| Author |
 Topic  |
|
oldschool22
50 Posts |
 Posted - 07/26/2017 : 02:26:13
|
| That's an uneducated post. You then move on to the next tryout if you're cut on those grounds. There are many players who have been drafted without meeting those criteria and surely countless collegiate ball players who were offered scholarships based on other attribures. Generalizing all collegiate and professional selection processes via the actions of one college is short-sighted. |
 |
|
|
bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2017 : 08:33:21
|
Using a mile run for a baseball tryout makes no sense. The most you would have to run if you get an inside the park home run is only 360 feet, if you get 14 of those in one game, I guess the mile run makes sense. Most showcases or tryouts will use 60 times, which makes the most sense.
I would also say that very few MLB players run a 6.5 or below, you can look most up on PG and the majority are well above that, with the average being 6.7-6.9 seconds. |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2017 : 08:48:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
A family friend's kid went to the Braves tryout up at Berry College a little while back. Before the tryout started, they told the young men - we're looking for guys who run a 6.7 - 60 or throw at least 90 from the mound. He didn't run a 6.7 and went home before things even started. An ex teammate of my son from college went to a Braves tryout a few years ago. He was throwing 91-93. They told him they were looking for guys throwing 95+ and sent him home.
The higher up the pyramid you go, the more qualifying events are held. And yes, for many high schools, they do these pre-qualifying evaluations. You either do it or you don't. No amount of dad yelling or coaching from the fence is going to change that.
Ohhhh, so true. |
|
|
|
Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2017 : 09:53:40
|
| I don't think one set of standards (i.e. have to throw over 95 or go home) applies in general to the pros. I think it reflects the needs of THAT team THAT particular season. I would venture to guess each team has specific needs each year and are seeking to meet those needs. As old school said, keep trying. And do it again the next year, and the next. As far as high schools I agree...silly to judge the players on the mile, 60 is way more applicable for baseball. Short distance sprinters, not long distance endurance runners. |
|
|
|
Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2017 : 11:16:54
|
Who said they were judging your speed in a mile?
Its just to judge who is remotely in a bare minimum shape, who wants to, who won't, who can't, who quits first, who whines most, who is laziest, and who has the first parent complaining about little Johhny being worked too hard.
Its not a baseball skill test, its a test to see who you don't want around you. |
|
|
|
NF1974
62 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2017 : 11:40:53
|
I agree with Renegade. This 8 minute mile is a test to see who doesn't want it. It is a weed out test. I have no problem with it even though its not much of a test to see who can contribute to the team. As long as the players know ahead of time that they will be required to run an 8 minute mile then I think it is quite fair. If you are out of shape and need to put in the work to pass the test then you will do what is necessary to try out for the team. Does it have much to do with the actual skill set that you need to be effective-no. Can anyone say Bartello Cologne? I know that that the Braves released him but he did have a very effective career, as a pitcher, and I dare say that his 8 minute time was to run to the refridgerator and back.
A lot depends upon the coach and his philosophy and what they are looking for. |
|
|
|
Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2017 : 13:02:59
|
| I'll give one more......AFTER the mile.....see who can still function as a baseball player. Does your baseball skill hold up under the slightest stress or endurance. Or are you lethargic, slumped over, hanging on fence, and can't move? |
|
|
|
dad4kids
109 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2017 : 13:11:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by rj44
If a kid never learns how to deal with baseball/life problems without your input their adjustment into adulthood will be as problematic as the coddled and entitled kids you are railing against. Both are "problems" with the world today. I am confused how some can bash the parents who create an environment that results in coddled and entitled kids while supporting the environment that creates kids who have been conditioned to rely solely on their parents to deal with every issue that pops up on the baseball field and in life. Both are problematic aren't they?
Both are problematic but reflective of two different issues: one is control; the other indulgence. They aren't mutually exclusive. And both conflict with raising a responsible and independant adult, which should be the baseline goal for all of us.
Wait ... what am I thinking?? The basic goal is raising the next Chipper Jones. Duh!! |
Edited by - dad4kids on 07/26/2017 15:43:57 |
|
|
|
Around_the_Horn
31 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2017 : 15:00:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Who said they were judging your speed in a mile?
Its just to judge who is remotely in a bare minimum shape, who wants to, who won't, who can't, who quits first, who whines most, who is laziest, and who has the first parent complaining about little Johhny being worked too hard.
Its not a baseball skill test, its a test to see who you don't want around you.
Mr. Wells, Mr. Colon, Mr. Sabathia, and Mr. Kruk. Thank you for coming out this year. But due to your performance in the 1 mile, we will not be needing your services.
Oh,and Mr. Kruk. Please take your ball and go home. |
|
|
|
Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2017 : 23:20:39
|
| ^^^^^LOL |
|
|
|
bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2017 : 06:49:49
|
| The hardest thing to do in sports is to hit a baseball, if you can hit, you will play at every level, regardless of speed or running a mile, which is still dumb. Running long distances has no bearing whatsoever in determining what a kid can do or not do on a baseball field. Sounds like the coach should switch over to track. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2017 : 07:47:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Around_the_Horn
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Who said they were judging your speed in a mile?
Its just to judge who is remotely in a bare minimum shape, who wants to, who won't, who can't, who quits first, who whines most, who is laziest, and who has the first parent complaining about little Johhny being worked too hard.
Its not a baseball skill test, its a test to see who you don't want around you.
Mr. Wells, Mr. Colon, Mr. Sabathia, and Mr. Kruk. Thank you for coming out this year. But due to your performance in the 1 mile, we will not be needing your services.
Oh,and Mr. Kruk. Please take your ball and go home.
Have you ever looked at OLD pictures? Even WAAAAY back in the day you had to be in decent shape to get a shot. Every one of those guys was easily 100 pounds lighter when they started.
Yes, most high schools have pre-qualifying physical fitness tests. Yes, of those kids that fail the test many of the parents get ticked because "it's got nothing to do with baseball", and they make sure their kid knows that the "test" is UNFAIR and they didn't get their shot because of a silly coach and his silly rules.
|
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2017 : 09:41:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
The hardest thing to do in sports is to hit a baseball, if you can hit, you will play at every level, regardless of speed or running a mile, which is still dumb. Running long distances has no bearing whatsoever in determining what a kid can do or not do on a baseball field. Sounds like the coach should switch over to track.
I agree and disagree. Yes it is hard to hit a baseball, but if you hit it to left field and get thrown out at 1B, what good are you?
I would take a speedy player laying down a bunt and beating the 1B throw over the one who may be a slugger who looks like they chugged too many twinkies while struggling to get half way to 1B.
|
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2017 : 10:52:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
The hardest thing to do in sports is to hit a baseball, if you can hit, you will play at every level, regardless of speed or running a mile, which is still dumb. Running long distances has no bearing whatsoever in determining what a kid can do or not do on a baseball field. Sounds like the coach should switch over to track.
It determines athleticism.
1. You have a 250 pound 15u pitcher throwing 85...but he can't cover home or first because he's SLOOOOW, that's a problem.
2. You have a powerhouse hitter at 1st, but when he hits a bomb to the outfield he can't get past first base, and anyone behind him better just stay on the base until he gets to his next one, that's a problem.
3. Your best hitter is rounder than a barrel. He can't scoop at first, he can't run to a ball in the outfield, and he can barely bend over so he's unlikely to stop anything at 3rd, that's a problem.
What will fly in AAA baseball will not fly in the more competitive high schools. Parents complain, but the fact is the coach has choices and just because your kid CAN hit the ball or strike zone doesn't mean he will make the team.
Welcome to the great divide in abilities. There are 10th graders throwing 90, running sub 7 60's, and stealing on every pitch. There are also 10th graders throwing 65, running 8.5+ in the 60, and unable to steal when the coach asks them to because the high school catchers are now around 2.0 on their pop times, which means if you are running a 8.5+ 60 you are toast on the bases.
A kid MUST be athletic to play effectively in a competitive high school and beyond. It is what it is, and I don't blame the coaches for setting an athletic bar. I do blame the parents that will make every excuse in the book on why their kid was shafted. |
|
|
|
bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2017 : 11:16:36
|
| We were talking about running a mile and using it as a determining factor for baseball tryouts, not speed, the two are not the same. Of course, speed plays, but it takes all types of players with different skillsets to make a very competitive team. Also, running a mile does not make you a great athlete on a baseball field. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2017 : 13:58:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
We were talking about running a mile and using it as a determining factor for baseball tryouts, not speed, the two are not the same. Of course, speed plays, but it takes all types of players with different skillsets to make a very competitive team. Also, running a mile does not make you a great athlete on a baseball field.
Running an 8 minute mile means you are somewhat athletic. If you are not even somewhat athletic then I don't know how you can be counted on to perform on a baseball team.
It isn't just speed that is the issue, it's mobility, or lack thereof. |
|
|
|
BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2017 : 17:51:49
|
Not sure my son can run an 8 minute mile. However, he can run a sub 4-sec 30yd dash and almost sub 7-sec 60 and is pretty mobile at 13U. Is he not athletic enough to play baseball because he can't run an 8-min mile?? That is more of an endurance test than a test of mobility and athletic ability. I'm not sure Lebron James can run an 8-min mile but no one doubts his athleticism. quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
We were talking about running a mile and using it as a determining factor for baseball tryouts, not speed, the two are not the same. Of course, speed plays, but it takes all types of players with different skillsets to make a very competitive team. Also, running a mile does not make you a great athlete on a baseball field.
Running an 8 minute mile means you are somewhat athletic. If you are not even somewhat athletic then I don't know how you can be counted on to perform on a baseball team.
It isn't just speed that is the issue, it's mobility, or lack thereof.
|
Edited by - BamaDad on 07/27/2017 18:16:36 |
|
|
|
Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2017 : 19:03:10
|
| Maybe we should say the kid shouldn't be a huge, fat, clumsy lug that can't even bend over and touch his toes, but also that his time on a MILE run alone should not disqualify him if he's reasonably close and otherwise athletic on the field. It's usually the overall package, and/or if he's throwing 92 he's probably on the team regardless of that time. Don't even need to hit as a PO so who cares how fast he is? |
|
|
|
Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2017 : 22:43:30
|
| P.s. Prince Fielder of the new and Babe Ruth of the old come to mind...I doubt either could run a mile too quickly. Baseball has always been a sport of surprises..big or little, skinny or fat, there are no absolutes in baseball. Some of our all time favorite heros are the biggest surprises. One handed Yankees pitcher Jim Abbott comes to mind. Point being...no one size fits all. Sure there are general standards but there always needs to be room for exceptions! |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 07/27/2017 23:16:15 |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2017 : 07:10:43
|
A PO still has to cover 1st and home, so yes it matters how fast he can move.
The exceptions are becoming few and far between. Line up the top 10 baseball players and I don't think they are phsycially much different. Baseball has become very Stepfordlike in it's "You have to look like this and swing like this mantra".
If your kid is a 5'8 short stop he's going to have be more amazing than every SS on the planet to get a shot at a somewhat decent school, then take a crap signing bonus to get into MiLB, then still out perform everyone. However, if he's a 6'4 pitcher throwing 93 people will give him chance after chance after chance to get to a higher speed fastball.
As with most things in life, you have to look the part to get the breaks.
If your kid is running a sub 7 60 I would guess he would run a mile in under 7 minutes, maybe even 6 minutes. |
Edited by - CaCO3Girl on 07/28/2017 09:08:44 |
|
|
|
Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2017 : 18:42:15
|
| Ok, so the pitcher has to cover 1, like I said, we can eliminate the huge fat lug that can't touch his toes but I don't think he needs to run an 8 minute mile or be eliminated. If baseball is truly taking the stepford approach you describe, and every player on the field is an identical robot, people will stop watching the sport. I tend to disagree, however. Right off the top of my head, besides Prince Fielder, pitcher Carl Edwards Jr. "String bean", and Yankees 2B Torreyes come to mind. None of these guys fit the "look alike" mold. How about Astros Jose Altuve? If I stand him next to Aaron Judge I don't think they would come close to resembling eachother. And I would put them both in my "top 10"..but I guess it depends which top 10 you are referring to. As far as college recruiting I would NEVER tell my kid to quit b/c he doesn't have the "look"...I would say what I say now.."if you want it, you know what you have to do...make it happen." Surely I think they ALL have the chance to live their dream..no absolutes. I get that "in general" there is a "look", and a "standard" but I wholeheartedly reject absolutes. |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 07/28/2017 19:12:48 |
|
|
|
bfriendly
376 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2017 : 09:26:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Ok, so the pitcher has to cover 1, like I said, we can eliminate the huge fat lug that can't touch his toes but I don't think he needs to run an 8 minute mile or be eliminated. If baseball is truly taking the stepford approach you describe, and every player on the field is an identical robot, people will stop watching the sport. I tend to disagree, however. Right off the top of my head, besides Prince Fielder, pitcher Carl Edwards Jr. "String bean", and Yankees 2B Torreyes come to mind. None of these guys fit the "look alike" mold. How about Astros Jose Altuve? If I stand him next to Aaron Judge I don't think they would come close to resembling eachother. And I would put them both in my "top 10"..but I guess it depends which top 10 you are referring to. As far as college recruiting I would NEVER tell my kid to quit b/c he doesn't have the "look"...I would say what I say now.."if you want it, you know what you have to do...make it happen." Surely I think they ALL have the chance to live their dream..no absolutes. I get that "in general" there is a "look", and a "standard" but I wholeheartedly reject absolutes.
This^^ No Doubt
And well said I might add |
|
|
|
Bravemom
204 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2017 : 12:41:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by bama21
The hardest thing to do in sports is to hit a baseball, if you can hit, you will play at every level, regardless of speed or running a mile, which is still dumb. Running long distances has no bearing whatsoever in determining what a kid can do or not do on a baseball field. Sounds like the coach should switch over to track.
It determines athleticism.
1. You have a 250 pound 15u pitcher throwing 85...but he can't cover home or first because he's SLOOOOW, that's a problem.
2. You have a powerhouse hitter at 1st, but when he hits a bomb to the outfield he can't get past first base, and anyone behind him better just stay on the base until he gets to his next one, that's a problem.
3. Your best hitter is rounder than a barrel. He can't scoop at first, he can't run to a ball in the outfield, and he can barely bend over so he's unlikely to stop anything at 3rd, that's a problem.
What will fly in AAA baseball will not fly in the more competitive high schools. Parents complain, but the fact is the coach has choices and just because your kid CAN hit the ball or strike zone doesn't mean he will make the team.
Welcome to the great divide in abilities. There are 10th graders throwing 90, running sub 7 60's, and stealing on every pitch. There are also 10th graders throwing 65, running 8.5+ in the 60, and unable to steal when the coach asks them to because the high school catchers are now around 2.0 on their pop times, which means if you are running a 8.5+ 60 you are toast on the bases.
A kid MUST be athletic to play effectively in a competitive high school and beyond. It is what it is, and I don't blame the coaches for setting an athletic bar. I do blame the parents that will make every excuse in the book on why their kid was shafted.
I agree! I think it is the parents with the slow kids that are not seeing (or don't want to see) what you are saying. I didn't realize how important speed ( not talking running a 7 minute mile) has become such an asset as son has gotten older. When you have sooooo many kids who are good players and can hit the ball (skill) and field (skill for the most part) speed (nature-you have it or you don't) becomes the thing that gets the attention. I heard 643 had close to 200 kids tryout for an age group. ALL those kids can hit and field! I bet I know what separated those who got called and who didn't! |
|
|
|
Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2017 : 18:03:32
|
| Just for me anyway, to clarify, my son is lightening fast..can easily make the 8 mile, it's just the notion of absolutes on all measures that irks me. What if a kid is an out of sight fielder or insane pitcher or the best bat you've ever seen but falls a little short somewhere else? And besides, show me the team where EVERY kid has all the tools and I will show you a roster of all D1 commits. |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 07/29/2017 19:45:38 |
|
|
|
dad4kids
109 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2017 : 18:59:31
|
There are some age specific limitations to most of these points. Bigger and slower kids can get by at the younger ages with shorter base paths and smaller fields. Not so much on the big fields. There's always going to be a spot for a kid who can hit it out over 300' fences or throw 90+ but few competitive teams at 14+ are gonna settle for a kid who is HR or single, can't ever steal a base, and is a defensive liability even at 1B. And there are plenty of slow and small kids too. That's why the first part of virtually every tryout is timing in the 60. Who the heck has time to make the kids run a mile when that time doesn't matter anyway? It's not cross country.
Speed and athleticism are the difference makers. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
STOP YELLING AT YOUR KID!
