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bama21
278 Posts |
 Posted - 07/21/2017 : 10:04:22
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Baseball is a game of failures, so why add to it unnecessarily. Also, at the end of the day, his coach still wants to win, so he may disagree with you on that.
I have said this many times in replying on this board, TO EACH HIS OWN. |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2017 : 11:34:55
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I like to scream "Get them next time!" and "Oh You almost had that one" and "Nothing you could do about that one" and "It'll be alright".
Q: Where does this put me on the list?
A: Way down the left field line by my choice so I don't have to hear any of this type nonsense from the PC crowd.
Personally I can not stand to sit anywhere near the infield. Cause I hear the cookies and cream excuses which irritate me just about as much as the bleacher coaches often in direct conflict with the coach instruction.
Play hard, play right, quit the excuses, own the mistakes, or quit wasting other players time. Too many of you guys have turned baseball into some sort of soft country club social event.
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Bombernation
51 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2017 : 11:42:17
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quote:
Originally posted by bama21
Baseball is a game of failures, so why add to it unnecessarily. Also, at the end of the day, his coach still wants to win, so he may disagree with you on that.
I have said this many times in replying on this board, TO EACH HIS OWN.
As long as we are at it, can we address the "nobody better here, kid"? If there is nobody better three kids in a row..... |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2017 : 12:40:31
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quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
If you work with your son, like I'm sure most of us do. You know his swing better than he does. So, if you are watching and you see him not doing something correctly, what do you do? Should I say something, should I not? It's a simple fix, a couple words spoken and voilà, it is corrected. Will the coach get mad, what will the other parents say, are there scouts watching? Maybe you should continue to let him fail because he is old enough now to know better, why is he still doing that, we worked on it...why isn't his coach saying something?
Well, we've all been there, if not, you will be. I choose to say something, it could be the difference between hitting a homerun or striking out. Again, in moderation and with tact, there is nothing wrong with speaking up.
Actually, I do believe that you should let him strike out rather than hit a homerun in that scenario. Then after the game you can discuss the at bat. He'll learn a hell of a lot more from that than Daddy having to remind him to "see the ball late" every AB. Parents should not be coaching from outside the lines. You can call it whatever you want; reminder, tips, trigger, etc., but you can't deny that it's coaching.
And it's great that you know your tendencies and swing better than the coach. At the youth level, you should, but more importantly, your kid should learn and know his tendencies better than anyone. That comes from having successes and failures on the field.
Get out of your kids head during games and be amazed at what THEY are capable of acheiving.
For older kids this is my inclination as well. If they are going to make it, they have to make it on their own and know what went wrong. If I were a college coach looking at a kid I would have to wonder if he made the adjustment on his own or did mom/dad's analyses have him changing his swing to a more successful approach? Too bad for the kid if he made the adjustment on his own.
The younger kids could use the occasional "stepping out" comment from mom or dad and having a true coach at that age is rare. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2017 : 12:48:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
I like to scream "Get them next time!" and "Oh You almost had that one" and "Nothing you could do about that one" and "It'll be alright".
Q: Where does this put me on the list?
A: Way down the left field line by my choice so I don't have to hear any of this type nonsense from the PC crowd.
Personally I can not stand to sit anywhere near the infield. Cause I hear the cookies and cream excuses which irritate me just about as much as the bleacher coaches often in direct conflict with the coach instruction.
Play hard, play right, quit the excuses, own the mistakes, or quit wasting other players time. Too many of you guys have turned baseball into some sort of soft country club social event.
It really has turned into a social club type event. Will not end until the tournament dirs end the multi bracket crap. Then everyone will see when they face a real competitive team and get sent home with the guaranteed games they paid for. The rec programs will flourish again when reality sets in. Until that time happens, it's bronze/copper brackets, juice boxes and snacks for everyone.
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5 necklaces 4 armbands
40 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2017 : 16:20:50
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quote:
It really has turned into a social club type event. Will not end until the tournament dirs end the multi bracket crap. Then everyone will see when they face a real competitive team and get sent home with the guaranteed games they paid for. The rec programs will flourish again when reality sets in. Until that time happens, it's bronze/copper brackets, juice boxes and snacks for everyone.
this ^
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2017 : 19:26:41
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quote:
Originally posted by 5 necklaces 4 armbands
quote:
It really has turned into a social club type event. Will not end until the tournament dirs end the multi bracket crap. Then everyone will see when they face a real competitive team and get sent home with the guaranteed games they paid for. The rec programs will flourish again when reality sets in. Until that time happens, it's bronze/copper brackets, juice boxes and snacks for everyone.
this ^
YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP!!! |
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9Y3Dogs
12 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2017 : 08:13:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by 5 necklaces 4 armbands
quote:
It really has turned into a social club type event. Will not end until the tournament dirs end the multi bracket crap. Then everyone will see when they face a real competitive team and get sent home with the guaranteed games they paid for. The rec programs will flourish again when reality sets in. Until that time happens, it's bronze/copper brackets, juice boxes and snacks for everyone.
this ^
YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP!!!
...and get off my lawn you whippersnappers.
You guys are hilarious. I am guessing your parents/grandparents were saying the same thing about how soft you and all of the kids you played with were, and yet, somehow, someway, baseball has survived. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2017 : 00:46:22
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quote:
Originally posted by 9Y3Dogs
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by 5 necklaces 4 armbands
quote:
It really has turned into a social club type event. Will not end until the tournament dirs end the multi bracket crap. Then everyone will see when they face a real competitive team and get sent home with the guaranteed games they paid for. The rec programs will flourish again when reality sets in. Until that time happens, it's bronze/copper brackets, juice boxes and snacks for everyone.
this ^
YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP!!!
...and get off my lawn you whippersnappers.
You guys are hilarious. I am guessing your parents/grandparents were saying the same thing about how soft you and all of the kids you played with were, and yet, somehow, someway, baseball has survived.
Nope. We were more active. |
Edited by - Punishers on 07/24/2017 21:18:14 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2017 : 09:00:53
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quote:
Originally posted by 9Y3Dogs
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by 5 necklaces 4 armbands
quote:
It really has turned into a social club type event. Will not end until the tournament dirs end the multi bracket crap. Then everyone will see when they face a real competitive team and get sent home with the guaranteed games they paid for. The rec programs will flourish again when reality sets in. Until that time happens, it's bronze/copper brackets, juice boxes and snacks for everyone.
this ^
YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP!!!
...and get off my lawn you whippersnappers.
You guys are hilarious. I am guessing your parents/grandparents were saying the same thing about how soft you and all of the kids you played with were, and yet, somehow, someway, baseball has survived.
Has it REALLY though? |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2017 : 11:43:54
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| I enjoy nothing more than heckling parents that are going nuts in the stands. My favorite line is to tell them to yell louder they obviously didn't hear them since the kid didn't look at him. |
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bfriendly
376 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2017 : 20:31:47
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by 9Y3Dogs
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by 5 necklaces 4 armbands
quote:
It really has turned into a social club type event. Will not end until the tournament dirs end the multi bracket crap. Then everyone will see when they face a real competitive team and get sent home with the guaranteed games they paid for. The rec programs will flourish again when reality sets in. Until that time happens, it's bronze/copper brackets, juice boxes and snacks for everyone.
this ^
YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP!!!
...and get off my lawn you whippersnappers.
You guys are hilarious. I am guessing your parents/grandparents were saying the same thing about how soft you and all of the kids you played with were, and yet, somehow, someway, baseball has survived.
Has it REALLY though?
HHmmm perhaps not in all its glory. There are places where everyone will get a trophy. Shoot, I bet there are places where they really dont even keep score Survive perhaps, but thrive? HHmmm I wonder |
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9Y3Dogs
12 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2017 : 22:24:00
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HHmmm perhaps not in all its glory. There are places where everyone will get a trophy. Shoot, I bet there are places where they really dont even keep score Survive perhaps, but thrive? HHmmm I wonder
[/quote]
If the kids have found better, more exciting things to do than play baseball, I seriously doubt that "everyone getting a trophy" is the biggest problem facing the future of baseball. It's impossible to compare today to the "way things used to be" because things are very different now. The kids who want to play and see a silver/bronze/aluminum championship as a failure and work hard to get better to either play on the higher level teams or do what they can to help their own team will be the successful players. Those are the same types of kids who, 30 years ago, played with the rec team in the summer but also were begging their parents to go the batting cages or throwing the ball against the wall or playing waffle-ball with their friends every chance they could. They loved the game, not the trophies.
Those kids are always going to exist - those that love the game and want to play and achieve greatness.
The "everybody gets a trophy" canard is a distraction from the terrible job we as adults do to instill a love of the game. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2017 : 07:17:09
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| ^^^^^this,yes. At the end of the day it's the kid suiting up, not the parent. As with everything in life, if his heart's not in it he'll never have long term success, trophy or not. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2017 : 08:36:05
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quote:
Originally posted by 9Y3Dogs
HHmmm perhaps not in all its glory. There are places where everyone will get a trophy. Shoot, I bet there are places where they really dont even keep score Survive perhaps, but thrive? HHmmm I wonder
quote:
If the kids have found better, more exciting things to do than play baseball, I seriously doubt that "everyone getting a trophy" is the biggest problem facing the future of baseball. It's impossible to compare today to the "way things used to be" because things are very different now. The kids who want to play and see a silver/bronze/aluminum championship as a failure and work hard to get better to either play on the higher level teams or do what they can to help their own team will be the successful players. Those are the same types of kids who, 30 years ago, played with the rec team in the summer but also were begging their parents to go the batting cages or throwing the ball against the wall or playing waffle-ball with their friends every chance they could. They loved the game, not the trophies.
Those kids are always going to exist - those that love the game and want to play and achieve greatness.
The "everybody gets a trophy" canard is a distraction from the terrible job we as adults do to instill a love of the game.
That is a bigger problem in my opinion. You don't try to instill a love of the game into kids, they either love it or they don't. When I brought my then 6 year old to fall ball assessments in his jeans, and with his Walmart bat and glove, I wasn't trying to instill anything, I was seeing how he liked baseball. If he didn't like baseball the next sport on the list was soccer, which he had also shown an interest in. It turned out he adored baseball from day one and we upgraded from the Walmart bat and glove, but that was because of how HE felt about the sport, not me.
From 12u up I have seen time and time again the parent being the one obsessed with baseball and the kid could care less. The kid becomes more and more withdrawn, doesn't want to be at practice, and is ticked when he has to miss a party on a Saturday night for bracket play. This isn't a kid who adores baseball, this is a kid who hasn't found his voice yet to tell his parents he doesn't want to play baseball. Sometimes even when the kid manages to express his feelings the parents tell him he can't quit, they have invested too much money for him to quit now....get a clue. That kid will never make it because he doesn't love the game.
You can't make a kid love baseball. It's too time consuming, and it's too much effort. They have to love it on their own.
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TaxiMom
149 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2017 : 09:17:06
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quote:
Originally posted by 9Y3Dogs
The "everybody gets a trophy" canard is a distraction from the terrible job we as adults do to instill a love of the game.
Have one kid who played soccer from age 6-14. Gave him every opportunity to "love the game." Offered extra workouts. Offered to go watch professional games. Were supportive in every way. Although he wanted to continue playing all of those years, he never developed a "love of the game" and quit going into high school. Kid now is in marching band, and LOVES it, practicing all aspects of marching technique at home even after hours of practice at school......
Have other kid who plays baseball. We did NOTHING to instill a love of the game when he was little, except sign him up for rec teams. Yet he became baseball obsessed at 7 years old (practicing his swing all over the house, sleeping with his glove, etc) and never looked back.
I don't think a parent can instill a love of the game....either the kid is going to love it, or they're not. And if they don't, parents need to recognize that and encourage the child to go in another direction, whether it be to a different sport, or art, or music, or whatever. To tie it back to the original purpose of this thread, YELLING at them while they play would make them hate the game, not love it. If you have to yell at them to get them to put in effort, then they don't belong on that field.
And in my opinion, baseball is dying because it's so slow. In the day and age of the internet, video games, etc, kids want instant gratification and movement. They don't have the attention span and patience for baseball. I think we've lost a lot of our baseball kids to lacrosse and other faster paced games (especially those like football where there's a greater chance at playing at a higher level). Unfortunately, I don't see that changing in the near future...... |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2017 : 09:44:22
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| I agree with a lot of what TaxiMom said. I don't really think that you can make a kid love the game. But I DO think you can make him hate it... Remember, baseball is a game. When it comes to an end, and it will at some point for everyone, you still have to have a relationship with your kid for the rest of your life. That's much more important than whether or not your kid is pulling his head out at the plate or whether or not he missed that ground ball at short... Just sayin' |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2017 : 10:23:02
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Now at one time I thought I must get out more and see some of this youth football and lacrosse. Mostly because I was very curious to see how the kids possibly conduct themselves differently on the field.
Questions that lingered in my mind?
I've got travel soccer players that can't run more than 3 sprints or run out a double? How does that work?
I've got middle school and 7/7 camp football players that roll around shot in the dirt everytime a baseball nicks them?
I've got lacrosse players that can catch a ball with a stick apparently, but can't cleanly catch a pop fly with a glove.
I've got basketball players that can't run, jump, or reverse direction on a baseball field.
On and on and on.
I've even got young moneyed athletes who can play 2 travel sports in the same season. And to hear it they are superstars at both.
So I wonder? Can each bring a specific skill from one sport to the baseball field. Toughness? Competitiveness? Speed? Hand eye coordination? Conditioning? Just general desire? Anything?
So out I go to watch a game or two at these "other" sports. Granted I am no expert on them, but I just wanted to watch the actions of the player. See that athlete in action!
Nah its the same old coddled player I see at most every baseball academy team. Cookies and cream for everyone. Rolling around in dirt every bump. Standing around instead of running. Same pouting. Same entitlement. Same checked out attitude and mannerisms if not winning.
Same story, same kids, just a different country club travel sport. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2017 : 10:53:43
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Lol Renegade. You're right, these kids aren't athletes, they are just playing sports cuz it's something to do. Maybe their parents make them do it, maybe it contributes to their popularity meter in school, maybe they like it ok, but regardless if it's entitlement or not, they simply don't have the drive, or real desire, to move on. I doubt any of those kids are going to be willing to give up a Friday night party or a date with a hot girl to put in those extra reps on the field or time in the gym. A truly driven athlete is a rare breed of boy. You can see them at the 17U PG National Championship top 25 or so teams, all together, all in 1 place. Yep, it's a different breed. No rolling in the dirt, no dropped balls, total focus, no love of the game instilling trophies required, no entitlement attitude, no parents yelling playing commands. These guys have the drive and love the game all by themselves. They are competitors. My son loves to go watch those guys play. Gives him a goal to work towards and an idea of just HOW competitve it is.
And Taxi Mom, I agree completely. Baseball requires a tremendous amount of focus, and is most definitely not for the instant gratification crowd. |
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rj44
1 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2017 : 12:45:31
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| All discussion for the most part is positive, but this thread has lost it's bearings. It changed when yelling at your kids on the field was justified with the response that "I'm making my kid tough" instead of coddling him in this PC world of everyone gets trophies. Couldn't be further for the truth from what I've seen. The entitled and coddled world is problematic. Equally, or even more so, is the kid who has been conditioned that he doesn't need to learn how to personally deal with conflict or problem solve, or "fight is own battles". From what I've seen the kids who have the parents that are constantly yelling at them are the same kids that look over at their parents after every pitch or play in the field etc. What does this teach the kid other than you need my response/reaction before and after everything you do. If a kid never learns how to deal with baseball/life problems without your input their adjustment into adulthood will be as problematic as the coddled and entitled kids you are railing against. Both are "problems" with the world today. I am confused how some can bash the parents who create an environment that results in coddled and entitled kids while supporting the environment that creates kids who have been conditioned to rely solely on their parents to deal with every issue that pops up on the baseball field and in life. Both are problematic aren't they? |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2017 : 14:14:55
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The true athlete is out there, but there are a lot of pretenders as well. Many high schools do physical drills BEFORE the kid is even allowed to tryout for the HS baseball team. One HS says "If you can't run an 8 minute mile, do NOT show up for tryouts"....every year they run the mile and every year several don't make it. Then the parents come on here or other boards to moan and complain about how unfair it is. My son had a lot of pretty bad reports on how 9th-12th handled the physical exertion. Those who didn't handle it well didn't make the team.
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brball
615 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2017 : 16:33:59
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
The true athlete is out there, but there are a lot of pretenders as well. Many high schools do physical drills BEFORE the kid is even allowed to tryout for the HS baseball team. One HS says "If you can't run an 8 minute mile, do NOT show up for tryouts"....every year they run the mile and every year several don't make it. Then the parents come on here or other boards to moan and complain about how unfair it is. My son had a lot of pretty bad reports on how 9th-12th handled the physical exertion. Those who didn't handle it well didn't make the team.
Where did the 8 minute thing come from? Some coach in Detroit? ha
I googled average time to run a mile and this popped up:
No conclusive evidence exists on “average” 1-mile run times, because there is no scientifically agreed-upon average runner. Opinion varies widely, but most anecdotal evidence places the average between seven and 10 minutes per mile for a non-competitive, in-shape runner.
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2017 : 19:14:58
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quote:
Originally posted by brball
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
The true athlete is out there, but there are a lot of pretenders as well. Many high schools do physical drills BEFORE the kid is even allowed to tryout for the HS baseball team. One HS says "If you can't run an 8 minute mile, do NOT show up for tryouts"....every year they run the mile and every year several don't make it. Then the parents come on here or other boards to moan and complain about how unfair it is. My son had a lot of pretty bad reports on how 9th-12th handled the physical exertion. Those who didn't handle it well didn't make the team.
Where did the 8 minute thing come from? Some coach in Detroit? ha
I googled average time to run a mile and this popped up:
No conclusive evidence exists on “average” 1-mile run times, because there is no scientifically agreed-upon average runner. Opinion varies widely, but most anecdotal evidence places the average between seven and 10 minutes per mile for a non-competitive, in-shape runner.
That means a real athlete should have no problem running an 8 min or less mile. It's not like the coach is asking for a 5 min mile that a conditioned runner would be able to do. Looks like the coach is testing for stamina. I know 10 yo's that can run an 8 min mile.
Maybe parents can yell at their kids from the car to run faster as they go thru conditioning.
A friend I played in college with coaches a high school team and his tryouts consists of 40yd times. If they can't run a 4.7sec 40 or less, chances are they will not make the team since he focuses more on stealing than HR's for offense. |
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bfriendly
376 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2017 : 20:11:48
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by 9Y3Dogs
HHmmm perhaps not in all its glory. There are places where everyone will get a trophy. Shoot, I bet there are places where they really dont even keep score Survive perhaps, but thrive? HHmmm I wonder
quote:
If the kids have found better, more exciting things to do than play baseball, I seriously doubt that "everyone getting a trophy" is the biggest problem facing the future of baseball. It's impossible to compare today to the "way things used to be" because things are very different now. The kids who want to play and see a silver/bronze/aluminum championship as a failure and work hard to get better to either play on the higher level teams or do what they can to help their own team will be the successful players. Those are the same types of kids who, 30 years ago, played with the rec team in the summer but also were begging their parents to go the batting cages or throwing the ball against the wall or playing waffle-ball with their friends every chance they could. They loved the game, not the trophies.
Those kids are always going to exist - those that love the game and want to play and achieve greatness.
The "everybody gets a trophy" canard is a distraction from the terrible job we as adults do to instill a love of the game.
That is a bigger problem in my opinion. You don't try to instill a love of the game into kids, they either love it or they don't. When I brought my then 6 year old to fall ball assessments in his jeans, and with his Walmart bat and glove, I wasn't trying to instill anything, I was seeing how he liked baseball. If he didn't like baseball the next sport on the list was soccer, which he had also shown an interest in. It turned out he adored baseball from day one and we upgraded from the Walmart bat and glove, but that was because of how HE felt about the sport, not me.
From 12u up I have seen time and time again the parent being the one obsessed with baseball and the kid could care less. The kid becomes more and more withdrawn, doesn't want to be at practice, and is ticked when he has to miss a party on a Saturday night for bracket play. This isn't a kid who adores baseball, this is a kid who hasn't found his voice yet to tell his parents he doesn't want to play baseball. Sometimes even when the kid manages to express his feelings the parents tell him he can't quit, they have invested too much money for him to quit now....get a clue. That kid will never make it because he doesn't love the game.
You can't make a kid love baseball. It's too time consuming, and it's too much effort. They have to love it on their own.
True that........and that goes for pretty much everything.
Even yelling doesn't help.........it must be self satisfying then if we keep doing it. Stop yelling!
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2017 : 22:57:37
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A family friend's kid went to the Braves tryout up at Berry College a little while back. Before the tryout started, they told the young men - we're looking for guys who run a 6.7 - 60 or throw at least 90 from the mound. He didn't run a 6.7 and went home before things even started. An ex teammate of my son from college went to a Braves tryout a few years ago. He was throwing 91-93. They told him they were looking for guys throwing 95+ and sent him home.
The higher up the pyramid you go, the more qualifying events are held. And yes, for many high schools, they do these pre-qualifying evaluations. You either do it or you don't. No amount of dad yelling or coaching from the fence is going to change that. |
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STOP YELLING AT YOUR KID!
