Sponsorship
Opportunities

Sponsored Links
Georgia Jackets
Cherokee Batting Range
Forsyth Grizzlies - Georgia Octane
Flush Baseball
Georgia Stars
Georgia Travel Baseball - NWBA Links
To Indexes

Cooperstown
Tournaments
Join NWBA Team Insurance
Georgia Travel Baseball - NWBA
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 NWBA Forums
 General Discussion
 Pickup Players
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Punishers

688 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2018 :  11:16:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There seems to be a growing trend with teams 12u an below using pickup players over team players. Any thoughts? I know mines.

turntwo

955 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2018 :  14:11:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With Triple Crown's announcement today, it appears it will not be as popular, as they seem to be falling in line with USSSA.
Go to Top of Page

Punishers

688 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2018 :  14:50:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just saw that. That's usually why teams get pickup players anyway. Not enough pitching depth. I don't think pickup players should bat above team players either. I just see so many things going wrong with that.

Edited by - Punishers on 02/06/2018 15:23:30
Go to Top of Page

ofs13

48 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2018 :  16:03:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo

With Triple Crown's announcement today, it appears it will not be as popular, as they seem to be falling in line with USSSA.



TC classifies D-1 as Major/High AAA & D-2 as Low AAA/High AA, so the announcement today is a little vague as to what can & can't be done.

The first rule in the announcement indicated D-2 teams can only pick up 2 "Major/D-1" players, so are they allowed to pick up as many High AAA players as they like, or does TC really mean a D-2 team can't pick up more than 2 D-1 players period (Major or High AAA)?

The second rule indicated that a "Major/D-1" player that plays down is ineligible to pitch, but are they still eligible to pitch if they pick up with a High AAA/D-1 team (most would consider that playing down)? Does it mean that a High AAA/D-1 player can pick up w/ a D-2 team and still be eligible to pitch? Or, does TC mean no D-1 player (Major or High AAA) can pitch for a D-2 team period?

Who determines Major v/s High AAA or High AAA vs Low AAA? That topic gets debated regularly on these boards (True Major v/s High Major/Mid Major/Low Major) w/ no real conclusion.
Go to Top of Page

ofs13

48 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2018 :  16:22:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

Just saw that. That's usually why teams get pickup players anyway. Not enough pitching depth. I don't think pickup players should bat above team players either. I just see so many things going wrong with that.



Your question is a good one, and the answer probably is different from team to team; however, w/ the younger age groups & parents paying the freight, it's probably hard to justify bringing in pick up players.

While I acknowledge this is usually not the case, I could see a scenario where a coach could tell the families that they were going to go with a smaller roster for the season, but would pick up players (arms/bats) for certain big tournaments where they wanted to push for a title. If that were the scenario, and everyone knows going in, then I have no problem and would bat the pick up kids in the appropriate spot in the order too. But, they would also see innings on the bench, just like the full-time roster kids.

If you're going to be short-handed due to injury or illness or maybe mom & dad decided a family vacation was more important this week, yes.

If you're taking a look at kid, b/c you have an open roster spot yes, but not the same kid every tournament.

If the coach just decides that he doesn't like the make up of his roster, so he's going to pick up players and sit the ones paying the bills, then no.
Go to Top of Page

Punishers

688 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2018 :  17:03:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ofs13

quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

Just saw that. That's usually why teams get pickup players anyway. Not enough pitching depth. I don't think pickup players should bat above team players either. I just see so many things going wrong with that.



Your question is a good one, and the answer probably is different from team to team; however, w/ the younger age groups & parents paying the freight, it's probably hard to justify bringing in pick up players.

While I acknowledge this is usually not the case, I could see a scenario where a coach could tell the families that they were going to go with a smaller roster for the season, but would pick up players (arms/bats) for certain big tournaments where they wanted to push for a title. If that were the scenario, and everyone knows going in, then I have no problem and would bat the pick up kids in the appropriate spot in the order too. But, they would also see innings on the bench, just like the full-time roster kids.

If you're going to be short-handed due to injury or illness or maybe mom & dad decided a family vacation was more important this week, yes.

If you're taking a look at kid, b/c you have an open roster spot yes, but not the same kid every tournament.

If the coach just decides that he doesn't like the make up of his roster, so he's going to pick up players and sit the ones paying the bills, then no.



A lot of coaches have been using pick up players (who play for free) and sit the ones paying the bills from what I hear.

Have to agree about the first and second situations. Pick ups are paying to play and not for free. Still not a fan of batting a pick up before a team player. That's how coaches loose teams. If the coaches developed the players they have, this would not even be a consideration. Unless he does't believe in his own skills to really develop the players he has.

Stick with what you have and make them better. Coaches want players to stick with it, but they don't want to stick with it. Hypocritical as usual. They don't believe their own BS they selling.

Edited by - Punishers on 02/06/2018 17:40:06
Go to Top of Page

SuperStar

257 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2018 :  17:53:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is definitely a touchy topic for some parents and some not. If you are a top tier player, then there is no worries, but if you are questionable, then you could easily set the bench over these pickup players. I completely understand the issues and the players paying the bills.

It's going to happen..., I read above that TC is going to determine the players (D1, D2, D3). Good luck with that. In my opinion, it still goes back to the age old decision. Put your kid on a team where he can get the most playing time and is one of the better players. Then you will be happy as a parent.

If you want them to be challenged all the time and to get better, then put them on a team that has a bunch of talent. Know going in though, that they could not see as much playing time. Every coach and team want to win as much as possible. So they are going to continuously pick up players to better the teams chances.

Right or wrong, you have to look at it from both sides of the fence. If your son is a stud, then you want to see some pickup players if they are better than the other players to improve the odds of the team. If your son is already struggling with playing time, then as a parent of coarse you don't want to see better pickup players join in on some weekends.

I get it and see it clearly all the way through. It is what it is. Just wait until they get older and get on stud travel ball teams and play in high school. Playing time is earned not guaranteed.The reality of it is this: If your goal as a parent is to see your kid make it to the next level (college baseball), then get used to seeing this happen to kids. In the big scheme of things, it makes them better.

Edited by - SuperStar on 02/06/2018 18:02:34
Go to Top of Page

Punishers

688 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2018 :  18:58:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can't blame the parents. If the coach wanted a stud team, he should have selected stud players and not take those who are on the bubble. There is a reason why those players don't want to play with him to begin with. I dont believe in Charity baseball so the coach can thump his chest to say he won a meaningless tournament. Last time I gave to Charity she was taking her clothes off, not for some other kid the coach thinks is better should play for free. I pay for my own as everyone else should. Gotta pay to play is what we've always been taught.

I dont see how sitting a roster player in lieu of a kid not on the team or paying the bills will make them better unless all the parents agree upon it.
Go to Top of Page

SuperStar

257 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2018 :  21:37:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

Can't blame the parents. If the coach wanted a stud team, he should have selected stud players and not take those who are on the bubble. There is a reason why those players don't want to play with him to begin with. I dont believe in Charity baseball so the coach can thump his chest to say he won a meaningless tournament. Last time I gave to Charity she was taking her clothes off, not for some other kid the coach thinks is better should play for free. I pay for my own as everyone else should. Gotta pay to play is what we've always been taught.

I dont see how sitting a roster player in lieu of a kid not on the team or paying the bills will make them better unless all the parents agree upon it.



Not that simple.., many times all the good players are scattered all over the place on other teams. It's easier said than done to pick a team full of great players. So most of the time, when a coach gets a chance to pick up a stud player he takes it.

You can't look at it like charity baseball. The reason why is simple. Teams play for many reasons, and one of the main reasons is to win. If that were not the case, then there would be no need to crown a champ. With that being said, this is the "reality world". Folks don't want to play on a loosing team. You know that Punishers.

Like I said above, there is an easy solution for it. Parents can either put their kid on a team with other players that are equal to them, or play above their head. Many choose to get on the best team they can and play above their head..., and why? Simple, they want to be on a winning team.

One more thing. You said you don't see how sitting a kid makes them better. You are right it does not make them better to sit them. Playing on a team with better talent makes them better. Because in the long run, it pushes them to be better and they learn that everyone doesn't get to be a "starter" on a team as they get older.

Edited by - SuperStar on 02/06/2018 23:17:25
Go to Top of Page

tellit

97 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  01:25:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kids are so unpredictable 14u and younger it will not be easy to determine who is a major player and who is not. TC is swerving out of their lane trying to rank pre-puberty kids.
Go to Top of Page

CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  07:52:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have no proof of this, but I suspect this is how it works. At the beginning of the season a team needs to register with triple crown. All the players parents are sent releases, and assigned to that team. That team will then be dubbed a D1, D2, D3 team, and your kids will be locked into that being their level. So if you are on a D1 team, but sit all the time, you can't drop down to a AAA and pitch that weekend. This could force parents to be realistic about their kids level. Also, it keeps the teams from bringing in stud pitching, just because their buddy is free not playing that weekend. This could be interesting.

As to the pick up player batting....that's a question to ask your coach prior to the season. Will you do no pick up players, and carry 15? Frequently pick up players and carry 12? Occasional pick up players for big tourneys only? I know when my son is a pick up player it isn't worth my time and gate fee if he's going to pitch 3 innings over 3 days, and not do anything else. However, that is also something to discuss prior to picking up. Do you only need him Sunday to pitch? Are you down on kids that weekend and he will play OF in multiple games and bat? What do you need him for? In my opinion it's rude to ask someone to pick up with your team and then DH the whole time for him.
Go to Top of Page

Hurricane

351 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  09:43:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why doesn't USSSA or whatever baseball organization only allow a player to play on one team unless they get released from that team?
When my son was 11 we played against 3 different teams in 3 different championship games and one kid pitched for all three teams, my son was like how can this kid play for 3 different teams in 3 weeks?
Go to Top of Page

wareagle

324 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  10:45:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have 2 boys and have been on both sides of this situation. Personally, when a coach called and asked us to "pick Up", my first question was do you "need a player" or do you "want a player". I never really minded my son playing if a team needed a player. It was no fun for us to play with a team that just "wanted" a player and knowing that you just ticked off a group of parents so that a coach could chase a plastic trophy.

There are all types of teams, so ask questions and find the one that is the best "fit" for your child. There is not a problem with "picking up kids" as long as the coach is upfront about it BEFORE he collects your check! Sadly it usually doesn't happen that way.
Go to Top of Page

turntwo

955 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  11:01:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's a slippery slope, what T/C is doing... Who determines which team is which level? And yet further, just because a kid is a 643 Cougar (D1/Major), doesn't mean he's a stud. He could be the 11th, 13th, 16th kid on the roster, and sits more than plays, yet he would be 'ineligible' to pitch simply because of his team?

USSSA freezes their rosters after a certain date, for certain classification levels. This to avoid (in theory) 'hired guns'.

No org is perfect, in terms of protecting the integrity of the game... There will always be 'hired guns', there will always be 'sandbaggers'. As long as there are coach's out there that have their egos stroked by plastic hardware, there will be folks trying to get a 'one up' on the rest.
Go to Top of Page

Candler7

3 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  11:11:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know how it will work, but I'm all for TC or someone making an objective decision in the team's level. That's a big problem, both parents and coaches having an overinflated view of the talent level of their team. Like someone said, soooo many teams in metro and yea many have a few major level kids on the team. They also have some AA level kids on the team. But they play or think they should play D1/Major and also try to recruit (usually unsuccessfully) major talent. And that is why they look for pickup players, to compete at a level they probably shouldn't be playing. There are relatively few true Major teams top to bottom around here. I just think if teams played at their true level, it would probably be a better experience all around. But advertising "High AA/Low AAA team seeks players" doesn't "sell" like advertising "Major team seeks players", LOL.
Go to Top of Page

Candler7

3 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  11:17:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well said wareagle and turntwo, coach egos getting in way of positive development in many cases.
Go to Top of Page

tellit

97 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  12:38:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wareagle

I have 2 boys and have been on both sides of this situation. Personally, when a coach called and asked us to "pick Up", my first question was do you "need a player" or do you "want a player". I never really minded my son playing if a team needed a player. It was no fun for us to play with a team that just "wanted" a player and knowing that you just ticked off a group of parents so that a coach could chase a plastic trophy.

There are all types of teams, so ask questions and find the one that is the best "fit" for your child. There is not a problem with "picking up kids" as long as the coach is upfront about it BEFORE he collects your check! Sadly it usually doesn't happen that way.



Great points. Honest coaches, that is where it all starts for just about everything.
Go to Top of Page

Around_the_Horn

31 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  12:50:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pickup players can be a negative or a positive. The best way for a team to handle the situation is for there to be an open and frank conversation about guest players. We have seen it work out well most times.

But there was once where it was a complete cluster [luckily I can look back and laugh now]. It was at an end of the year "world series". We show up to the first game and there are kids and parents that the core team had never seen before. Start of the first game, one of these new players is on the mound and gets rocked!! Not, like chisel rocked. Not, like drill hammer rocked. But like, multiple cases of TNT rocked!!! To make it worse the dad keeps yelling, "You're doing great Jonhnny, you just keep throwing it right down the middle." It was the worst beating our team had ever been a part of. We had beat this same team many times, but we had become AA team overnight due to these "guest players". Parents stopped sitting with each other, and by the end of the tournament, I could not name a single kid playing the infield. It was also not one of those situations where no one else knew what was going on. Every team at the tournament could tell because it was open rebellion. It was a disaster. But it was quite the show. I should have sold tickets.
Go to Top of Page

Punishers

688 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  14:30:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Around_the_Horn

Pickup players can be a negative or a positive. The best way for a team to handle the situation is for there to be an open and frank conversation about guest players. We have seen it work out well most times.

But there was once where it was a complete cluster [luckily I can look back and laugh now]. It was at an end of the year "world series". We show up to the first game and there are kids and parents that the core team had never seen before. Start of the first game, one of these new players is on the mound and gets rocked!! Not, like chisel rocked. Not, like drill hammer rocked. But like, multiple cases of TNT rocked!!! To make it worse the dad keeps yelling, "You're doing great Jonhnny, you just keep throwing it right down the middle." It was the worst beating our team had ever been a part of. We had beat this same team many times, but we had become AA team overnight due to these "guest players". Parents stopped sitting with each other, and by the end of the tournament, I could not name a single kid playing the infield. It was also not one of those situations where no one else knew what was going on. Every team at the tournament could tell because it was open rebellion. It was a disaster. But it was quite the show. I should have sold tickets.



I know I would have bought one of those tickets to see that show. LOL.
Go to Top of Page

BamaDad

188 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  14:51:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ofs13

quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

Just saw that. That's usually why teams get pickup players anyway. Not enough pitching depth. I don't think pickup players should bat above team players either. I just see so many things going wrong with that.



Your question is a good one, and the answer probably is different from team to team; however, w/ the younger age groups & parents paying the freight, it's probably hard to justify bringing in pick up players.

While I acknowledge this is usually not the case, I could see a scenario where a coach could tell the families that they were going to go with a smaller roster for the season, but would pick up players (arms/bats) for certain big tournaments where they wanted to push for a title. If that were the scenario, and everyone knows going in, then I have no problem and would bat the pick up kids in the appropriate spot in the order too. But, they would also see innings on the bench, just like the full-time roster kids.

If you're going to be short-handed due to injury or illness or maybe mom & dad decided a family vacation was more important this week, yes.

If you're taking a look at kid, b/c you have an open roster spot yes, but not the same kid every tournament.

If the coach just decides that he doesn't like the make up of his roster, so he's going to pick up players and sit the ones paying the bills, then no.

This has usually been the case with teams my son has either played on or tried out for. He ended up on his current team via picking up one weekend and the coach used it as a tryout. However, one coach of a previous team picked up two players for a tourney. He started on on the mound. That kid not only got shelled on the mound but went 0-fer at the plate while leading off. Needless to say, there were several pissed parents of players who sat because of the kid. I won't be hypocritical and speak out against all pickup players since it also helped my son as well. Each situation is different.
Go to Top of Page

SuperStar

257 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  14:52:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Candler7

I don't know how it will work, but I'm all for TC or someone making an objective decision in the team's level. That's a big problem, both parents and coaches having an overinflated view of the talent level of their team. Like someone said, soooo many teams in metro and yea many have a few major level kids on the team. They also have some AA level kids on the team. But they play or think they should play D1/Major and also try to recruit (usually unsuccessfully) major talent. And that is why they look for pickup players, to compete at a level they probably shouldn't be playing. There are relatively few true Major teams top to bottom around here. I just think if teams played at their true level, it would probably be a better experience all around. But advertising "High AA/Low AAA team seeks players" doesn't "sell" like advertising "Major team seeks players", LOL.



Yes, there are many teams and many players. It is hard to please everyone and it's hard to be on a true majors team from top to bottom. But, that doesn't mean folks are not going to try. The baseball world is very similar to the new car dealership world. Everyone wants the best looking ride around town with the lowest payments possible!

Edited by - SuperStar on 02/07/2018 15:38:08
Go to Top of Page

CaCO3Girl

1989 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  15:05:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

quote:
Originally posted by Around_the_Horn

Pickup players can be a negative or a positive. The best way for a team to handle the situation is for there to be an open and frank conversation about guest players. We have seen it work out well most times.

But there was once where it was a complete cluster [luckily I can look back and laugh now]. It was at an end of the year "world series". We show up to the first game and there are kids and parents that the core team had never seen before. Start of the first game, one of these new players is on the mound and gets rocked!! Not, like chisel rocked. Not, like drill hammer rocked. But like, multiple cases of TNT rocked!!! To make it worse the dad keeps yelling, "You're doing great Jonhnny, you just keep throwing it right down the middle." It was the worst beating our team had ever been a part of. We had beat this same team many times, but we had become AA team overnight due to these "guest players". Parents stopped sitting with each other, and by the end of the tournament, I could not name a single kid playing the infield. It was also not one of those situations where no one else knew what was going on. Every team at the tournament could tell because it was open rebellion. It was a disaster. But it was quite the show. I should have sold tickets.



I know I would have bought one of those tickets to see that show. LOL.



I believe that is called tryouts for next year. Come play with the team this weekend, see how you fit in....etc.
Go to Top of Page

tellit

97 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  17:17:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl

quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

quote:
Originally posted by Around_the_Horn

Pickup players can be a negative or a positive. The best way for a team to handle the situation is for there to be an open and frank conversation about guest players. We have seen it work out well most times.

But there was once where it was a complete cluster [luckily I can look back and laugh now]. It was at an end of the year "world series". We show up to the first game and there are kids and parents that the core team had never seen before. Start of the first game, one of these new players is on the mound and gets rocked!! Not, like chisel rocked. Not, like drill hammer rocked. But like, multiple cases of TNT rocked!!! To make it worse the dad keeps yelling, "You're doing great Jonhnny, you just keep throwing it right down the middle." It was the worst beating our team had ever been a part of. We had beat this same team many times, but we had become AA team overnight due to these "guest players". Parents stopped sitting with each other, and by the end of the tournament, I could not name a single kid playing the infield. It was also not one of those situations where no one else knew what was going on. Every team at the tournament could tell because it was open rebellion. It was a disaster. But it was quite the show. I should have sold tickets.



I know I would have bought one of those tickets to see that show. LOL.



I believe that is called tryouts for next year. Come play with the team this weekend, see how you fit in....etc.



No better way for a coach to really know what kind of player they are looking at, and at the same time annoy his players and their parents. I can see why more and more coaches are paid coaches.
Go to Top of Page

Punishers

688 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2018 :  20:12:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tellit

quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl

quote:
Originally posted by Punishers

quote:
Originally posted by Around_the_Horn

Pickup players can be a negative or a positive. The best way for a team to handle the situation is for there to be an open and frank conversation about guest players. We have seen it work out well most times.

But there was once where it was a complete cluster [luckily I can look back and laugh now]. It was at an end of the year "world series". We show up to the first game and there are kids and parents that the core team had never seen before. Start of the first game, one of these new players is on the mound and gets rocked!! Not, like chisel rocked. Not, like drill hammer rocked. But like, multiple cases of TNT rocked!!! To make it worse the dad keeps yelling, "You're doing great Jonhnny, you just keep throwing it right down the middle." It was the worst beating our team had ever been a part of. We had beat this same team many times, but we had become AA team overnight due to these "guest players". Parents stopped sitting with each other, and by the end of the tournament, I could not name a single kid playing the infield. It was also not one of those situations where no one else knew what was going on. Every team at the tournament could tell because it was open rebellion. It was a disaster. But it was quite the show. I should have sold tickets.



I know I would have bought one of those tickets to see that show. LOL.



I believe that is called tryouts for next year. Come play with the team this weekend, see how you fit in....etc.



No better way for a coach to really know what kind of player they are looking at, and at the same time annoy his players and their parents. I can see why more and more coaches are paid coaches.



It could be done without annoying players and their parents if they are short and not batting ahead of roster players. Who knows what back door deals the coach is making with the parents?

I can see more non-paid coach teams adding pickups and pissing off parents, but not many true paid coach teams. The parents of the pickup would have to wonder, if they do their own rosters players like this, how will they treat mines.

Then again, these are the same coaches that loose it when their kid is sitting for a pickup player.

Edited by - Punishers on 02/07/2018 21:41:11
Go to Top of Page

Crazyforbball

391 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2018 :  08:48:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No guarantee that paid coaches equal unbiased coaching either. The world of behind the scenes deals and goodies for the coaches is alive and well there too. That said there are several organizations out there that, across the board, and with all skill levels really do walk the walk. Just a matter of seeking them out, and doing the research. And asking families on those teams!
Go to Top of Page

turntwo

955 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2018 :  10:34:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball

No guarantee that paid coaches equal unbiased coaching either. The world of behind the scenes deals and goodies for the coaches is alive and well there too.


Truer words have never been spoken!!!! "Cookies for coach", or brownies every Sunday! Or out and out payments, or the always popular hundreds or thousands of dollars spent on 'lessons' with the coach to better their playing time. It's comical.

Edited by - turntwo on 02/08/2018 10:37:20
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Georgia Travel Baseball - NWBA © 2000-22 NWBA Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000