| Author |
 Topic  |
|
2019bsbl
14 Posts |
 Posted - 07/29/2018 : 18:41:03
|
| Should a high school age baseball player, play summer ball with his class or play with his age? For example, a sophomore is suppose to play 16u, but could be young enough to meet the age requirements for 15u. |
|
|
KentMurphy
96 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2018 : 20:09:17
|
| If he's serious about 'the next level', he'll be perceived as "playing down" if he's class of 2020, yet playing among 2021's. Play on your grad year, you'll be taken more seriously, AND if any doubt, he'll be considered a "young 2020" (re: more project-able) |
 |
|
|
Longlivebaseball
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2018 : 07:57:27
|
| Play on the best team you can get playing time and exposure on. If he can play on a much better 15u team then 16u team play on the one that gives him the best opportunity to be seen. Scouts will walk away from bad teams at PG so play where you think gives him the best chance to shine. |
|
|
|
tbaillie2
120 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2018 : 08:25:15
|
| IMO when you hit 14u play with your class (so go from 12u to 14u). |
|
|
|
hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2018 : 08:43:18
|
I was told that a player should play on the team with the most prospects for maximum exposure.
For example, it would be better to play on a really good 15U team versus an average 16U team. Most teams will play up a few times each summer anyway.
Now, all things being equal and you have the opportunity to play on a really good 16U team and a really good 15U team. Personally, I would choose the 16U team. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2018 : 12:48:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by KentMurphy
If he's serious about 'the next level', he'll be perceived as "playing down" if he's class of 2020, yet playing among 2021's. Play on your grad year, you'll be taken more seriously, AND if any doubt, he'll be considered a "young 2020" (re: more project-able)
I use to think that way too, I was wrong. Here is what I've seen:
1. It's not considered playing down, it's playing with the kids you have always played with and if you are on a super duper 15u team then they will be seen at the bog events much better than a not so great 16u team.
2. Projectable only counts for draft picks, it's not what they look at in college. They look for right now, who can help me? That is why the projectable kids go to JUCO, and not D1.
My kid IS a young 2020, he will start his junior year on Wednesday and he will do it while being 15. He will attend camps this fall, he's done a PBR showcase which is far cheaper than a PG event, and he's on a team that either makes bracket or shows fairly well in the PG tourneys. What's better is he's having fun playing with and against the kids he has played with and against since 6u. I moved him from 12u to 14u, he didn't like it because he didn't know anyone...where is the fun in that? It's still a game and it's still supposed to be fun. |
|
|
|
KentMurphy
96 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2018 : 10:06:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
[quote]What's better is he's having fun playing with and against the kids he has played with and against since 6u. I moved him from 12u to 14u, he didn't like it because he didn't know anyone...where is the fun in that? It's still a game and it's still supposed to be fun.
Opinions vary. And I'd have a better time listening to HShuler, who's son has been through it, and been very successful, than someone who quantifies their statement with "fun".
I get the 'exposure' of playing on better teams, to make it deeper in bracket and seen by more, but... I ask this, in high school do you tryout as JUST a 2020? or JUST a 2022? Nope. 14 year olds are trying out and competing with 17 year olds. Some kids they don't know. Some kids they've never played with/against. I guess high school ball isn't "fun" in that aspect either.
Maybe your 2020 made the JV team the past couple of years, and somewhat contributed, but since he CAN play 'down' and be the 'stud' with his buddies, let's let him do that instead of playing against those who he's truly measured against-- his graduating class. Ya know, for fun. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2018 : 11:13:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by KentMurphy
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
[quote]What's better is he's having fun playing with and against the kids he has played with and against since 6u. I moved him from 12u to 14u, he didn't like it because he didn't know anyone...where is the fun in that? It's still a game and it's still supposed to be fun.
Opinions vary. And I'd have a better time listening to HShuler, who's son has been through it, and been very successful, than someone who quantifies their statement with "fun".
I get the 'exposure' of playing on better teams, to make it deeper in bracket and seen by more, but... I ask this, in high school do you tryout as JUST a 2020? or JUST a 2022? Nope. 14 year olds are trying out and competing with 17 year olds. Some kids they don't know. Some kids they've never played with/against. I guess high school ball isn't "fun" in that aspect either.
Maybe your 2020 made the JV team the past couple of years, and somewhat contributed, but since he CAN play 'down' and be the 'stud' with his buddies, let's let him do that instead of playing against those who he's truly measured against-- his graduating class. Ya know, for fun.
HA, I talk to Hshuler daily and his kid is an entirely different spectrum than 99% of the kids...also he doesn't have a summer b-day :- ) Plus, his advice was to play on the better 15u team than the just good 16u team, LOL! |
|
|
|
wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2018 : 11:42:13
|
| It really depends on your kid and your goals for baseball. If your goal is to play SEC/ACC type baseball then you better be playing with your class and be able to excel there. That's not gonna happen for most kids. Be realistic, set goals that push your kid but are attainable, and yes "have fun". If they aren't having fun then they won't continue to play anyway. All kids and abilities are different. If you speak honestly with your kid and find out what their goals truly are with baseball(the kids probably have a better idea of their current talent level than the parents because we are all biased), the answer will probably be clear which route is best. I have 2 boys and they play for very different reasons, so our approach to the game is very different with each of them. |
Edited by - wareagle on 07/31/2018 13:10:34 |
|
|
|
HustlePlay
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2018 : 20:36:32
|
| Kent, was your response to CaCO3 meant to be as condescending as it came across? I would hope not. |
|
|
|
bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2018 : 21:34:36
|
As I’ve said in the past, you do what’s best for you and yours. With that said, I would say play with your grade if at all possible. If you are playing on a top team at your age, then you won’t have a problem finding a top team to play on with your grade. Whatever you decide, playing time is and should be the most important factor. You are not getting better on the bench.
|
|
|
|
bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2018 : 06:49:07
|
I would also recommend that if you have a kid that is really young for his grade and he is not getting a lot of interest from colleges, then drop him down to next years class. Now this will depend on a lot of factors, mostly being, has he matured yet. There are a lot of late bloomers and that one extra year could be the difference between no scholarship and a D1 scholarship.
Again, you will hear many different opinions on this subject, but you do what is best for you and yours. |
|
|
|
KentMurphy
96 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2018 : 08:10:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by HustlePlay
Kent, was your response to CaCO3 meant to be as condescending as it came across? I would hope not.
It was a tongue-in-cheek comment. But her comments about it not being 'fun' and not playing with his friends just struck a cord... If it came across as rude to or directly condescending, I apologize. If anything, I could think of a dozen people closer to me the directness was pointed towards. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2018 : 08:22:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
As I’ve said in the past, you do what’s best for you and yours. With that said, I would say play with your grade if at all possible. If you are playing on a top team at your age, then you won’t have a problem finding a top team to play on with your grade. Whatever you decide, playing time is and should be the most important factor. You are not getting better on the bench.
My experience was that there were many people in my sons age year that knew him. They had played against him, with him, watched him make a great catch, almost a buzz if you will. When he moved up to his grade for one year he had to fight for everything. He eventually got there but it didn't have the same feel and wasn't as much fun.
To the OP's question, my son played 15u as a 2020 and it worked out very well for him. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2018 : 10:14:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by KentMurphy
quote:
Originally posted by HustlePlay
Kent, was your response to CaCO3 meant to be as condescending as it came across? I would hope not.
It was a tongue-in-cheek comment. But her comments about it not being 'fun' and not playing with his friends just struck a cord... If it came across as rude to or directly condescending, I apologize. If anything, I could think of a dozen people closer to me the directness was pointed towards.
I am all about my kid having fun, I didn't take offense, I know there are people that are all about the game and I'm not one of them. I'm about my kid having fun, learning to get along with others, learning life lessons, and so on. The fact that he has been better than most kids his age while growing up has afforded him some latitude that I know many haven't had.
I did think it was hilarious that you invoked HShuler's name since he's my baseball guru as well. I even sent you an email, but you didn't reply. |
|
|
|
dad4kids
109 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2018 : 11:01:20
|
| Speaking of PBR, some of these parents should probably be drinking a lot more of them |
|
|
|
hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2018 : 10:20:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by dad4kids
Speaking of PBR, some of these parents should probably be drinking a lot more of them
LoL
So, I think players have had success doing it both ways.
Our travel team had three 2019’s playing 16U and two are committed to D1 programs. I also know a few 2020’s with summer/late b-days who are committed.
I guess it depends on the kid.
|
|
|
|
Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2018 : 15:51:26
|
We always heard the "play with your grade" thing, but I have to say that I haven't seen any evidence that it hurts to play with your age.
Quite a few of the boys my son has played with over the years "played down," and they are all doing just fine now as high school sophomores and juniors. Many of them play on very competitive travel teams and/or easily started on their high school jv teams last year (and these are strong baseball schools). These boys will no doubt play varsity as well. And, if they keep at it, they should have a fair shot at playing college ball somewhere if that's what they want to do. Frankly, for some of them, their grades are a bigger concern than the age of their travel team!
|
|
|
|
bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2018 : 08:20:21
|
When I say play with your grade, it's because come draft time, you will be compared to the players in your grade and them alone.
Each player is in a competition with every other player in their grade, whether they know it or not. This also applies to their own teammates, it's not necessarily what the team is doing, it's what each individual player is doing. This will become more evident as you get to the 16u and especially the 17u level. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2018 : 14:20:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
When I say play with your grade, it's because come draft time, you will be compared to the players in your grade and them alone.
Each player is in a competition with every other player in their grade, whether they know it or not. This also applies to their own teammates, it's not necessarily what the team is doing, it's what each individual player is doing. This will become more evident as you get to the 16u and especially the 17u level.
So this whole play with your grade thing is for draft purposes??? Seriously????
If your kid is going in the draft he's already been in multiple national events by the time he's 16, so no one would care where he plays up or down. I also know a kid who is committed to GA who plays with his age group and is considered one of the top 10 2019's in GA....playing with his age hasn't hurt him either.
if you are 16+ you already know if you are in contention for the draft. Unless by some miracle you are a pitcher who gains 10-15mph out of nowhere and then only the fastball speed will matter, not who you played with. |
|
|
|
tellit
97 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2018 : 17:46:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
When I say play with your grade, it's because come draft time, you will be compared to the players in your grade and them alone.
Each player is in a competition with every other player in their grade, whether they know it or not. This also applies to their own teammates, it's not necessarily what the team is doing, it's what each individual player is doing. This will become more evident as you get to the 16u and especially the 17u level.
So this whole play with your grade thing is for draft purposes??? Seriously????
If your kid is going in the draft he's already been in multiple national events by the time he's 16, so no one would care where he plays up or down. I also know a kid who is committed to GA who plays with his age group and is considered one of the top 10 2019's in GA....playing with his age hasn't hurt him either.
if you are 16+ you already know if you are in contention for the draft. Unless by some miracle you are a pitcher who gains 10-15mph out of nowhere and then only the fastball speed will matter, not who you played with.
I typed out a long reply blaming PG and clueless parents, but then decided it was not worth the time.
How about those Braves!
|
|
|
|
bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2018 : 22:01:21
|
Here you go again making generalized all encompassing statements, with nothing to back it up, other than your opinion. How do you know it hasn’t hurt him. Are you in all the scout meetings on players in the 2019 class? Somehow I doubt it.
|
|
|
|
bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2018 : 07:44:09
|
Everything in sports is separated out by age, grade, class, division, level....however you want to say it. In baseball, age doesn't matter in high school, college, or pro ball. Likewise, grade doesn't matter in high school or college.
So, get through the travel ball years and it won't matter.
|
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2018 : 09:06:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
Here you go again making generalized all encompassing statements, with nothing to back it up, other than your opinion. How do you know it hasn’t hurt him. Are you in all the scout meetings on players in the 2019 class? Somehow I doubt it.
I haven't been in a single scouting meeting. What I know is that 99.999% of our children aren't going in the draft and we should not be basing decisions on where our kids play around the potential of going in the draft. I mean heck, only 7.1% of all baseball players across the United States will play baseball past high school!
Here is the citation for you: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-probability-competing-college-athletics
|
|
|
|
ABC_Baseball
90 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2018 : 09:31:27
|
| At one point I thought playing with your age and having a summer birthday was an obstacle. I have been told by someone at the academy that it can be a good thing. Given my kids age, he has the ability to play a lot of baseball. So he will be with the 15u once travel ball starts after his freshman year. He will have the ability for certain events like the big PG WWBA events to drop down and help fill out the 14u roster. So it sounds like he will be able to get a lot of reps this summer. I just looked at the 2018 events. There were 6 PG 14u events between May & July. During that same time there were 5 PG 15u events. Only one tournament for each age group overlapped. TC has 5 tournaments in the same period where 14u/15u events are at the same time. |
|
|
|
bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2018 : 10:18:31
|
Here is the only factor I think should be taken into consideration in playing age or grade. College recruiters are generally looking to fill needs for the upcoming year or two. Most mid-D1, D2 and D3 schools are recruiting rising seniors over the summer. That would be 17u. They are going looking for rising seniors to recruit RIGHT NOW. They may go to some 16u tournaments, but they are just making notes for who to keep an eye out for next year. You may not even know they are interested in you because their plan is just to keep tabs. If you are a rising senior playing on a 16u team, you may miss your opportunity because the recruiter thinks you are only a rising junior. Your best chances of being approached and recruited properly is to play with your class. Recruiters look at different age groups in different ways and with a different sense of urgency.
Hope this makes sense. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Playing with class or age?
