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 13U General Discussion
 Huge Change in Major Level Landscape
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CaCO3Girl

1884 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2018 :  07:06:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo

quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl

I have heard at least 20 stories of chasing plastic trophies in youth ball ruining a kids arm so he can barely play high school and college is out without surgery.... I hope someone tells his parents to have a talk with the coach.



Your broad-brush, yet extremely limited experience and little examples, doesn't offer much constructive insight or value here. Every player/pitcher is different. Some arms have 10 Billion throws in them, some have 10 thousand. Sure, arm-care is important, but gracious because you've heard, or seen, then that's the way it should be for ALL? What if the pitcher in question, is actually 14, but a 7th grader, does that change your stance on the number of pitches? What if the parent of the pitcher is an orthopedist? Or a physical therapist? And the parent may actually know MORE than you, and the "20 you've heard about"?



Every arm is very different, but one thing is constant, overuse hurts arms. Throwing high velo, meaning 75+ at this age, coupled with 90+ pitches every week for 4 or 5 months....people get your head out of sand. It has nothing to do with ramping up or time of the season, it has to do with developing muscles and tissues being put under extreme stress repeatedly, which lays a foundation that has long lasting repercussions.

Go on the high school or college boards and talk about a 13u throwing 90 pitches repeatedly and you will hear from the people who have been there, done that, and paid for the surgeries. My son's high school coach doesn't even like the 90 pitch count cap, he caps kids at 80 and lets them finish the batter. Now who knows more about arm care, a former D1 pitcher coaching high school Varsity or a 13u coach?

If there is a 1% chance that I'm right, do you really want to risk your kids arms? 13u is 60 pitches tops, talk to your kids coaches, tell them this is what you want for YOUR kids health.
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Bravemom

190 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2018 :  11:39:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://asmiforum.proboards.com
http://m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/pitching-guidelines/
http://community.hsbaseballweb.com

I hear ya Cgirl! After my sonís injury I realized how ignorant I was. I became good friends with a Sports ortho surgeon and a sports PT. Those are the guys parents shoukd be talking too and getting guidance, not a travel team coach.

I donít think there is intent , just lack of awareness and it wonít happen to my kid. Folks like to use the Pitchsmart count limit...BUT do they follow all of the other requirements listed for the age group? No throwing for four months...limited number of inngs...etc. I have attached several links for parents to read and understand so that are better informed. Once informed you can make an educated decision about your son.


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TaxiMom

142 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2018 :  12:24:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On our 12-boy roster, right now, one has little league shoulder, another has little league elbow, another (mine) has had some shoulder pain, and a fourth had bicep pain last weekend. I don't think ANY are from overuse -- our coach is fantastic and very cognizant of arm health -- but these kids are growing. With growth comes weak connective tissue, more prone to injury. Some kids probably more prone than others. The risk is high enough without throwing overuse into it......IMHO, all kids should stay below those pitch smart limits. Too many regret it later.......
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CaCO3Girl

1884 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2018 :  06:55:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bravemom

http://asmiforum.proboards.com
http://m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/pitching-guidelines/
http://community.hsbaseballweb.com

I hear ya Cgirl! After my sonís injury I realized how ignorant I was. I became good friends with a Sports ortho surgeon and a sports PT. Those are the guys parents shoukd be talking too and getting guidance, not a travel team coach.

I donít think there is intent , just lack of awareness and it wonít happen to my kid. Folks like to use the Pitchsmart count limit...BUT do they follow all of the other requirements listed for the age group? No throwing for four months...limited number of inngs...etc. I have attached several links for parents to read and understand so that are better informed. Once informed you can make an educated decision about your son.


Yup! How do kids in baseball hotbeds like FL and GA take 4 months off? Fall ball is August-October, high school starts in January, Spring ball is May-July....it's just not possible. I put my kid in shutdown for at least 8 weeks, but still, I worry. At least he isn't doing the catcher and pitcher thing, but many high school age kids still are.

I posted this question on the high school board, here is what they had to say:

http://community.hsbaseballweb.com/topic/13u-repeatedly-throwing-90-pitches-is-no-big-deal?reply=50150231082640492#50150231082640492
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redsox23

91 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2018 :  00:37:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
CaCO3, read the link you posted. Many opinions without knowing the real facts of the players situation. Does the pitcher play multiple sports? Maybe the spring season is the only one they play/pitch ( even in hotbeds like GA and FL). So they do get a shut down period and don't get over used. Spring Season can be Feb-July, but what if it is March to June (like our current team) and he gets 12 starts, that's it and doesn't throw back to back days? He is shut down from July thru November, starts winter workouts in December and starts throwing program in January to be ready for start of season in March. Even in hotbeds like FL and GA, a kid who is beast and loves the game, can get his time off. Nobody turns them away as a "spring only" player. Most times on these boards, everyone calls fall results BS anyway.
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CaCO3Girl

1884 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2018 :  10:59:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by redsox23

CaCO3, read the link you posted. Many opinions without knowing the real facts of the players situation. Does the pitcher play multiple sports? Maybe the spring season is the only one they play/pitch ( even in hotbeds like GA and FL). So they do get a shut down period and don't get over used. Spring Season can be Feb-July, but what if it is March to June (like our current team) and he gets 12 starts, that's it and doesn't throw back to back days? He is shut down from July thru November, starts winter workouts in December and starts throwing program in January to be ready for start of season in March. Even in hotbeds like FL and GA, a kid who is beast and loves the game, can get his time off. Nobody turns them away as a "spring only" player. Most times on these boards, everyone calls fall results BS anyway.



Is there a possibility that the kid is 13u and playing multiple sports and ONLY pitching 12 weeks of the year...yeah...and there is a possibility I will win the lottery, but it's a rare possibility. A dominating 13u pitcher isn't likely to not pitch in the fall as well, and maybe on a middle school team, or next year he could be a 9th grader and play for high school too.

Also, I'm talking long term...your looking at right now. Did you know 15u teams have a tough time playing at PG events in the fall? The reason is that fall ball is grouped by graduating class, so those blend of 15u teams that have both 9th and 10th graders have to play up. So what's my point in that? It's that Fall ball becomes pretty important since that is the time the college coaches have to go look at kids. During their season and I think until June they can't go meet with 11th graders. They can see 12th graders as of 3/1, but this is a pretty small window in Spring....it's June-October that these coaches are out looking at kids. So while Fall ball may not be important for 9u it's VERY important for 14u and above.
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agent21

95 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2018 :  13:42:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So by 9th/10th grade they have to decide between football and baseball? Is there any way to take fall baseball completely off to play football? Vice versa, can a football player take the summer off to play travel baseball?
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CaCO3Girl

1884 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2018 :  06:59:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by agent21

So by 9th/10th grade they have to decide between football and baseball? Is there any way to take fall baseball completely off to play football? Vice versa, can a football player take the summer off to play travel baseball?



Generally the kids who still play football in high school are the position layers in baseball, not the pitchers. However, I have heard of a couple of kids who are pitchers and also QB's. They play football in the fall, come in for baseball games on the weekends if they are up for it, but generally only play baseball in Spring/Summer. Each coach has their own take on this. I know one kid who is nationally ranked in Football and baseball and their football coach is giving them grief about not being there in the summer for Football. Personally I think that coach needs to get his head out of his rear area.
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Crazyforbball

334 Posts

Posted - 04/17/2018 :  07:22:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are a number of kids who do both. The expectations vary. A lot depends on how valuable the player is. There are several kids I know who got a pass on fall ball from their travel team to do football, but these are D1 baseball commits. Not sure how or if that translates to the rest of the kids, but by jr or sr year there are not many that are starters on both so, for example, a baseball starter probably is glad to give up a season on the bench in football to get on the baseball field and play.

Edited by - Crazyforbball on 04/17/2018 09:33:08
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