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 Pulling field players
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CaCO3Girl

1556 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2017 :  07:30:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jbarley

So everyone has been on the same 14u team all year? that is a good thing but if not let us know why?



Actually, although my son played on the same team from 9u through 12u he was on 3 different teams this year.

Team #1: This was the organization he truly wanted to play for. Well respected, great development, made it through their 150 kid tryout onto one of their 3 teams and he was really looking forward to it. The first team meeting it was explained to me that the coach had 4-5 out of state tourneys he wanted to do this year...HUH? For 14u he felt strongly the team needed to travel to various locations and states, maybe play 1 PG, and end the year with a week long trip to FL. We as a family couldn't do 4-5 out of state trips this year, the 14u isn't my only kid, and I just saw no point in wasting all that hotel money when half the country travels HERE to play great baseball.

Team #2: It was a mad scramble after I opted to leave team one because it didn't fit with our family...this is when I got suckered by the used car salesman team. Lots of great promises, they all sounded so sweet, practice at an awesome place, be trained by college coaches, but nothing was delivered. After they started recruiting rec park players to build an additional 14u team (which didn't happen), when the current team couldn't seem to win against anyone, I couldn't ignore the bad feelings and left in February. They didn't refund any money, not even tourney fees.

Team #3: A local major team had told me last year that if my son was ever unhappy with his current team to give them a call. I did, and they were kind enough to pro-rate all the fees to when my son could join them after JV was over at the high school. Very nice people and my son enjoys playing with them.
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Renegade44

148 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2017 :  09:10:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In all seriousness.......too many people are quick to rush to teams 1 and 2 based on some hyped flash and salesman tactics. The travel showcase baseball world would be better off with more team 3's it would seem.

Or put another way too many of the better teams may be wrongly disappearing while the huckster salesman teams are flourishing.

Too many teams, too few talented players to go around and fill everyone's for profit business model.
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KeithB

209 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2017 :  10:02:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately, we've been on a different team every year for the last 3 years. They have all dissolved, so we didn't have a choice. Next season, we would at least like to play with some of the same players from this season. And would like to stay with the next team for at least 3 seasons.

pro coach, bad team, great development
dad coach, decent team, no development, ample opportunity
pro coach, decent team, decent development early, minimal opportunity

quote:
Originally posted by tbaillie2

quote:
Originally posted by catmando

speaking of mass exodus how many of you have even stayed on 1 team more than a year?



Mine... probably to his development detriment, but he did.

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tellit

59 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2017 :  21:00:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

I think a lot of peopled have been fooled to believe there is no resolution. Keep in mind that without your money and your kid, they do not exist. These teams need you, it's not like you need them. These guys remind me of the Nigerian Prince scam, just ask for more and more money, from tryout fees to special trainers, who are what I call failures at the game, charging insane amounts for useless training. Pay for a tryout?????? You have to be kidding me!!!! That's my 1st Red Flag. You need us, we do not need you. Nothing but crooks and thieves in my opinion. It's a cash cow for the failed.

Tryout Fee:
Registration Fee:
Walk on the Field Fee:
Pre-Fee for the New Fee:
Team Fee:
Coach Fee:
Water Fee:
Fee for bringing you own gear:
Fee for playing for another team last season:
Readiness Fee:
Fee for expecting more:
Performance Fee:
Pre-tournament Fee:
After tournament Fee:
Special training Fee by some jerk:
Dealing with youth Fee:
Cleat Fee:
Pitching Fee:
Catching Fee:
Daddy Ball Fee:

I could go on. This is all before the real cost of uniforms and tournaments come into play. No fundraisers, no 501c3, no sponsors????? It's an all cash business. Money Laundering/Ponzie scheme at it's best and worst. Ever heard of Bernie Madoff???

743: Dad coaching with kid on team. NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!! Would he be there if his kid wasn't playing?? I bet he never coached a team that his kid didn't play on.



I disagree about getting your money back part, but this post cracks me up. "Daddy Ball Fee, fee for playing for another team last season" classic.
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Vandy

18 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2017 :  11:31:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"Just because mom and dad don't discipline, doesn't mean coach shouldn't." Agreed

Focusing on the original question, the coaching up to making that decision either supports or condemns the decision.

In this scenario we are likely talking about 6, 4 or 3 with an occasional 2 or 8. All top positions with liability and touch the ball more often.

First off, attitude - If there has been a developing history of attitude from the player, he can be warned that he is on thin ice. If he is unable to keep his issue in check, pull his ass off the field. Now. Unfortunately sometimes the players' parent can help them find the way to the dugout. Same for lack of effort / laziness.

A good coach will generally see a trend in his player starting to occur. Lazy step, footwork going away, diminished range due to jump, etc, etc. You identify the issue. You work with that player. He does the same thing maybe twice in a close game and it hurt the team.. Sometimes the best thing you can do for that player is to remove him.

Unmentioned is the players' game readiness. Do his parents let him stay up till 2am playing xbox. Is he fed, hydrated, on time, mentally prepared? All of this can lead to pulling the kid off the field. It is almost never a decision that is not in some way derived from at least in part, the parents.

Pulling a field player absent of the above mid inning other than pitching is more times than not going to end badly.

Pulling a player that has a good attitude, works hard, has generally played well, but having a lousy inning is a poor decision.




Edited by - Vandy on 09/01/2017 13:17:31
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Hurricane

298 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2017 :  15:08:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As long as the coach pulls his son in the same situation I don't mind, but I have seen many let their get away with something others could not, and I have seen some pull theirs in situations that they would leave kids not their own in. As a coach coaching your son you have to treat them all the same and it is very hard from what I have seen.
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Punishers

415 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2017 :  14:34:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nothing wrong with pulling field players. They need to understand that the game is payed by minimizing errors and if a player is making 2 errors per inning, not only will they get pulled. Their playing time will be limited. Maybe a move to catcher will get their attention. Sure, the parens will complain. When they and everyone see that their kid is not performing there is not a lot that can be complained about. Having fielding and pitching rules for games help, but parents soon forget those rules.
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TaxiMom

116 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2017 :  14:27:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

Nothing wrong with pulling field players. They need to understand that the game is payed by minimizing errors and if a player is making 2 errors per inning, not only will they get pulled. Their playing time will be limited. Maybe a move to catcher will get their attention. Sure, the parens will complain. When they and everyone see that their kid is not performing there is not a lot that can be complained about. Having fielding and pitching rules for games help, but parents soon forget those rules.



"A move to catcher......"?? Is that supposed to be a punishment?
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Punishers

415 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2017 :  00:43:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TaxiMom

quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

Nothing wrong with pulling field players. They need to understand that the game is payed by minimizing errors and if a player is making 2 errors per inning, not only will they get pulled. Their playing time will be limited. Maybe a move to catcher will get their attention. Sure, the parens will complain. When they and everyone see that their kid is not performing there is not a lot that can be complained about. Having fielding and pitching rules for games help, but parents soon forget those rules.



"A move to catcher......"?? Is that supposed to be a punishment?



Nope. But it would an attention grabber position. Catchers see the whole field and entire play. From my own coaching experience, kids who play catcher usually turn into better players at other positions.

Edited by - Punishers on 09/12/2017 09:47:40
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CaCO3Girl

1556 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2017 :  07:16:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

Nothing wrong with pulling field players. They need to understand that the game is payed by minimizing errors and if a player is making 2 errors per inning, not only will they get pulled. Their playing time will be limited. Maybe a move to catcher will get their attention. Sure, the parens will complain. When they and everyone see that their kid is not performing there is not a lot that can be complained about. Having fielding and pitching rules for games help, but parents soon forget those rules.



Kids are supposed to make mistakes. It's part of the learning process. If a kid is having an off day pull him between innings, not mid inning.
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TaxiMom

116 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2017 :  12:41:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

Nope. But it would an attention grabber position. Catchers see the whole field and entire play. From my own coaching experience, kids who play catcher usually turn into better players at other positions.



Just not really following the logic of putting a player who has been making errors into the key catcher position to "grab their attention." Particularly if they have little to no experience catching. Particularly as you get to the older ages.......unless you trying to make a point with one player is more important than the game itself. Which, I'd think it wasn't, because that's why you pulled them from their field position in the first place.....
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Renegade44

148 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2017 :  13:09:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fall season must be in full swing again now! Right back where Summer/Spring left off. Little Johnny is back again for the umpteenth time taking plays off, checking out, making error after error, and his new coach at his new academy on his new higher dollar team has had enough and yanked Little Johnny off the field yet again mid inning for not being able to function as a tournament level baseball player.

And yes yet again, Little Johnny has gotten butt hurt, and his parents have yet again blamed everybody and anybody but themselves and Little Johnny.

Thank GOD! Little Johnny and his parents aren't my teams problem anymore.

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mikepayne

164 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2017 :  15:17:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44

Fall season must be in full swing again now! Right back where Summer/Spring left off. Little Johnny is back again for the umpteenth time taking plays off, checking out, making error after error, and his new coach at his new academy on his new higher dollar team has had enough and yanked Little Johnny off the field yet again mid inning for not being able to function as a tournament level baseball player.

And yes yet again, Little Johnny has gotten butt hurt, and his parents have yet again blamed everybody and anybody but themselves and Little Johnny.

Thank GOD! Little Johnny and his parents aren't my teams problem anymore.




"Butt hurt" that is my phrase. If anyone is getting yanked off the field in the first tournament, it may be a long season for you and your kid. Pulling kids off mid-inning is a last resort, or at least it should be.
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Punishers

415 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2017 :  17:33:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TaxiMom

quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

Nope. But it would an attention grabber position. Catchers see the whole field and entire play. From my own coaching experience, kids who play catcher usually turn into better players at other positions.



Just not really following the logic of putting a player who has been making errors into the key catcher position to "grab their attention." Particularly if they have little to no experience catching. Particularly as you get to the older ages.......unless you trying to make a point with one player is more important than the game itself. Which, I'd think it wasn't, because that's why you pulled them from their field position in the first place.....



No way I would put him at catcher if he never played it before. If a kid was right handed he always got his turn playing catcher as well as pitching on any team I coached. Mistakes will be made, but 2 in the same inning and if it's routine ground ball plays, it's time for a change. A good coach will make adjustments even if it is in mid-inning.

The only thing little Johnny is learning is not how to perform when it counts when he is left in the same position and making the same mistakes. Not a bad thing, just means he is playing on a team above his level or performance. Some things you can't politic your way out of. Performance is still one of them.
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Punishers

415 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2017 :  17:36:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mikepayne

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44

Fall season must be in full swing again now! Right back where Summer/Spring left off. Little Johnny is back again for the umpteenth time taking plays off, checking out, making error after error, and his new coach at his new academy on his new higher dollar team has had enough and yanked Little Johnny off the field yet again mid inning for not being able to function as a tournament level baseball player.

And yes yet again, Little Johnny has gotten butt hurt, and his parents have yet again blamed everybody and anybody but themselves and Little Johnny.

Thank GOD! Little Johnny and his parents aren't my teams problem anymore.




"Butt hurt" that is my phrase. If anyone is getting yanked off the field in the first tournament, it may be a long season for you and your kid. Pulling kids off mid-inning is a last resort, or at least it should be.



Can't get with your phrase, but I totally understand and agree with you and Renegade44. It will be a long season for a lot who are not consistent performers.
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Vandy

18 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2017 :  22:20:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"Maybe a move to catcher will get their attention."
Yeah, I'm not feeling this.

Makes no sense to put a problem at the most key position on the diamond. Identify the problem and fix it. If you can't then either you shouldn't be coaching or the kid is at a position he is not skilled for. Bad days are bad days, plain and simple.
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tellit

59 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2017 :  14:42:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A big part of this game is how you handle the bad days.
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Crazyforbball

261 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2017 :  17:23:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I go back to working all this out in practice! Coach should know who can do what and own it when he puts a kid where he doesn't belong. We all know this can be very effective as well to demonstrate to Johnny's parents, who insist he is the ss, why he is, in fact, not the ss. Might take an error or two to cement this. As for pulling a kid mid inning, on a high school age team, yes, if necessary for the win. Pulling a littler kid for an error, no, unless due to blatant disinterest or disrespect. 12-14, iffy depending on the team. Unless you are on a high majors team in a critical bracket play game, not necessary..let them learn and adjust. If he's on the high majors team and having a bad day, he will likely understand why he was pulled and be ok with it.

Of course catcher runs the field, key and critical spot to play. Perhaps could be seen as "punishment" on those early coach pitch team's where, ironically the weakest player goes, and if your kid has always played 2B to do nothing at catcher could be "eye opening" but once we've moved to kid pitcher, obviously your catcher is hands down one of the most important positions. Don't think I'd put anyone there without having practiced that spot though..surely a game ending move. Again, all VERY age, and level of play, specific..the approach to this mid inning stuff.

Edited by - Crazyforbball on 09/13/2017 19:19:38
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Punishers

415 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2017 :  20:18:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball

I go back to working all this out in practice! Coach should know who can do what and own it when he puts a kid where he doesn't belong. We all know this can be very effective as well to demonstrate to Johnny's parents, who insist he is the ss, why he is, in fact, not the ss. Might take an error or two to cement this. As for pulling a kid mid inning, on a high school age team, yes, if necessary for the win. Pulling a littler kid for an error, no, unless due to blatant disinterest or disrespect. 12-14, iffy depending on the team. Unless you are on a high majors team in a critical bracket play game, not necessary..let them learn and adjust. If he's on the high majors team and having a bad day, he will likely understand why he was pulled and be ok with it.

Of course catcher runs the field, key and critical spot to play. Perhaps could be seen as "punishment" on those early coach pitch team's where, ironically the weakest player goes, and if your kid has always played 2B to do nothing at catcher could be "eye opening" but once we've moved to kid pitcher, obviously your catcher is hands down one of the most important positions. Don't think I'd put anyone there without having practiced that spot though..surely a game ending move. Again, all VERY age, and level of play, specific..the approach to this mid inning stuff.



We all know that SS is reserved for the coaches son. LOL. Keep in mind that I am thinking from a high majors team where placing players who can play specific positions the best matters. There is always a 1, 2, and 3 for options at every position.

Nothing wrong with experimenting in pool play games when there is no class level. (Unless the coach wants to get the buy). Bracket play is a different story. Of course the coach wants to be able to play players in different positions, but liabilities must be limited in order to advance.

Edited by - Punishers on 09/13/2017 21:17:36
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Crazyforbball

261 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2017 :  13:03:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
^^^^yep. Lol...Domingo Ayala "coach's kid" one of his all time best!
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turntwo

794 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2017 :  15:51:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball

^^^^yep. Lol...Domingo Ayala "coach's kid" one of his all time best!



..."Why don't you just sale your glove? You could sale it as brand new, it's never made a play"...
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Crazyforbball

261 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2017 :  21:06:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"You could put a chair at short stop it make more plays than your kid!" LOL. "Come on! Make a play one tyne!"

Edited by - Crazyforbball on 09/15/2017 21:13:54
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