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Punishers
688 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2018 : 15:29:12
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I see a lot of teams talk about development a lot, but the reality is they are looking for the best players they can find, so there is no development. None of these teams are willing to take the time and work it requires to develop a player. If that was the case there would be no need to try outs. Too many are trying to build super-studded teams at youth to feed their and parents egos.
This false narrative of development has turn so many away from playing the sport. Just look at how many teams are looking for players. A good coach should not have a problem in turning a not so good player who has the hustle and will into a stud. If they can't do that, they are not good coaches. Just liers. PERIOD. |
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RBIKING
39 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2018 : 16:54:53
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I always thought the development lie was a way for coaches
to justify why a certain kid is playing a position when
there are 3 kids better than him. |
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SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2018 : 18:46:36
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There is a lot of truth to this. I do believe that there are good coaches out there though. Not every coach has what it takes to develop players, but there are some that do. The time span is relatively short to fully develop a player, but it is what it is. The good coaches know that and they just do the best they can with the time they have.
My son has played travel ball for 10 years. We have had some good coaches and bad over the years. What I have learned is this: Once they reach 15U, you must get hooked up with the coaches that have the credentials on paper and the reputation to follow it. Folks will recognize it when they find the right coach. It's night and day difference.
The pay off is quite simple..., results. I watched a 15U coach with my son over a 2 month span make a couple adjustments with him in the infield and it was huge. He has played like a different person ever since. My point is others has had plenty of opportunities with my son, but the coaches who know what they are doing can get the job done. |
Edited by - SuperStar on 01/22/2018 20:13:11 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 07:38:34
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Not all kids are mold-able. I knew a boy who wanted to play like a super star SOOOO bad, but his body wouldn't cooperate. He worked hard, tried very hard to do what the coaches told/showed him, and even tried to get outside lessons in fielding to MAKE his body move in the way the sport was demanding, it didn't work, that was 12u, once his body grew his fielding got better. His body just wasn't ready to do what his brain asked.
I know another kid who is a senior in high school who wants to pitch hard. He does all the work outs, does all the lessons he can, works out on his own, he's still around 75. Why? It isn't that he isn't putting in the work, it's that sometimes a body can only do what it can do.
I know another 15u boy, known him for years. He's had good coaches, his parents would get him any lesson he wanted to go to, but the kid is a punk. You can have all the talented coaches in the world but if your kid thinks he knows better and/or won't make the changes being suggested that isn't on the coach. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 09:17:13
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I'm sure that this applies to many coaches/teams. But not all for sure. My son played travel ball from 12 to 18 and every team he played on had coached that developed. Coincidence? No. I was picky about where he played. He had opportunities to play on bigger name teams, but we didn't like the coach's approach. Before he and I decided what team to play on, we interviewed the coach about his philosophy, development, game approach, pitching plan, etc... We turned down several offers on big name teams to play on other teams in which development was more of a concern and focus. Can the coaches lie about what they are going to do? Of course. But you, as a parent, need to be able to see through the BS and help your son get on a team that is actually going to develop.
Of course coaches are going to want the best players they can get. That is not mutually exclusive from wanting to also develop kids. Be discerning about where your kid winds up playing. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 10:46:27
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| A lot of these coaches still have in their mind that the bigger kids are better players. Maybe for football or basketball, but more skilled players excel in baseball. This just shows me the coaches inability to judge skill while only looking at size. Just a pure lack of willing to develop players. Using lame excuses for development and a players size just highlights that's the team not to waste time with. The top 2019 SS in GA is 5'9" and 145lbs a for sure 1st round draft pick, been told by many coaches that he was too small. Looks like they were wrong just like the current coaches now. |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 11:42:32
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5-9, 145, He better eat some biscuits if he is going to play SS. They may move him to 2B, but maybe they see he will still grow.
Can you tell us who this player is or what HS he attends. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 12:04:50
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| Nasim Nunez |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 13:47:56
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At the younger age groups, like 12u, it's the kids who are bigger that throw harder and generally hit harder. Since my kid was one of the 5'7 12u kids I can attest to that. Now of course the 200 pound 12u kid isn't a good bet, but I'll generally take a 5'7/120# kid over a 4'9/80# kid in the strength department.
Sorry, I'm having a hard time believing that the top SS in the 2019 class is that small.
The 16u Astros SS and 2B are 6'1/175#'s and 6'3/208#'s, both are 2019's, and both are Committed to impressive colleges.
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 14:04:44
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| He's ranked by PG as the 3rd SS in Ga, but as we know rankings are somewhat flawed. He will definitely stay at short, he's 93 MPH across the infield and runs a 6.4, he also can make any play with any arm angle. The only tool he lacks is power. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 14:14:34
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quote:
Originally posted by 743
5-9, 145, He better eat some biscuits if he is going to play SS. They may move him to 2B, but maybe they see he will still grow.
Can you tell us who this player is or what HS he attends.
https://www.perfectgame.org/Players/PlayerProfile.aspx?ID=455754
93 MPH INF, 6.43 60. (I'm assuming this is who he's referring to-- the Clemson commit.) |
Edited by - turntwo on 01/23/2018 14:32:13 |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 14:14:50
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| Check out Nasim Nunez. Those numbers are real. 93 across the diamond and kid 70lbs heavier can barley hit 80. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 14:42:08
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quote:
Originally posted by bama21
He's ranked by PG as the 3rd SS in Ga, but as we know rankings are somewhat flawed. He will definitely stay at short, he's 93 MPH across the infield and runs a 6.4, he also can make any play with any arm angle. The only tool he lacks is power.
Don't need big power that will come with strength program. For now jyst backspin the ball, get on base and drive in runs. |
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BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 15:08:58
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| Looks like there may be hope after all for my 5'7 130# son! |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 15:32:30
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He's gained 10 pounds, lol, those most be some very wiry arms indeed! However, Punishers, I'm going to have to go with he is the exception to the rule. The rule is usually bigger = stronger. There are the spuds Mckenzies of the world, but they are the exceptions, not the usual.
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SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 16:04:59
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| Impressive no doubt, but not normal. I can't believe he is throwing it 93 mph across the infield. That is crazy! He must be super human! |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 16:23:39
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
He's gained 10 pounds, lol, those most be some very wiry arms indeed! However, Punishers, I'm going to have to go with he is the exception to the rule. The rule is usually bigger = stronger. There are the spuds Mckenzies of the world, but they are the exceptions, not the usual.
Bigger = Stronger is an illusion not a rule.
I dont think he is an exception. Just not what some would consider the norm. Skill and ability will always outweigh size. Big doesn't mean strong. It just means big. Being strong is an illusion of size.
There are a lot of big vehicles with small engines. They will always be behind a smaller vehicle with a big engine..
A lot of these big kids have small hearts and abilities, can't support their own weight. That's the illusion. |
Edited by - Punishers on 01/23/2018 17:05:37 |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 16:32:33
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quote:
Originally posted by 743
5-9, 145, He better eat some biscuits if he is going to play SS. They may move him to 2B, but maybe they see he will still grow.
Can you tell us who this player is or what HS he attends.
I'm sure he will be able to afford all the biscuits he wants with his signing bonus. Might be able to send you a few at your 9 to 5. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 16:46:14
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| There were a lot of youth coaches that told Billy Hamilton he was too small, but they couldn't put him out at 1B on a bunt and couldn't jack the ball up anywhere near CF. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 17:26:03
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quote:
Originally posted by SuperStar
Impressive no doubt, but not normal. I can't believe he is throwing it 93 mph across the infield. That is crazy! He must be super human!
Normal is an assumption. We all know what we get when we assume. LOL. Normal doesn't get drafted in the 1st round. Normal doesn't get you a full ride offer as a freshman. Normal doesn't you invited to play at showcases.
You can keep your Normal because that's all they ever will be. Just Normal.
Super human? Maybe. LOL. Just a product had hard work, the right training and development to enhance the already skills and abilities that many claim his statue was a limitation. |
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SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2018 : 19:11:12
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I agree with you on normal. No one wants normal because 90% of kids are normal. You have to be above and beyond if you want to play D1 ball. Also, it is true on training and working out. Hard work and dedication pays off in the long run. There has never been any room for laziness in achieving goals.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2018 : 08:03:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
He's gained 10 pounds, lol, those most be some very wiry arms indeed! However, Punishers, I'm going to have to go with he is the exception to the rule. The rule is usually bigger = stronger. There are the spuds Mckenzies of the world, but they are the exceptions, not the usual.
Bigger = Stronger is an illusion not a rule.
I dont think he is an exception. Just not what some would consider the norm. Skill and ability will always outweigh size. Big doesn't mean strong. It just means big. Being strong is an illusion of size.
There are a lot of big vehicles with small engines. They will always be behind a smaller vehicle with a big engine..
A lot of these big kids have small hearts and abilities, can't support their own weight. That's the illusion.
People would rather have the Ferrari with the pinto engine, than a pinto with a Ferrari engine.
If a kid doesn't pass the eye test he will have to be at least twice as good to get the same attention, and some coaches will still say NOPE! Are their unusual diamonds that don't fit the molds, yes. But let's not live in an idealistic world here. Let's not sell the idea that a kid who doesn't pass the eye test won't have a much harder time getting looks. Let's not pretend that with outstanding coaching and hard work every 5'9 kid can be an all American baseball player, they can't.
The body can only do what it can do. That is what defines special, when the body does more than other bodies can, and that has far more to do with genetics than it does a coach. I know several 10th graders throwing over 90, several other kids have followed the same regiment, had the same coaches, but they aren't throwing more than 80-85...why....genetics people.
One of the biggest lies in youth baseball told by a coach is "I made that kid into a first round pick"....no! A kid doesn't get to be a stud without the kid working their ass off, practically giving up their childhood, and good genetics. I've seen high draft kids and top D1 kids work out, they bust their butts until they have nothing left and then they do it again. That's not the coach, that's the kid. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2018 : 09:34:47
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| 155! looks like he packed on some muscle. Speaking of 155 there were kids on one of my trainees 10u team last spring that were over 155. Of course they were slow, could not steal, limited to playing only 1 position and had to hit to LF to get on 1B, and that was even a close play. I remember going to one tournament to watch and saw this, they were batting in the top of the line up. Easy outs if they did hit. First, I was amazed at the attitude of the coaches. They were cursing at kids like there were adults. Of course 3 dads were coaching. Took me less than 1 inning to see this was not a good environment for any parent to let their kid play for. Rumor was it was the best team the coach ever had, hard to tell. Only pitched 4 kids, once of the coach's kids could only pitch in championship games, adding in pickup players to a roster of 17 and playing them ahead of the regular players. I just told the trainee's dad to find another team to finish the season or just train. There was no need to play in that type of environment, it would only ruin the kid. Can't say the team name but they had UGA themed colors. |
Edited by - Punishers on 01/24/2018 09:44:36 |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2018 : 10:21:15
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| Hard to believe that little guy is a possible 1st round draft pick...tell that to Pedroia, Altuve, Stroman, or Rollins..or of old, Yogi Berra or Phil Rizzuto. Do they have to work harder than the rest to prove their worth? Sure, but that makes them even better in the end, people and players. In line with the development comments..a truly skilled coach will not judge until they actually see what the player has got. For development, there are a few organizations out there that truly do walk the walk and work hard to make every kid a better player. You have to do your homework as bballman points out. I agree with CaCo3 that at some point you've either got it or you don't as far as being a true stud, but every player can at least improve and attitude is HUGE. Many great players with crappy attitudes will be passed by for those slightly less skilled, but coachable team players who are willing to go the extra mile, and work hard. |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 01/24/2018 10:22:23 |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2018 : 10:47:42
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
He's gained 10 pounds, lol, those most be some very wiry arms indeed! However, Punishers, I'm going to have to go with he is the exception to the rule. The rule is usually bigger = stronger. There are the spuds Mckenzies of the world, but they are the exceptions, not the usual.
Bigger = Stronger is an illusion not a rule.
I dont think he is an exception. Just not what some would consider the norm. Skill and ability will always outweigh size. Big doesn't mean strong. It just means big. Being strong is an illusion of size.
There are a lot of big vehicles with small engines. They will always be behind a smaller vehicle with a big engine..
A lot of these big kids have small hearts and abilities, can't support their own weight. That's the illusion.
People would rather have the Ferrari with the pinto engine, than a pinto with a Ferrari engine.
If a kid doesn't pass the eye test he will have to be at least twice as good to get the same attention, and some coaches will still say NOPE! Are their unusual diamonds that don't fit the molds, yes. But let's not live in an idealistic world here. Let's not sell the idea that a kid who doesn't pass the eye test won't have a much harder time getting looks. Let's not pretend that with outstanding coaching and hard work every 5'9 kid can be an all American baseball player, they can't.
The body can only do what it can do. That is what defines special, when the body does more than other bodies can, and that has far more to do with genetics than it does a coach. I know several 10th graders throwing over 90, several other kids have followed the same regiment, had the same coaches, but they aren't throwing more than 80-85...why....genetics people.
One of the biggest lies in youth baseball told by a coach is "I made that kid into a first round pick"....no! A kid doesn't get to be a stud without the kid working their ass off, practically giving up their childhood, and good genetics. I've seen high draft kids and top D1 kids work out, they bust their butts until they have nothing left and then they do it again. That's not the coach, that's the kid.
The eye test sucks. Seen many Chryslers on the sides of roads looking good but not performing. Function over form matters. The eye test just shows how vain people really are. Everything is not what it seems.
Genetics do play a big part. If the parents were not athletes, usually the kid will not inherit those traits either. There is no amount of training that can over come genetics. This was the reason for the steroid use for HS athletes back in the day.
I read a study a few years ago where there was a test of strength vs size against same age kids with different sizes. After a few rounds a exercises, it was found that the kids that had more muscular density were stronger regardless of their size. It just so happened that 97% of those kids were on the leaner side. I'm sure we've all seen it before. Big kids that can barley pump out 10 pushups while the leaner kids can give 50 plus pushups and have more in the tank. It's like the effects of ants that can lift 50 times their body weight.
Size does not equal strength. Only people who are highly vain with simple minds think that.
The sad part is that most of these coaches who harp about size were never athletes to begin with. |
Edited by - Punishers on 01/24/2018 11:17:09 |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2018 : 11:44:19
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| This kid is a stud, but I am going to bet he either moves to 2B or Outfield when he goes to Clemson or the draft. Unless he grows 3 inches or puts on about 25 pounds. What do I know though, I am going to pull for him either way though being a Ga player! |
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The Development Lie
