who has skill in hitting and who has been pretending. The parents on this board seem to think there is ONE way to build a baseball player and that's by holding him very carefully and following the progression laid out by the bat companies, complete with ALL transition bats. Since baseball has had some amazing hitters since the 1800's and all they had was wood I'm thinking it didn't harm any of them to swing it when they were 4 or 14! Today we are too busy building robots that all look the same to care that the old days had some unorthodox mechanics and yet they were effective! |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2017 : 10:22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
What about the weight of the bat? I would assume most 9 year olds are swinging a drop 10 28 inch bat. To get the same weight drop 3 wood bat, they are now swinging a 21 inch bat. If they stay with say a 27 inch bat, they are now swinging a bat that weighs 24 ounces, or 33% heavier. Are the kids going to develop good mechanics?
100% agree. If they don't have the strength to swing it right, why screw it up-- early. I've seen 9 yr olds, who are 4'5" 60 lbs swinging 30 or 31" -10 bats... With UGLY swings. I think the adage of: just because you can, doesn't mean you should, comes into play. Having a 9 year old swing a -3 28" wood bat is akin to having him throw a curve ball. If he can do it, why not? PLENTY rant about 'younger kids' throwing the deuce, for fear of injury or developing bad habits, yet -3 bats are perfectly fine. Ya know, since they did it way back when.
Again, I'm not against wood. Just think it's silly/short-sighted to do it (more than just an occasional novelty) at younger ages. I would rather my son learn the fundamentals and have perfected (nearly) a good form and swing, with an appropriate length/weighted bat before prematurely introducing a heavier bat.
Who, in their infamous wisdom, came up with -5 and/or -3 bats rules AT CERTAIN ages to begin with? Could it be, that once a young man is 13-15 years old, his body (re: puberty and muscle development) has progressed enough that he should be able to handle -5 to -3 far better? Or, for you purest, is this another 'watering down' of the game, and again, 40-60 pound 8-9 yr olds should be swinging -3 as well.... |
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Cajunjeep
31 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2017 : 10:23:47
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| not getting into the argument one way or the other, but @DecaturDad you do realize there are TONS of companies that make youth wood bats right? Drop 7-10 bats that smaller kids can use. |
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2017 : 10:32:28
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The bat companies only make what they can sell, if no one buys it, they will stop making it. The one-size-fits-all does not apply to bats, it is a progression...as the kids get bigger/stronger/older you will need a different bat.
I guess if we didn't want progression in sports, then we would have 8 and 9 year olds pitching from 60'6". How about 8 or 9 year olds using a regulation sized NBA basketball or NFL football.
The game has changed tremendously, the skill level of the players are more advanced than ever before and at a much younger age. Then add in, they are also bigger, faster, and stronger. So, for every action (what I just mentioned) there is a reaction (bats are evolving). And once the bats are out there and they suck (BBCOR), they change the ball to help alleviate that. The balls in college reportedly fly 20 feet further and the previous ball. So, did we fix a problem and make the game safer by changing the bat, probably not. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2017 : 13:49:33
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The smaller fields were made to accommodate smaller people so they could learn how to play the game correctly. The throw from 1st to 3rd should not include hops.
The arm length of a 9 year old doesn't accommodate 33 inch bats. The accommodation made was bats that are 26, 27, 28 inches in length.
Give your kid a wooden bat at the proper length for his height and arm length and he will be fine. This notion that a 9 year old can't swing a wooden bat is silly folks, It's like a pound and a half! The difference between a drop 3 and a drop 10 is literally 7 ounces, that's not even half a pound, he has SHOES that weight more! I'm pretty sure they can catch up to the 40 mph pitching, while swinging wood, LOL!!!!
Have to love those bat marketing departments, they really have you all duped!
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2017 : 23:11:26
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| I agree completely caco3. Really if all players hit with wood bats at all ages, none of the kids would even know the difference! I seriously doubt kids would quit playing baseball over it b/c the "lack of confidence" argument doesn't apply when they all use the standard tool. And I happen to have a small kid so I fully get the idea that it's harder to do than with a poppy zen. So if you aren't the greatest hitter without your metal bat, then prove yourself somewhere else. Be the best fielder, best pitcher etc. Maybe parents would quit the sport because it's too boring to watch without all the monster hits, but kids...mine would use a golf club or a log. He loves the sport..the SPORT, not only when he can slug it. As far as mechanics, I would say they would gradually learn better mechanics using the real thing over time, because come 15, all the tournaments are wood, and the best teams make their players use it, even when metal is allowed. If all you've ever hit with is wood, the learning curve is..zero! As far as comparing it to other technology, newer catchers gear doesn't make you catch better than you would otherwise. Newer gloves don't make you field better than you are capable of otherwise. But techno bats DO make you hit better than you would otherwise. My son has never been the best hitter on his team, regardless of bat. But he does love his wood bats!!!! Not hitting dingers has never scared him away from baseball and chances are it wouldn't destroy anyone else's kids either! |
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2017 : 06:56:48
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| I am all for wood bats, but starting at 13, maybe 12. Having kids below that age swinging wood exclusively would be counter productive in my opinion. Most would not be strong enough, sure they can swing the bat, but how much impact would their swing have on the ball with them not getting any help from the bat. Well, one thing for sure, the infielders will be getting a lot of practice and games would rarely see more than 5 runs scored, total. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2017 : 09:41:54
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quote:
Originally posted by bama21
I am all for wood bats, but starting at 13, maybe 12. Having kids below that age swinging wood exclusively would be counter productive in my opinion. Most would not be strong enough, sure they can swing the bat, but how much impact would their swing have on the ball with them not getting any help from the bat. Well, one thing for sure, the infielders will be getting a lot of practice and games would rarely see more than 5 runs scored, total.
Sounds GREAT! Who knows, they may be able to get past 3 innings in the allotted time rather than each side switching after 7 runs have been scored in the 10u game that had a final score of 21-17! I have an 8u basketball player who's games sometimes don't reach that score, LOL!!!!! |
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Wood Bats Allowed at PG 7U-12U
