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bballman
1432 Posts |
 Posted - 12/28/2008 : 17:01:58
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| I, for one am not saying you can't put together a highly competitive team and still have fun. My son has played on a pretty competitive travel team since he was 12 and has always had fun. As a 15 yr old freshman this year, he is still enjoying baseball. I just never worried about getting him on the most elite, high profile team out there. He played on the same team at 12, 13 & 14. Will play on a very competitive team for summer at 15u. I'm saying that, especially 8-11 and even thru 14 you shouldn't be worried about east cobb, or the astros or high profile or what ever. Let the kids play on a team that they are going to have fun on and be able to play at the highest level that they will still enjoy. Really, no one cares about what they did from 8-14. Really, the East Cobb teams don't mean anything until you reach 15 or 16. Even then, if you are playing on a team that competes against them, you will get seen. The objective, at least in my mind is to keep your kid competitive and most of all interested in and excited about baseball thru that point where performance does matter - high school. |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2008 : 00:20:30
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I, for one am not saying you can't put together a highly competitive team and still have fun. My son has played on a pretty competitive travel team since he was 12 and has always had fun. As a 15 yr old freshman this year, he is still enjoying baseball. I just never worried about getting him on the most elite, high profile team out there. He played on the same team at 12, 13 & 14. Will play on a very competitive team for summer at 15u. I'm saying that, especially 8-11 and even thru 14 you shouldn't be worried about east cobb, or the astros or high profile or what ever. Let the kids play on a team that they are going to have fun on and be able to play at the highest level that they will still enjoy. Really, no one cares about what they did from 8-14. Really, the East Cobb teams don't mean anything until you reach 15 or 16. Even then, if you are playing on a team that competes against them, you will get seen. The objective, at least in my mind is to keep your kid competitive and most of all interested in and excited about baseball thru that point where performance does matter - high school.
BBALL : you hit it square on the head !
The Astros name is marketing , prior to 15s it just gets folks in to their park hoping to get on the team maybe not now but later.
The physical and mental difference from a 12 or 13 to a 15 is wider than whatwe have room here to go on about 
Your right too that no one who is seriously looking at players wants to hear about 13 and 14s its just not good expenditure of their time. 15s is truly where it all starts and then youve got 3 or 4 years of that.
Have fun learn the game stay positive respect your opponent and over everything else be a good teammate not just out there for yourself. You can be amazed later what these qualities of character did for your future in and out of the game ! |
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homerunking
110 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2008 : 08:57:46
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Well for what it's worth here's my 2 cents.
Most of the kids that started playing travel ball wanted something more than REC. Once they got a taste of travel ball and started winning they liked it more. Then come the teams that EVERYONE is talking about..After a few years of playing on OK teams someone sees a kid and says why don't you come play with us. PARENTS want the best for their kids, and if they can afford it they will get it. KNOXVILLE STARS are probably the best kids in KNOX and surrounding cities playing on one team...With this TRAVEL BALL SELECT raking list everyone want to play on a team thats on the list in some form shape of fashion...If PARENTS would understand that every year they BREAK up good teams in some cases cause because they are not happy or feel that the coach didn't know ENOUGH..So all this of talking about it doesn't matter at the 8-12 doesn't matter...it DOES. This is the age where you have the most turnover. The kids are having FUN, spending the night with teamates, going out to eat after games, ect....But the parents are the ones that want that ELIETE satus!!!!!!!!!!! So in the END that parents what the TEAM GA not the kids...And the PARENTS bring their kids to ECB to maybe get a GOOD look at by some scout.None of these kids can drive before 16 so most of the team choosing is done by the PARENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2008 : 20:14:47
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Bballman,
So is your statement that playing at ECB at the 8-12 age group does not mean anything?
I have to disagree with you |
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2008 : 22:28:10
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The thing is, there are kids that like the East Cobb program and flourish in it, including being on the Astros teams, under the age of 15 or 16. There are always kids that play in the program one year, and decide to go somewhere else next year, just like there are always players that join the program from somewhere else each year. It almost seems like if you are outside the EC program you argue that you don't need to be there to succeed and if you are in it, you try to argue the benefits of being there. Both are right, because the program is not the "ALL" for every kid, but it is right place for many kids. There is no where else my son would rather be, and contrary to popular belief, he is a big part in the decision process.
(Ok, maybe Southern California where it is warm all the time.  ) |
Edited by - greglomax on 12/30/2008 09:34:33 |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 08:15:38
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quote:
Originally posted by BBall123
Bballman,
So is your statement that playing at ECB at the 8-12 age group does not mean anything?
I have to disagree with you
What I read in his statement is that 8-12 doesn't have much impact on or predict success in High School and beyond. East Cobb is a fabulous facility and tournaments there are as a rule, top notch, but being on an East Cobb team in those age groups is not that much different than being at any other park with the same benefits, risks, rewards and drawbacks.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 08:54:38
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| Depends on what you mean by anything. If your son is on a good team with good coaches, then of course it means something. I just don't think it's worth MORE than being on a good team with a good coach anywhere else. I don't mean to be bashing ECB. They have a great program that has developed a national reputation. I just think that for the younger ages, that national reputation doesn't do you a whole lot of good. Like I said, if you play on a good team with a good coach, that is great. The object is to develop as a baseball player so that once you reach HS you will be well prepared. You just don't have to play at ECB to do that. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 09:35:46
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Guilty as charged! I confess to wanting to have my son on the best team around, and I've been a repeat offender for 15 seasons now. And, your right, until last season, my son hasnt really cared if he was on an Elite team, or not. Its been about me... wanting him to be exposed to the best players, the best Coaches, and the best competition. He's had fun all along the way. Plus he's passed by every kid who stayed behind at our home park. This Spring, I let him decide where to play for the 1st time.
I'm also guilty of wanting Georgia (not just East Cobb) to have the best 8-12 year old teams in the U.S.. Having one of the top High School prep programs is great, but I want more.
I should start a new topic called true confessions!
quote:
Originally posted by homerunking
Well for what it's worth here's my 2 cents.
Most of the kids that started playing travel ball wanted something more than REC. Once they got a taste of travel ball and started winning they liked it more. Then come the teams that EVERYONE is talking about..After a few years of playing on OK teams someone sees a kid and says why don't you come play with us. PARENTS want the best for their kids, and if they can afford it they will get it. KNOXVILLE STARS are probably the best kids in KNOX and surrounding cities playing on one team...With this TRAVEL BALL SELECT raking list everyone want to play on a team thats on the list in some form shape of fashion...If PARENTS would understand that every year they BREAK up good teams in some cases cause because they are not happy or feel that the coach didn't know ENOUGH..So all this of talking about it doesn't matter at the 8-12 doesn't matter...it DOES. This is the age where you have the most turnover. The kids are having FUN, spending the night with teamates, going out to eat after games, ect....But the parents are the ones that want that ELIETE satus!!!!!!!!!!! So in the END that parents what the TEAM GA not the kids...And the PARENTS bring their kids to ECB to maybe get a GOOD look at by some scout.None of these kids can drive before 16 so most of the team choosing is done by the PARENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Learnpatience
69 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 09:48:30
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I don't think bballman or anyone else on this post said that it doesn't matter if the kids 8 - 12 play at ECB or not. What they said is that it doesn't matter who is the best at that age. It is entirely irrelevant and impossible to determine. There are 10X as many kids playing baseball at those ages than at the high school level.....all wannabees whose dads and moms live vicariously through them. Daddy did not play in high school but always had the dream to do so. Why not push Johnny in that direction and make him a big "star"?
Allstar hit it dead on. ECB is a nice facility, but certainly it can not be said that the best players (8 - 12 years old) play there.
Perhaps we should get off our high horses and realize that the cream will rise to the top when the time is right. 8 - 12 years old is not that time. |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 11:02:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Learnpatience
I don't think bballman or anyone else on this post said that it doesn't matter if the kids 8 - 12 play at ECB or not. What they said is that it doesn't matter who is the best at that age. It is entirely irrelevant and impossible to determine. There are 10X as many kids playing baseball at those ages than at the high school level.....all wannabees whose dads and moms live vicariously through them. Daddy did not play in high school but always had the dream to do so. Why not push Johnny in that direction and make him a big "star"?
Allstar hit it dead on. ECB is a nice facility, but certainly it can not be said that the best players (8 - 12 years old) play there.
Perhaps we should get off our high horses and realize that the cream will rise to the top when the time is right. 8 - 12 years old is not that time.
Well stated , I would add that it is not " that time " either up through the 14 years old teams .
15s is where in reality it begins and really counts .
But dont blame the East Cob people for trumping up a team name though in reality it may not mean a lot more than another team name in another park or there park once they get on the field.Its just good business .
Best of holidays to everyone  |
Edited by - coachdan06 on 12/30/2008 12:14:38 |
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baseball99
89 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 12:20:16
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So bmoser, what did your son choose and why do you think he chose what he did?
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
Guilty as charged! I confess to wanting to have my son on the best team around, and I've been a repeat offender for 15 seasons now. And, your right, until last season, my son hasnt really cared if he was on an Elite team, or not. Its been about me... wanting him to be exposed to the best players, the best Coaches, and the best competition. He's had fun all along the way. Plus he's passed by every kid who stayed behind at our home park. This Spring, I let him decide where to play for the 1st time.
I'm also guilty of wanting Georgia (not just East Cobb) to have the best 8-12 year old teams in the U.S.. Having one of the top High School prep programs is great, but I want more.
I should start a new topic called true confessions!
quote:
Originally posted by homerunking
Well for what it's worth here's my 2 cents.
Most of the kids that started playing travel ball wanted something more than REC. Once they got a taste of travel ball and started winning they liked it more. Then come the teams that EVERYONE is talking about..After a few years of playing on OK teams someone sees a kid and says why don't you come play with us. PARENTS want the best for their kids, and if they can afford it they will get it. KNOXVILLE STARS are probably the best kids in KNOX and surrounding cities playing on one team...With this TRAVEL BALL SELECT raking list everyone want to play on a team thats on the list in some form shape of fashion...If PARENTS would understand that every year they BREAK up good teams in some cases cause because they are not happy or feel that the coach didn't know ENOUGH..So all this of talking about it doesn't matter at the 8-12 doesn't matter...it DOES. This is the age where you have the most turnover. The kids are having FUN, spending the night with teamates, going out to eat after games, ect....But the parents are the ones that want that ELIETE satus!!!!!!!!!!! So in the END that parents what the TEAM GA not the kids...And the PARENTS bring their kids to ECB to maybe get a GOOD look at by some scout.None of these kids can drive before 16 so most of the team choosing is done by the PARENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 21:01:49
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| If you researched kids that are playing on the 14, 15, and 16 year old ECB top teams, I bet maybe 1 played at ECB as an 8 or 9 year old. |
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 10:07:04
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Ok, let's recap:
1) The main objective for kids 8-12 is to learn the game, enjoy playing it, be on a team that helps them develop and teaches them good fundamentals.
2) Where a kid plays is not nearly as important as how well #1 is executed.
3) In the older age groups East Cobb has developed a National Powerhouse status due to all the National Championship accumulated.
4) Not playing at East Cobb does not guarantee that you will not be seen, anymore than playing at EC will guarantee you play great and automatically are seen.
Did I miss anything? |
Edited by - greglomax on 12/31/2008 14:38:40 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 15:36:19
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Sounds like you are taking things to an extreme BBall123. No one said any of that. There is nothing wrong with playing at ECB. Only thing anyone is saying is that for the younger age groups, you don't have to play there. Personally, my son never tried out there. I am sure that he could have played on any number of teams there over the years. He didn't because he liked the team he was on. Did my son not get the experience he should have because he did not play at EC? No. Did your son waste his time by playing over there? Certainly not. Is my son going to be at a disadvantage at HS tryouts this year because he didn't play ECB? I wouldn't think so. It will come down to on field performance. Period.
Nothing wrong with playing at ECB - nothing wrong with not playing at ECB either. Don't take it so personal. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 17:49:11
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| I wasn't trying to say, it was a waste of time. I was merely saying if a kid can play, he can play. I have seen kids play rec ball until middle school and become great hs players and still make college teams. I have seen kids play at EC and not be that great in hs. Some ended up being better in College some never made it past hs. Alot of the kids that play on the older EC #1 teams arent even from GA. They pick up the best kids in the southeast sometimes and thats why they are a powerhouse. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 18:44:22
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He chose the team he played Summer travel with. "they're fun, I said I would do it with them, and they're actually decent"
That's an exact quote. Here's what I read into his answer. This team has team activities outside of baseball. Pool parties, Braves games ect. They also chant, which my son likes. There are no bullies on the team, and there are some very smart and mature for their age kids, and my guess is they asked him to return to play again, and he said he would. They won a trophy at States, and he's all about filling up his trophy case. His last team went 3-16 and he's not up for that again.
He had a chance to play for the best 10U team in our County, but just didnt have enough time to bond with them or show them what he can do. That team was my choice, but from now on, its his choice. AAA is probably a better fit for him anyway due to his late April birthdate and average size.
He's a hard throwing lefty who plays year round, so he'll have his chance to play Majors at some point if he chooses.
I hope I did the right thing by him. Tiger Woods's Dad would not have done what I did but every kid is different.
quote:
Originally posted by baseball99
So bmoser, what did your son choose and why do you think he chose what he did?
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
Guilty as charged! I confess to wanting to have my son on the best team around, and I've been a repeat offender for 15 seasons now. And, your right, until last season, my son hasnt really cared if he was on an Elite team, or not. Its been about me... wanting him to be exposed to the best players, the best Coaches, and the best competition. He's had fun all along the way. Plus he's passed by every kid who stayed behind at our home park. This Spring, I let him decide where to play for the 1st time.
I'm also guilty of wanting Georgia (not just East Cobb) to have the best 8-12 year old teams in the U.S.. Having one of the top High School prep programs is great, but I want more.
I should start a new topic called true confessions!
quote:
Originally posted by homerunking
Well for what it's worth here's my 2 cents.
Most of the kids that started playing travel ball wanted something more than REC. Once they got a taste of travel ball and started winning they liked it more. Then come the teams that EVERYONE is talking about..After a few years of playing on OK teams someone sees a kid and says why don't you come play with us. PARENTS want the best for their kids, and if they can afford it they will get it. KNOXVILLE STARS are probably the best kids in KNOX and surrounding cities playing on one team...With this TRAVEL BALL SELECT raking list everyone want to play on a team thats on the list in some form shape of fashion...If PARENTS would understand that every year they BREAK up good teams in some cases cause because they are not happy or feel that the coach didn't know ENOUGH..So all this of talking about it doesn't matter at the 8-12 doesn't matter...it DOES. This is the age where you have the most turnover. The kids are having FUN, spending the night with teamates, going out to eat after games, ect....But the parents are the ones that want that ELIETE satus!!!!!!!!!!! So in the END that parents what the TEAM GA not the kids...And the PARENTS bring their kids to ECB to maybe get a GOOD look at by some scout.None of these kids can drive before 16 so most of the team choosing is done by the PARENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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dblinkh1
39 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 15:59:17
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| I am continually amazed at the amount of animosity toward ECB. Like it or not ECB brings much deserved attention to baseball in this area. The benefit is that you don't have to be on a ECB team to take advantage of the exposure they bring. When ECB starts closing their tournaments to only ECB teams then you can start complaining. Since they are willing to take on all comers and share the exposure then more power to them. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 18:23:06
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| I have not heard one negative comment about ECB on this thread. Come back and point out one negative quote made about ECB that has been made. I myself have made a number of positive comments about ECB. The only thing that has been pointed to is that you don't HAVE to play there especially in the younger age groups. Not that it is bad to play there or that no one should play there, just that it is not a necessity. How is that negative? |
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2009 : 10:16:31
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bballman,sorry if I sounded to negative or took that to an extreeme (probably did) but at ECB we do get and hear some criticism or negativity towards us and the program from time to time,you get that in any area of life when you are in the forefront. the comments made just hit me the wrong way and my fingers were faster than my judgement . Certainly you dont have to play at ECB to be succesful and anywhere your son is learning ,honing his skill and having fun is great! but So is ECB, Lets just play ball and have fun with it :-)
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
Sounds like you are taking things to an extreme BBall123. No one said any of that. There is nothing wrong with playing at ECB. Only thing anyone is saying is that for the younger age groups, you don't have to play there. Personally, my son never tried out there. I am sure that he could have played on any number of teams there over the years. He didn't because he liked the team he was on. Did my son not get the experience he should have because he did not play at EC? No. Did your son waste his time by playing over there? Certainly not. Is my son going to be at a disadvantage at HS tryouts this year because he didn't play ECB? I wouldn't think so. It will come down to on field performance. Period.
Nothing wrong with playing at ECB - nothing wrong with not playing at ECB either. Don't take it so personal.
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Edited by - BBall123 on 01/05/2009 19:24:46 |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2009 : 11:44:40
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quote:
Originally posted by dblinkh1
I am continually amazed at the amount of animosity toward ECB. Like it or not ECB brings much deserved attention to baseball in this area. The benefit is that you don't have to be on a ECB team to take advantage of the exposure they bring. When ECB starts closing their tournaments to only ECB teams then you can start complaining. Since they are willing to take on all comers and share the exposure then more power to them.
I said earlier that ECB tournaments are top notch as is the facility.
There is a sort of buyer beware aspect to their younger teams (8-12), though. In each age group there are probably 1 or 2 elite teams.
In one age group last year 2 or 3 of them were playing basically AA/lower AAA schedules. A couple of them hardly played in the EC tournaments of which there was one virtually every weekend.
That's fine, I just wonder if that is how the ECB experience was sold to the players and their parents.
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2009 : 00:08:00
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quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by dblinkh1
I am continually amazed at the amount of animosity toward ECB. Like it or not ECB brings much deserved attention to baseball in this area. The benefit is that you don't have to be on a ECB team to take advantage of the exposure they bring. When ECB starts closing their tournaments to only ECB teams then you can start complaining. Since they are willing to take on all comers and share the exposure then more power to them.
I said earlier that ECB tournaments are top notch as is the facility.
There is a sort of buyer beware aspect to their younger teams (8-12), though. In each age group there are probably 1 or 2 elite teams.
In one age group last year 2 or 3 of them were playing basically AA/lower AAA schedules. A couple of them hardly played in the EC tournaments of which there was one virtually every weekend.
That's fine, I just wonder if that is how the ECB experience was sold to the players and their parents.
For years: in ALL age groups : maybe 2 teams in each age group play at a major level usually just 1.
Last year we know the same age group you probably refer to had half the teams at aa to low low aaa.
A mistake not to make is play a major level schedule when you dont have the talent : just to "keep up".
Thats when your season quick becomes no fun. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2009 : 08:06:12
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No problem 123. I have been trying very hard on this thread to not bash ECB. We have played a lot of tournaments there and certainly know that the the top teams there - particularly at 15 up are something special. My son had the opportunity to play on a very good summer team this coming year - not out of ECB. The coach of the team coached out of ECB for many years before leaving. However, we will play many tournaments at ECB. If something happens with this team, ECB is the next place we would go. Bottom line, other than Perfect Game or other showcases, ECB is the place to play in tournaments to be seen. Quality program with high profile tournaments.
The only thing I have always wondered about though is if you play for one of the lower tier teams as a younger player, will that have a negative impact on possibly making a top team when you get to HS age? Will the 16 year old Astros want to take a kid who played on one of the above mentioned AA/lower AAA teams coming up through the program? I don't know, but have always wondered. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2009 : 10:10:57
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quote:
Originally posted by coachdan06
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by dblinkh1
I am continually amazed at the amount of animosity toward ECB. Like it or not ECB brings much deserved attention to baseball in this area. The benefit is that you don't have to be on a ECB team to take advantage of the exposure they bring. When ECB starts closing their tournaments to only ECB teams then you can start complaining. Since they are willing to take on all comers and share the exposure then more power to them.
I said earlier that ECB tournaments are top notch as is the facility.
There is a sort of buyer beware aspect to their younger teams (8-12), though. In each age group there are probably 1 or 2 elite teams.
In one age group last year 2 or 3 of them were playing basically AA/lower AAA schedules. A couple of them hardly played in the EC tournaments of which there was one virtually every weekend.
That's fine, I just wonder if that is how the ECB experience was sold to the players and their parents.
For years: in ALL age groups : maybe 2 teams in each age group play at a major level usually just 1.
Last year we know the same age group you probably refer to had half the teams at aa to low low aaa.
A mistake not to make is play a major level schedule when you dont have the talent : just to "keep up".
Thats when your season quick becomes no fun.
Couldn't agree more. Again, my only point was whether or not the kids and parents who sign up for one of the non-elite ECB teams understand that 1) they are not signing up for an elite, or even an average Major, team and 2) they will probably be playing in Ellijay and Ringgold as much as at EC.
Nothing wrong with either 1) or 2) as long as everybody is going in with their eyes open. |
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2009 : 10:54:04
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bballman,
I see it being similar to business. If you work for a company, you probably have a little more insight to the growth opportunities that lie within the company and may see job postings earlier than externally advertised, if externally advertised at all.
If a VP has a big project, they will look for the best possible people to execute the project. That may be internal, but could require external requirements as well. Being on the inside, many times, provides extra opportunities to show your abilities. Externally you may only get one interview to show all you have. Some times that is enough, other times it may not be.
Now you may be a highly talented individual and blow the VP away with your interview, or maybe you have consulted with the company before so they already have seen your talent and abilities.
Maybe you are an internal employee and are doing work that is completely away from the requirements for the project. You may not ever get your talents seen. You may submit a resume for a position but may never get an interview because your listed experience is not what the project is looking for.
Either way there are no guarantees. You just have to decide which is the better path for you and make a gameplan when you get on that path. |
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biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2009 : 12:39:53
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| Two factors have contributed to the decision I have made not to play EC. Ist $$$$$$ 2nd If u really want your child to excel, wouldn't they improve more playing against the best then being the best. Lets face it, if the average major team plays a top notch ECB team, they are going to see great pitching, fielding, hitting, power and team speed. However, the top notch ECB team may not see a team comparable to there talent. The pitching, hitting and defense is simply weaker. As a result the elite team may play down to the comp. I know the Astros play an aggressive national schedule which allows them to play against the best teams in the nation. Again, this cost $$$$$. The next best thing to do on a limited budget is to play in EC Tournaments against top notch teams. We have managed to play an aggressive Majors division schedule from age 7 to 14 by paying no more than 600 hundred dollars a yr for tournaments and uniforms. (not including cooperstown years) |
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Building a National powerhouse
