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who
24 Posts |
 Posted - 07/11/2010 : 15:22:14
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Our son is dealing with his first arm injury due to overuse. He is 11. Now, moving forward we want to make sure that it doesn't happen in the future. For those who have gotten their boys through the travel season without injury - can you share? What type of questions do you reccomend asking a coach before joining a team. Do you have set guidelines on your team for pitch count and rest times? With 2-3 day tournaments how have you been able to give adequate rest to your key pitchers while staying competitive.
What have you seen that has been successful in protecting young arms and what would you do differently? Thanks for the advice. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 16:50:17
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| Jaeger Bands in off season and during the season - 3-4 times per week. Over emphasize stretching. Also, during the season, ice elbow and shoulder after throwing....even if it doesn't hurt and also gradually utilize long toss into his regime. If it still hurts really bad...rest, rest and more rest ! |
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bambino_dad
119 Posts |
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atlbaseball
17 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 18:04:25
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Take a look at Dr. Andrews (if you don't know who he is find out now before you have to take your son to him) Stop Sports Injuries campaign here...
www.stopsportsinjuries.org
He has a tip sheet that you can print out and hand to the coaches to let them know what you expect...if you don't look out for your son no one else will and there are plenty of coaches that are too focused on winning the hardware or ignorant of the game that they just don't know better.
No way your son should have arm issues at 11..one of Dr. Andrews rules...if you are not old enough to shave...you are not old enough to throw a curve ball. |
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3sondad
220 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 19:31:14
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quote:
Originally posted by who
Our son is dealing with his first arm injury due to overuse. He is 11. Now, moving forward we want to make sure that it doesn't happen in the future. For those who have gotten their boys through the travel season without injury - can you share? What type of questions do you reccomend asking a coach before joining a team. Do you have set guidelines on your team for pitch count and rest times? With 2-3 day tournaments how have you been able to give adequate rest to your key pitchers while staying competitive.
What have you seen that has been successful in protecting young arms and what would you do differently? Thanks for the advice.
Sorry to hear ... Here is an interview with UVA coach.
http://www.clubhousegas.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=20:uva-pitching-coach-karl-kuhn&catid=25:shows-on-demand&Itemid=3 |
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who
24 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 21:22:59
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| Thank you very much for all the feedback. He has not been throwing any breaking balls. His injury is from throwing too many innings in a short period of time. Trying to learn more about the balance between letting him pitch and not causing injury. Wish we had educated ourselves better. Hope others will take the time to become better educated to help prevent other potential injuries. |
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RJ CJDAD
51 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 23:30:21
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Who
I have my son start throwing ONLY after he has stretched. He'll throw 5 - stretch - throw 5 - stretch and moving back after he feels comfortable. He also stretches his arm on the fence. His coach understands that this is HIS warm up and it must be done. He does this every day with 2 days a week doing super long tosses in our yard. He throws into a bucket that is laying on its side and tries to throw into the bucket with only one hop. I hope his arm is feeling better but stretch...stretch...stretch is the best advice. Make sure he tells you when his arm hurts. Make sure he tells the coach and the coach is listening. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 08:07:15
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Who
wondering if you had any updates for your son's arm issue and how his arm did this season or is doing?. Going through a overuse injury right now for our son. |
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Outtahere
43 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 11:51:25
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Who,
I agree with all. Also, make sure you have him with a coach who is conservative on his pitch counts and doesn't rely on USSSA, TC, etc. to police the counts for them. A good coach cares about your son's arm more than winning a $6 trophy. Best of luck to you and your son! |
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RungUp
3 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 13:44:53
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Who,
I really hate to hear about that for an 11 y/o. I would honestly like to learn from this post since you were passionate enough to post[thank you], about how it happen . I have no interest in the coach or team that you play with, but I am interested in the things leading up to it. Some questions I have would be:
1. Were you practicing much before he went to pitch in what I can only assume was a tournamount. If it was a tournamount was there a pitch limit.
2. Did he pitch more than one time in a game/day, or did he pitch on 2 consecutive days or even 3.
3. Did he pitch a ton of pitches each game or day
4. Did he show signs of laboring or tireing or was he like most boys and was just into the moment.
5. Did the coach ever go out and talk to him and see how he was feeling?
6. If you were there, did you ever feel in your heart/gut, think it was time to pull him. If so, did you say anything to the coach. [i watch mine like a hawk]
7. Was the game you think he pushed his limit a brackett game or for the championship [thats where I see this the most]
8. Was anybody on the team, coaches or parents keeping pitch count, either by the books/game changer/ i score
9. Is your son's arm hurt enough that you visited a doctor, or is it just very sore. I know my son will tell me the next day/morning his arm/shoulder is a little tender if he threw more pitches in an inning than usual.
10. Do you blame yourself entirely for not knowing or feel the like others could have helped prevent it.
If any of this, you are not comfortable answering thats fine. My only interest is to learn from the types of situations these bad things can happen.
thank you |
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stixxbaseball10
14 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 17:00:11
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| Dr. Andrews and the University of NC released 2 studies back in the spring that concluded: 1)OVERUSE and FATIGUE are the overwhelming causes of arm injuries. 2)A fastball puts more stress on your arm than a curveball.There was no proof in the studies that curveballs caused arm injuries. This study was requested by Little League Baseball. Overuse is the key!!Period!! If you are looking for a team ,and want to avoid arm injuries, just ask the coach how many pitchers he has. Make sure they have plenty of depth at the position. We always put our pitchers on a 25 pitch count for saturday pool play regardless of the score. |
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who
24 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 21:55:14
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| Our injury happened the summer of 2010. My son was shut down for about 8 weeks and then was in physical therapy for several months. Luckily he healed and had a successful season pitching 2011 at 12U. We learned so much during that time about the importance of conditioning, mechanics, rest between outings, pitch count and watching for fatigue. We were also fortunate this past season to have a coach that did a great job looking out for the arm health of his players. |
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Steel-Will
278 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 22:04:57
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quote:
Originally posted by stixxbaseball10
We always put our pitchers on a 25 pitch count for saturday pool play regardless of the score.
Great ideal. Never heard of that being done. For 2 pool play games, you probably have to use 5 to 7 pitchers typically?
It's kind of a tough position as a bad pool play record can force you to have more bracket games and thus need more pitchers while solid pitching and hitting could get you a run-rule game allowing you to save innings.
It's a fine balance! |
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stixxbaseball10
14 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 13:49:33
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| We had 10 players that could pitch and be effective. Health comes before wins, always ,regardless of your pool play record. |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 15:20:57
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I hate to hear this, and absolutely hate to hear it regarding overuse.. I hope he is doing better now.
To me, at any age group, there should never be an issue of overuse - kids throwing 6+ innings every weekend, for what? a piece of plastic?
I've been pretty fortunate with my son and our teams over the years - no one had hurt their arms over baseball, although we've had some whiffleball and Wii related injuries!
We keep the kids on a pretty strict throwing program and we keep them limited to 50 pitches a weekend, spring or fall.. Good rule of thumb and it seems to work for us - it forces you to develop your pitching...
Personally, for my son I incorporate some long toss a few seasons back and we build up the distance as the season progresses - it seems to help quite a bit with arm strength, as well as when transitioning mound distances. He also spends a good deal of time stretching and warming up before he throws.
I can't say I am on the same page with ice - it's one of those once you start you will never stop things, so we never started, and rarely do.
Stixx said it best about curveballs - it's not the curveball that causes arm issues, it's improper mechanics and overuse.
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xyzbaseball
27 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 23:10:26
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| A lot of good info on this topic. However, I was glad to see someone say it is not curveballs, but improper mechanics and overuse. I have seen that hard throwers have much more arm trouble. Overhand pitching is not a normal motion for your arm. So it is imperitive that your kid warms up and streches himself out well. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 12:13:17
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| I think the jury is still out on icing after pitching vs heat, longtoss vs shortoss, lifting vs stretching, stretching after throwing vs stretching before. Flexibility being good for pitchers Flexibility being bad for pitchers. I don't think anyone know exactly which mechanics are better vs others, but all I know is any ballistic explosive movement whether its throwing a baseball, softball, shotput, hitting, kicking, they all cause stress at some point in the body and sometimes nothing can be done to stop injuries but I do think overuse without proper rest is #1 culprit to any injury. |
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LittleDawg
91 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 08:03:44
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ramman999 and HITANDRUN nailed it in both posts.
Rest is key |
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LilBigTown
115 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 09:42:46
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| I took my son to Resurgens at age 10 because of an arm injury... Interesting note. " Only year he has played without pitching," He was a centerfielder and was believed to be caused from overuse at practice and long throws home in maybe the 3rd inning of a game 40 minutes after warmup was complete.... Just something to consider... Now 3 years later he pitches alot an has had no injuries... Go Figure???? |
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rustybucket
67 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 13:29:48
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We are only 9u but implemented a stringent arm care program when our team entered 8u (still coach pitch). We use modified Jaeger bands before every practice and before and during every game. When a pitcher steps off the mound (in-between innings) during a game he does a routine with the Jaegers and his reps equal the number of pitches he threw.
We do long toss quite often during practice to help condition the arms. We throw a LOT during practice as well.
I think one of the keys to preventing arm injuries in youth is properly conditioning the arm. I think the term 'over-use' gets confused with 'under-conditioned' in the younger ages.
We also started using shoulder tubes this year in addition to the jaegers. We also implement heavy and light balls throughout the year.
One MAJOR key is to warm up the arm before you EVER pickup a baseball!! Our players do arm circles, flaps and flys in addition to jaeger bands before they ever begin their throwing warmups.
Here's a link to a pitching bootcamp we did earlier this year, kinda outlines some of our conditioning techniques.
http://leatherbusters.com/2013/01/18/pitching-bootcamp-2013/
We keep VERY close tally on pitch counts (warmup pitches and in-game pitches) and slowly build up a pitchers count limit as their conditioning improves.
We used to ice after games but this year we implemented a cool-down workout option for the players to try out. We will see how that goes! |
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T13
257 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 20:18:33
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| Way too many doctor-coaches on this site who are experts on the arm/shoulder of a 10 year old. All kids are different and develop differently. Not sure you can condition a kids arm who doesn't even know what puberty is yet. Too many think they have to treat their kid like a college or professional player. Let your kid rest after he pitches on a weekend (that means let him be a kid the next week!), no need to touch a ball until Thursday at best. Cconditioning an arm of a 9 year old is crazy. Pitching is bad for you no matter what you do and no matter what your age. The only constant you get from every REAL doctor is that they need to rest, rest, rest (i.e. don't run your kid out for long toss two days after he pitches because you think it will help him become the next Nolan Ryan)! |
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rustybucket
67 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 22:14:34
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quote:
Originally posted by T13
Way too many doctor-coaches on this site who are experts on the arm/shoulder of a 10 year old. All kids are different and develop differently. Not sure you can condition a kids arm who doesn't even know what puberty is yet. Too many think they have to treat their kid like a college or professional player. Let your kid rest after he pitches on a weekend (that means let him be a kid the next week!), no need to touch a ball until Thursday at best. Cconditioning an arm of a 9 year old is crazy. Pitching is bad for you no matter what you do and no matter what your age. The only constant you get from every REAL doctor is that they need to rest, rest, rest (i.e. don't run your kid out for long toss two days after he pitches because you think it will help him become the next Nolan Ryan)!
Ok, so if I'm hearing you right... Pitch them on Saturday, let them play X-Box til Thursday and then they'll be good...?
Never said any of my pitchers would be the next Nolan Ryan, just know that what I did when I was a kid was NOT the right way (pitch on Saturday and then rest until I pitched again).
The problem with this discussion is there is no 'real' answer. There never will be a true answer for every player. The inning count isn't a good judge b/c an inning can get out of hand quickly and pitches will add up.
It is quite ironic that you bring Nolan Ryan into this discussion though. He's a HUGE advocate for letting pitchers go deeper into games and pitch higher pitch counts. He also used to drive nails into softballs to make them heavier so he could throw them. He also threw the football quite often. He was big on conditioning and throwing a LOT.
If we left it completely up to the doctors they would say never pitch. Sadly arm injuries are always possible no matter what you do. I never said what we do is the silver bullet for never having arm injuries, just wanted to share for those interested. |
Edited by - rustybucket on 02/13/2013 08:14:08 |
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nastycurve
244 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 23:29:02
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| who is Nolan Ryan? |
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spike
41 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2013 : 05:50:42
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| Not only count pitches including warm ups but count throws from catcher ..I know 2 catchers who had arm surgery at age 13 |
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T13
257 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2013 : 09:24:58
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| I was speaking in general terms not to anyone specific...too many parents forget they are just kids and need to have fun! |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2013 : 10:15:06
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| I am not a doctor although I train athletes and I can tell you throwing a baseball is rotator cuff training. I would not recommend using bands after throwing, but I would say the next day or two. What I would recommend is stretching both the arm, the hips and legs after pitching. |
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Preventing arm injuries
